Teacher Pension Calculator

man_no_plan

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Anyone who started after 1995 is Class A PRSI.

When you get your pension it will include the old age pension.


The going at 55 thing will apply to you or anytime before 65, if you don't have the 40 years done then you will get your pension as a fraction of that.



Simple calculation:

If you started at 22 and taught to 62 you would get full pension.

Each year is 1/80 of final salary multiplied by number of years worked.

So 1/80 * 40 = 40/80 ; pension equals half final salary.

Lump sum payment calculated same way, but calculated as 3/80 for each year worked, so max lump sum is 1.5 times final salary.

So if your final salary is 60 k, 40 years working will provide an annual pension of 30k and a lump sum of 90k.

This 30k includes the OAP of 12k.

The OAP portion is only paid out at 66 (or will be 68 by the time we retire). So if you went at 62, then your pension would be 18k as OAP won't be paid out until you are of age. But those paying the Class A PRSI are entitled to what is called the supplementary pension, which is paid in place of the OAP until you are of age. So essentially it's the same thing and you would have your pension of 30k - 18k from public service pension and 12k from supplementary pension, until you are entitled to OAP.

If you go before 40 years, you work out the fraction of that. Going to assume final pay is still the same.


35 years (going at 57 from above example) 35/80 * 40 of 60 k which would be pension of €26250 and lump sum of 78750.



I started in 2001 so would be similar.

good work!

if you go early is your pension not actuarially reduced as you'll be drawing it for longer? I'm post 04 even though I'm embroiled in a row with a different vec over subbing i did in 2002 while on TP (worth a try!)

it really os a minefield. I have found a lot of so called financial advisors to be not fantastic.

does the actuarial reduction only apply to post 04 people?

rainbowtrout

man_no_plan wrote: »

good work!

if you go early is your pension not actuarially reduced as you'll be drawing it for longer? I'm post 04 even though I'm embroiled in a row with a different vec over subbing i did in 2002 while on TP (worth a try!)

it really os a minefield. I have found a lot of so called financial advisors to be not fantastic.

does the actuarial reduction only apply to post 04 people?

Well it is in the sense that you don't have the full years done. If you only do 30 years then you've only completed three quarters of what is considered to be full service so you would only get 3/4 of what would be full pension.



As far as I know post 2004 have to work to 65 and then will get pension based on whatever service years are complete at that stage. More pertinent given that people are going into teaching slightly older - doing the dip a few years after their degree, changing careers and of course the lack of employment, hard to work up years at the start.

I don't know the full ins and outs of the actuarial reduction to post 04 as it doesn't apply to me so I haven't read up on it fully.

blueberrypie

Hi guys
I enrolled in h dip in 2003-2003. I subbed Sept-March.
I secured a mat leave contract in March 2004.
Am I classified as pre or post 2004 for retirement purposes?

I took a one year career break I assume I will have to work on an extra year.

rainbowtrout

blueberrypie wrote: »

Hi guys
I enrolled in h dip in 2003-2003. I subbed Sept-March.
I secured a mat leave contract in March 2004.
Am I classified as pre or post 2004 for retirement purposes?

I took a one year career break I assume I will have to work on an extra year.

I just looked this up blueberry pie. If you google 'post 2004 pension' it's the first link that comes up.

Post 2004 applies to anyone employed after 1st April 2004. It says post 2004 public sector workers will not be paid a pension until they are 65 and there is no compulsory retirement for them.

Looks like you are pre 04 by the skin of your teeth.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I just looked this up blueberry pie. If you google 'post 2004 pension' it's the first link that comes up.

Post 2004 applies to anyone employed after 1st April 2004. It says post 2004 public sector workers will not be paid a pension until they are 65 and there is no compulsory retirement for them.

Looks like you are pre 04 by the skin of your teeth.

What about the 1 year break though? I was told if I dropped contact with dept. paycheck for longer than 6months id be thrown into new pension scheme (like if I got employed by school privately paid).. Or is career break exempt?

newfrontier

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/lump-sums-of-over-150-000-for-five-pension-teachers-1.1891821

more teacher pension bashing ..anybody care to estimate the final salaries and how many years it took to get there!!!!

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

What about the 1 year break though? I was told if I dropped contact with dept. paycheck for longer than 6months id be thrown into new pension scheme (like if I got employed by school privately paid).. Or is career break exempt?

I think career breaks are exempt. I'd have to check. I'm on my phone I'll put up the link later. Because essentially you are still in the employment of the dept/ ETB but receiving no pay for no work for one year and an option to return to your job the following year where you left off on payscale, same contractual terms, resume a post of responsibility (where applicable). So I would assume you also retain your pension rights because you're not classed as unemployed during this time.

You are right about being put into the new scheme if you lose your job at the end of the school year and don't pick up another one for 6 months. Which is incredibly harsh the way the jobs market has gone.

Edit: if you google 'career break teacher pension' it's the first link that comes up. Point 12 in the document

http://www.cspensions.gov.ie/OverviewofPublicServicePensionSchemes.pdf

Moody_mona

Career break, maternity leave, secondments, are all exempt because they're approved leave, so you wouldn't be on the new pension scheme because of that

rainbowtrout

newfrontier wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/lump-sums-of-over-150-000-for-five-pension-teachers-1.1891821

more teacher pension bashing ..anybody care to estimate the final salaries and how many years it took to get there!!!!

I'll bite.

Ya that's easy. Plug the numbers into the calculation I did earlier on the thread.

Lump sum 150k

I'm gonna assume full service as so many teachers that are retiring now would be at full service or close to it

So lump sum is 1.5 x final salary

Salary = 100k

It's impossible to be on 100k as a regular teacher even with an A post, a degree allowance, a dip allowance, a long service allowance, a teaching in the Gaeltacht allowance and an island allowance. They do not add up to anywhere near 100k.
That would be the ultimate best case scenario I reckon!

So that means the retiring teacher has to be a DP or principal.

Assuming top of the payscale if they are at the point of retirement: 59359

Dip allowance (hons) : 1236

Degree allowance. I'm assuming hons masters here as many principals have done masters. Difference is only approx €500 anyway : 5496

Long service allowance for working 35 years : 2324

All of this adds up to 68415

Nowhere near 100k even if an A post was added in

So that indicates management. Top possible allowance for a DP is 27217 so that doesn't add up


That indicates principal. A principal in a school of 27-30 whole time staff has an allowance of 31520


So 31520 + 68415 = 99935

For back of an envelope calculations that's close enough for me

Of course the article failed to mention that only a principal could have earned such a wage and lump sum

For allowances to be taken into account for final pension and lump sum a person has to be in receipt of said allowances for 3 years. So no taking a principals job at 64 and baling out with a substantially improved pension a year later.

So that goes back to my original point. They need to be at full service or very close to it (min 38 years to make the long service payment count and in a substantially bigger school to increase principals allowance to make up for 2 year shortfall) with all those allowances to get that sort of pay out

mirrorwall14

I absolutely hate the lack of research that goes into these articles. It's ridiculous to call that person a teacher when they have to be managing a substantial school to get that salary

rainbowtrout

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I absolutely hate the lack of research that goes into these articles. It's ridiculous to call that person a teacher when they have to be managing a substantial school to get that salary

Ya and there's no point even fighting back and replying with a break down like I have done above as the response would not be 'we didn't realise it was a principal' it would be 'oh look at all the extra allowances teachers are getting '

newfrontier

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'll bite.

Ya that's easy. Plug the numbers into the calculation I did earlier on the thread.

Lump sum 150k

I'm gonna assume full service as so many teachers that are retiring now would be at full service or close to it

So lump sum is 1.5 x final salary

Salary = 100k

It's impossible to be on 100k as a regular teacher even with an A post, a degree allowance, a dip allowance, a long service allowance, a teaching in the Gaeltacht allowance and an island allowance. They do not add up to anywhere near 100k.
That would be the ultimate best case scenario I reckon!

So that means the retiring teacher has to be a DP or principal.

Assuming top of the payscale if they are at the point of retirement: 59359

Dip allowance (hons) : 1236

Degree allowance. I'm assuming hons masters here as many principals have done masters. Difference is only approx €500 anyway : 5496

Long service allowance for working 35 years : 2324

All of this adds up to 68415

Nowhere near 100k even if an A post was added in

So that indicates management. Top possible allowance for a DP is 27217 so that doesn't add up


That indicates principal. A principal in a school of 27-30 whole time staff has an allowance of 31520


So 31520 + 68415 = 99935

For back of an envelope calculations that's close enough for me

Of course the article failed to mention that only a principal could have earned such a wage and lump sum

For allowances to be taken into account for final pension and lump sum a person has to be in receipt of said allowances for 3 years. So no taking a principals job at 64 and baling out with a substantially improved pension a year later.

So that goes back to my original point. They need to be at full service or very close to it (min 38 years to make the long service payment count and in a substantially bigger school to increase principals allowance to make up for 2 year shortfall) with all those allowances to get that sort of pay out

Good detective work !!! Could be easy enough to see which principals but that does not make as good a headline does it!!! Proof of spin/teacher basher journalism for all who can do their sums!!!

aunt aggie

Armelodie wrote: »

What about the 1 year break though? I was told if I dropped contact with dept. paycheck for longer than 6months id be thrown into new pension scheme (like if I got employed by school privately paid).. Or is career break exempt?

I've been wondering the exact same thing as I just moved back from England and discovered the changes to my pension.

Would you be changed over to the new pension scheme if you work for an ETB for a year and then were employed by the Department in future role?

Really hitting teachers who have no job security already and teachers who are hoping to return to teaching profession from abroad.

rainbowtrout

aunt aggie wrote: »

I've been wondering the exact same thing as I just moved back from England and discovered the changes to my pension.

Would you be changed over to the new pension scheme if you work for an ETB for a year and then were employed by the Department in future role?

Really hitting teachers who have no job security already and teachers who are hoping to return to teaching profession from abroad.

There would be no difference moving from an ETB job to dept job or vice versa once there isn't a break of more than 6 months. You're still employed as a teacher within the state.

Going to England for a year (not on career break) and coming back will put anyone on the old pension scheme before they left into the new one on their return

aunt aggie

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There would be no difference moving from an ETB job to dept job or vice versa once there isn't a break of more than 6 months. You're still employed as a teacher within the state.

Going to England for a year (not on career break) and coming back will put anyone on the old pension scheme before they left into the new one on their return

That makes sense. Previous poster mentioned "dropping contract with dept. paycheck" which made me question the situation in ETBs.

It's a change which will definitely discourage me from applying for management roles in the future. Why take all that extra stress and workload if you're going to come out with basically the same pension as someone who chose to remain primarily a classroom teacher. That's the only bit of the job I like anyway.

rainbowtrout

aunt aggie wrote: »

That makes sense. Previous poster mentioned "dropping contract with dept. paycheck" which made me question the situation in ETBs.

It's a change which will definitely discourage me from applying for management roles in the future. Why take all that extra stress and workload if you're going to come out with basically the same pension as someone who chose to remain primarily a classroom teacher. That's the only bit of the job I like anyway.

It depends on the size of school you're on on which allowance you get. To make a substantial difference financially it would want to be a big enough school .

Also smaller school has a smaller allowance but the principal is also going to be teaching. I wouldn't say it was worth it in that situation.

evolving_doors

Just thinking..(sorry!)..could the Irish times example be a principal in primary?

Darwin

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Ya and there's no point even fighting back and replying with a break down like I have done above as the response would not be 'we didn't realise it was a principal' it would be 'oh look at all the extra allowances teachers are getting '

Don't want to drag this off-topic too much, but I'm sure Mr Fielding has a history (like his IBEC counterparts) of pontificating at every opportunity against public servants. Our 'rolls royce' pensions also happen to have rolls royce contributions which are never mentioned of course. We should not forget that he is speaking on behalf of small and medium sized enterprises who no doubt have many public servants as customers - something worth thinking about.
Back on topic, it would be very prudent of anyone doing some advance retirement planning (say 10+ years) not to assume the final lump sum will be there (or there in it's current form) - it's an obvious target in the face of the future pensions crisis this country is facing (good read here)

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Just thinking..(sorry!)..could the Irish times example be a principal in primary?

yes, because the salary scales are the same for primary and secondary. There is a difference in the scale for the principal's allowance as the top level allowance for a principal at primary level is 29776 but that's for a school with 36+ teachers and there wouldn't be a whole pile of those schools around.

But it could be a principal of a large primary school.

On the other end of that scale the allowance for a principal in a 1-5 teacher school is 9310.

blueberrypie

Thanks for answering my question on page 3.

TheDriver

That article is some load of horse c**p, nice selective statistics. We pay a lot for our pension as does private sector but its the only big plus we do get as we don't see bonuses.
the P and DP allowances aren't actually great. I got good allowance on paper for DP role at moment and barely think its worth it, its 60% marginal rate tax but with extra workload, responsibility and everything is my problem etc, i don't see myself staying at this til retirement. Classroom is much easier

rainbowtrout

TheDriver wrote: »

That article is some load of horse c**p, nice selective statistics. We pay a lot for our pension as does private sector but its the only big plus we do get as we don't see bonuses.
the P and DP allowances aren't actually great. I got good allowance on paper for DP role at moment and barely think its worth it, its 60% marginal rate tax but with extra workload, responsibility and everything is my problem etc, i don't see myself staying at this til retirement. Classroom is much easier

I remember one of my friends telling me when she worked in a small school, around 120 students, and when the principal retired they had problems getting someone to take the job, because the allowance is only a few hundred more than an A post, and there were already A post holders in the school, except now they would still have a fairly full timetable and all the management duties down on top of it, not to mind shorter summer holidays etc. Not worth it when it only worked out about €500 extra per year than they had teaching with an A post.

They only considered it worth it if they were looking to use it to get experience to move to management in a larger school. And this was during the boom years where there was no pay cut, pension levy, CP and HRA hours.

TheDriver

I'm laughing at the calculations of allowances. Maybe its someone with a hons Dip and phD, teaching domestic science to travellers through irish on spike island prison. You'd clean up! Do,one period PE and one careers to get the extra tax credits and sorted.

bisset

what's the general view about buying notional years versus AVC's if you wont have 40 years at 65?

rainbowtrout

TheDriver wrote: »

I'm laughing at the calculations of allowances. Maybe its someone with a hons Dip and phD, teaching domestic science to travellers through irish on spike island prison. You'd clean up! Do,one period PE and one careers to get the extra tax credits and sorted.

Ya the way that article is written, it sounds like we all get to bale out at 55 with 150K lump sum.

The pension scheme is described as generous to teachers at the beginning and then towards the end of the article describes the payout of pensions as a burden. He just stopped short of saying teachers don't deserve pensions.

TheDriver

Sure everyone hates us anyway so doesn't bother me anymore. Its so great, why didn't all my mates go teaching too.....

solerina

bisset wrote: »

what's the general view about buying notional years versus AVC's if you wont have 40 years at 65?

That seems to depend on who you talk too, we have had people in talking about both in recent years and as all parties say their view is right its hard to know. What I decided was to do AVCs as they are spread over many years (and at the moment still get tax breaks, I think anyway) rather than paying a hefty amount towards the end of my career on notional service ( I could be wrong but that's how I saw it anyway).

TheDriver

If you're pension is below cut off point, it can be tax beneficial to do avcs in last few years all the same

PeteFalk78

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Anyone who started after 1995 is Class A PRSI.

When you get your pension it will include the old age pension.


The going at 55 thing will apply to you or anytime before 65, if you don't have the 40 years done then you will get your pension as a fraction of that.



Simple calculation:

If you started at 22 and taught to 62 you would get full pension.

Each year is 1/80 of final salary multiplied by number of years worked.

So 1/80 * 40 = 40/80 ; pension equals half final salary.

Lump sum payment calculated same way, but calculated as 3/80 for each year worked, so max lump sum is 1.5 times final salary.

So if your final salary is 60 k, 40 years working will provide an annual pension of 30k and a lump sum of 90k.

This 30k includes the OAP of 12k.

The OAP portion is only paid out at 66 (or will be 68 by the time we retire). So if you went at 62, then your pension would be 18k as OAP won't be paid out until you are of age. But those paying the Class A PRSI are entitled to what is called the supplementary pension, which is paid in place of the OAP until you are of age. So essentially it's the same thing and you would have your pension of 30k - 18k from public service pension and 12k from supplementary pension, until you are entitled to OAP.

If you go before 40 years, you work out the fraction of that. Going to assume final pay is still the same.


35 years (going at 57 from above example) 35/80 * 40 of 60 k which would be pension of €26250 and lump sum of 78750.



I started in 2001 so would be similar.

Please see the part highlighted above. The pension person here in work says that the supplementary pension no longers exists and that it has been replaced by the JSA. Where you have to prove that you are actively seeking employment.

TheDriver

It has not been replaced, you can't get JSA as you are not out of work, you are retired. If you get JSA or disability etc, you don't get supplementary pension.