The largest ethnic cleansing in 60+ years in taking place today in Iraq

jank

Nodin wrote: »

No, actually, it isn't. I'm sorry the world isn't the way you want it.

But it is. That is what the Australian Government defines it. If one goes to say Germany or the UK from a war torn country lives there for a bit then jumps on a plane to Ireland or Australia to claim 'asylum' then that is emigration not asylum seeking.

tallus

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

I am Irish and therefore the only thing I care about is the Palestinians

I'm Irish and you don't speak for me.

jank

bumper234 wrote: »

Well you have to ask, of those 3 countries and the supposed "axis of evil" who has killed the most innocent people in the past decade using terrorist tactics?

Islamic fundamentalists have with or without the help of the West.

bumper234

jank wrote: »

Islamic fundamentalists have with or without the help of the West.

Wanna show some numbers there chief?

old_aussie

porsche959 wrote: »

If Israel stopped "genociding" the Palestinians, peace would miraculously break out all across the Middle East.

Kumbaya!

Poor deluded thoughts

I see no difference between the Nazi war machine, the Rising Sun war machine and the islam war machine

The good peace loving Germans and the good peace loving Japanese fed their respective war machines to the end.

The "good peace loving" Germans and Japanese were insignificant when their war machines began their slaughter.

Look at what happened to Germany and Japan, they were taken to the brink of annihilation until their fanatical leaders were killed or unconditionally surrendered.

The "good" Germans and the "good" Japanese refused to realise what their respective war machines would bring to them and that their fanatical leaders and docttine would bring destruction.

I see the same happening to the islam war machine.

Also I'm sick of hearing from muslims that it's only a few bad muslims giving islam a bad name...That line don't cut it anymore.

wendell borton

Its very sad to see communities that have been there since assryria in 1000+ BC are now today being wiped out today.

anncoates

porsche959 wrote: »

Obama has approved air-strikes or is just about to.

It's like a cup final between two teams you don't like.

Rightwing

jank wrote: »

In regards American intervention, well dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. They intervened in Libya, got slated and blamed for the mess that resulted...
Didn't intervene in Syria (Anti-war nutjobs were delighted), chemical weapons and 160,000 dead two years later, well blame America cause sure they have no oil... :rolleyes:
ISIS gain control of Northern Iraq, start beheading Christians and non believers.. humming and hawing.. US launch air strikes and the anti-war nutjobs will be out on the streets condemning this intervention...

Isn't it great to be able to sit in a comfy chair in Dun Laoghaire pontificating about the wrongs of the world and getting paid by the tax payer to do it.

Syria has oil, lots of it.

America has effectively bankrupted itself, only a fool would now deem these wars were a good idea. Funnily enough, when America was badly needed in WW2, they took their time in going to war.

twinytwo

Rightwing wrote: »

Syria has oil, lots of it.

America has effectively bankrupted itself, only a fool would now deem these wars were a good idea. Funnily enough, when America was badly needed in WW2, they took their time in going to war.

Syria is also backed by Russia, thus a no go for america.

America only went to war in Europe to stop the spread of communism after Russia broke the back of the German army

Rightwing

twinytwo wrote: »

Syria is also backed by Russia, thus a no go for america.

America only went to war in Europe to stop the spread of communism after Russia broke the back of the German army

The war was effectively won for sure. Was it not Pearl harbour that dragged them into it?

TwoShedsJackson

twinytwo wrote: »

Syria is also backed by Russia, thus a no go for america.

America only went to war in Europe to stop the spread of communism after Russia broke the back of the German army

The Germans actually declared war on the US a few days after Pearl Harbor.

The Russians did not 'break the back of the German Army' until mid-1944.

KindOfIrish

donegal__road wrote: »

Edward Snowden: leader of the ISIS, Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi was trained in Israel by Mossad under the CIA.

Article here




Russia Today: 'ISIS in Iraq stinks of CIA/NATO dirty war operation'


Article here

Thank you for information from Russian spy and KGB funded TV. Is it you, Ivan? :cool:

R P McMurphy

I Heart Internet wrote: »

What can/should Ireland do about it?

We could send the world's leading crisis management expert: Bertie to reason with ISIS

Everlong1

Glock Lesnar wrote: »

I am Irish and therefore the only thing I care about is the Palestinians

Shame on you ! What about your oppressed Northern Nationalist fellow countrymen/women ! Oh hang on, they're alright now, aren't they?

humanji

old_aussie wrote: »

Also I'm sick of hearing from muslims that it's only a few bad muslims giving islam a bad name...That line don't cut it anymore.

Not cutting it with you doesn't make it true.

Everlong1

iDave wrote: »

Good to see Islam being its peaceful self once again though

And it's supposedly the fastest growing religion in the world.

mad muffin

R P McMurphy wrote: »

We could send the world's leading crisis management expert: Bertie to reason with ISIS

I second this! Bertie to go to ISIS, or just IS as they like to be know now…

jank

bumper234 wrote: »

Wanna show some numbers there chief?

Not really but you can start with with with death toll ISIS and Al-Queda for a start. Then move on to the Iraqi civil war type skirmishes after the fall of Saddam. See you are not interested in more nuanced look at the worlds problems, you just want to point you finger from behind a keyboard and monitor.

jank

twinytwo wrote: »

Syria is also backed by Russia, thus a no go for america.

America only went to war in Europe to stop the spread of communism after Russia broke the back of the German army

Not entirely true but anyway...

donegal__road

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

This type of dangerous and self-serving tosh does nothing for either the plight or cause of those involved.

how is Snowden serving himself by reporting this? And prove that it is tosh.


Link to 'tosh'

bumper234

jank wrote: »

Not really but you can start with with with death toll ISIS and Al-Queda for a start. Then move on to the Iraqi civil war type skirmishes after the fall of Saddam. See you are not interested in more nuanced look at the worlds problems, you just want to point you finger from behind a keyboard and monitor.

Nuanced look is fine but when you look at the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed in Iraq and Afghanistan by British and American troops plus the thousands killed by Israel. I don't think your ISIS or AQ figures would come even close.

Warper

America cant stay silent when innocent people are getting massacred - thats the funniest thing i have heard all day. America are the single biggest destroyer of the Middle East in history. They pick and chose where to bomb depending on how much oil the country has. Palestine is poor and Israel are rich so easy to see what side they are on in that genocide. Iraq has oil so lets bomb the terrorists

Tony EH

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

The Russians did not 'break the back of the German Army' until mid-19441943.

You're welcome.

Little CuChulainn

I find myself too often wondering what is the point in the UN? Ethnic cleansing across Africa, Palestine and Iraq and nothing being done. Did nothing to secure the plane crash in Ukraine. Veto power for the two biggest warmongers and one of the worst countries for human rights.

Rightwing

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I find myself too often wondering what is the point in the UN? Ethnic cleansing across Africa, Palestine and Iraq and nothing being done. Did nothing to secure the plane crash in Ukraine. Veto power for the two biggest warmongers and one of the worst countries for human rights.

To be fair to them, the world is in crisis at the moment. I can't remember a geopoliticial crisis ever as bad as now.

Frank Lee Midere

The US entered the war because Japan sunk their battleships. Then Germany declared war.

I Heart Internet

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I find myself too often wondering what is the point in the UN? Ethnic cleansing across Africa, Palestine and Iraq and nothing being done. Did nothing to secure the plane crash in Ukraine. Veto power for the two biggest warmongers and one of the worst countries for human rights.

You have to understand the context of the UN's formation (end of WW2), the global powers at the time.

You then have to ask yourself - would the world be better off with or without the UN today??? Even for all it's shortcomings, I suggest the world is still much better off with the UN in existence.

jonon9

Skylinehead wrote: »

60 years? Rwanda not come to mind? Cambodia?

You can throw Bosnia in the mix

Frank Lee Midere

mad muffin wrote: »

US/Britain/Israel. The new axis of evil. I love it!

It's clear that the Iraq war was based on lies. It also removed a secular dictator. There were plenty of voices, even conservative voices in the US ( Buchnan for instance) who predicted exactly this. The destruction of Iraq's minorities. That's not a bug in the 2003 war, it's a feature.

Rightwing

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

It's clear that the Iraq war was based on lies. It also removed a secular dictator. There were plenty of voices, even conservative voices in the US ( Buchnan for instance) who predicted exactly this. The destruction of Iraq's minorities. That's not a bug in the 2003 war, it's a feature.

They all knew it. Why did Bush senior not topple Hussein ?

wendell borton

Going on form it's reasonable to have suspicions of western involvement in the formation of ISIS, having an ally of Russia and Iran with mediteranean ports isn't exactly in the game plan.
Even if this is pure speculation, some of the countries we buy oil off are funding them.

ectoraige

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Islamic terrorists are rampaging through northern Iraq expelling, under threat of death, Christians who have been living there for nearly 2,000 years and Yazidis who have been there for perhaps 4,000 years!
...
What can/should Ireland do about it?

Can somebody clarify - are these white Christians, or the other funny-looking kind you read about in the Messenger?

If it's the latter then I reckon we should just shrug, say it's awful, and ask "what can be done?", before conveniently forgetting all about it when the western news cycle moves on.

If it's the former then we should definitely complain to anybody who'll listen and remind them how awful it all is, and that it's a disgrace that not enough is being done, before conveniently forgetting all about it when the western news cycle moves on.

FTA69

jank wrote: »

In regards American intervention, well dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

What nonsense is this? As bad and terrible as Iraq was under Hussein, it was at least somewhat stable and we never had any of this sort of utter chaos and sectional warfare. For years US-led sanctions against Iraq simply plunged the general population there into poverty while doing nothing to destabilise the ruling elite who continued to live in luxury. This was then followed by an invasion predicated on a pack of lies (WMD) and an obvious attempt at strengthening US geopolitical position in the area. Instead, the Americans ran out of steam, bailed out and left behind a sordid f*cking mess which is directly to blame for the rise of ISIS (and others) today.

The current scenario is a direct consequence of that invasion so forgive me if I'm not heaping praise on the Yanks for making a few token efforts at sorting out the mess they created.

They intervened in Libya, got slated and blamed for the mess that resulted...

I think you'll find there was considerable Western intervention in Libya and now that Ghadaffi has gone the country has gone down the sh*tter. Good job all.

Didn't intervene in Syria (Anti-war nutjobs were delighted), chemical weapons and 160,000 dead two years later, well blame America cause sure they have no oil... :rolleyes:

...And now you're contradicting yourself utterly because those who are now to the fore in fighting Assad are these nutjobs in ISIS. Are you suggesting the Americans and Co intervene again and create the conditions where they can take over completely? Despite the narrative we were initially spun of the noble "Free Syrian Army" we now see it's simply another front for these Islamist crackpots to push against. Ironically enough, it's the 'terrorists' in Hezbollah who are making the main moves to hold the line.

Isn't it great to be able to sit in a comfy chair in Dun Laoghaire pontificating about the wrongs of the world and getting paid by the tax payer to do it.

Unlike yourself who's on the ground is it? You're pontificating just as much as anyone else.

Frank Lee Midere

We should probably get the opinion on what is best for his community from the Christian second in command in the old regime - Tariq Aziz. A Chaldean Christian. Amongst many Christians in the Baathist party who knew the alternative would be worse.

He's in jail however on trumped up charges. His power base is destroyed. By the US and allies. His cultural group exterminated. By the offshoot of the one time allies of the US.

dav3

Time to take down the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner...again.

Seeing as though Iraq is in a worse state than before the US and it's "allies" invaded. The very least the US should be doing is sorting out the mess they created.

There is very little that us Irish can do to stop ISIS. Apart from hoping they get wiped out sooner rather than later.

FTA69

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

We should probably get the opinion on what is best for his community from the Christian second in command in the old regime - Tariq Aziz. A Chaldean Christian. Amongst many Christians in the Baathist party who knew the alternative would be worse.

He's in jail however on trumped up charges. His power base is destroyed. By the US and allies. His cultural group exterminated. By the offshoot of the one time allies of the US.

He helped preside over a regime that gassed Kurds, attempted to wipe out the Marsh Arabs and was complicit in general torture, corruption and scumbaggery. Hardly a good lad like.

Thrill

State Dept confirms ISIS taken Mosul dam. Threatens entire Tigris plain: could put Mosul under 100 feet of water, Baghdad 16 feet.

US "extremely concerned" by Mosul dam development. Coordinating with Iraqsecurity forces & Peshmerga to develop options to mitigate threat

end of the road

old_aussie wrote: »

Poor deluded thoughts

I see no difference between the Nazi war machine, the Rising Sun war machine and the islam war machine

The good peace loving Germans and the good peace loving Japanese fed their respective war machines to the end.

The "good peace loving" Germans and Japanese were insignificant when their war machines began their slaughter.

Look at what happened to Germany and Japan, they were taken to the brink of annihilation until their fanatical leaders were killed or unconditionally surrendered.

The "good" Germans and the "good" Japanese refused to realise what their respective war machines would bring to them and that their fanatical leaders and docttine would bring destruction.

I see the same happening to the islam war machine.

Also I'm sick of hearing from muslims that it's only a few bad muslims giving islam a bad name...That line don't cut it anymore.

it does cut it because its true

LorMal

FTA69 wrote: »

jank wrote: »

What nonsense is this? As bad and terrible as Iraq was under Hussein, it was at least somewhat stable and we never had any of this sort of utter chaos and sectional warfare. For years US-led sanctions against Iraq simply plunged the general population there into poverty while doing nothing to destabilise the ruling elite who continued to live in luxury. This was then followed by an invasion predicated on a pack of lies (WMD) and an obvious attempt at strengthening US geopolitical position in the area. Instead, the Americans ran out of steam, bailed out and left behind a sordid f*cking mess which is directly to blame for the rise of ISIS (and others) today.

The current scenario is a direct consequence of that invasion so forgive me if I'm not heaping praise on the Yanks for making a few token efforts at sorting out the mess they created.



I think you'll find there was considerable Western intervention in Libya and now that Ghadaffi has gone the country has gone down the sh*tter. Good job all.



...And now you're contradicting yourself utterly because those who are now to the fore in fighting Assad are these nutjobs in ISIS. Are you suggesting the Americans and Co intervene again and create the conditions where they can take over completely? Despite the narrative we were initially spun of the noble "Free Syrian Army" we now see it's simply another front for these Islamist crackpots to push against. Ironically enough, it's the 'terrorists' in Hezbollah who are making the main moves to hold the line.



Unlike yourself who's on the ground is it? You're pontificating just as much as anyone else.

This is so patronising to the people in these countries. Can they not think for themselves? Are the US telling them to behead innocent civilians and children? Have they no free will?

Are you advocating that America does not intervene to save the people for have fled from the murderous ISIS hordes? Who will help them then? Ireland? (we who are trying to wriggle out of Sanctions against Russia because they might cost us a few bob)The EU?

Bush was a criminal. His war in Iraq was an abomination. But no one forces these ISIS scum to do what they do. I hope America wipe them out - every last one. And I will be cheering them every step of the way

Sound of Silence

One of the unfortunate things about this current conflict is that it could possibly have been avoided.

Once Saddam Hussein had been ousted by US Forces and the Nation's Military pacified, efforts should have been made to immediately place Iraq on the path to a three state solution. The attempts to essentially re-mould the Iraqi State into a functioning democracy were incredibly misguided once we take into account just how divided and incompatible it's inhabitants were. The new Iraqi Army were great evidence of this during the initial rise of ISIS/ISIL, where they quickly threw down their weapons - not because they were an inherently bad Army, but because many of them realised that they had nothing tangible to fight for.

The only reason Iraq was even remotely stable during Saddam's rule was because it required at the bare minimum a brutal dictatorship to coerce the population into anything even resembling stability. It was unfortunate that the US mistook any discontent in the region as solely a response to Saddam's rule rather than evidence of the fact that the Country never should have existed in the first place, let alone be allowed to continue to exist.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

But it is. That is what the Australian Government defines it. If one goes to say Germany or the UK from a war torn country lives there for a bit then jumps on a plane to Ireland or Australia to claim 'asylum' then that is emigration not asylum seeking.

.......which is condemnation in and of itself. We aren't talking about anyone living anywhere previously either - that's something you've just introduced.

FTA69

LorMal wrote: »

This is so patronising to the people in these countries. Can they not think for themselves? Are the US telling them to behead innocent civilians and children? Have they no free will?

What are you on about? I never said that for a second. I said that smashing a society to pieces and plunging it into the chaos of protracted war allows for these sort of groups to emerge and gain traction. That's just a plain fact. It has happened in Iraq, Libya and a multitude of other countries. When you dismantle existing society and replace it with f*ck all it stands to reason that dystopic mental groups will emerge because there is nobody to stand up to them. If Irish society was plunged into instability and poverty for years and then invaded we'd probably have loopy groups emerge too. It has p*ss all to do with the nationality in question so please stop inferring I'm patronising people in the Middle East, I have more experience of the gaff and its people than most.

Are you advocating that America does not intervene to save the people for have fled from the murderous ISIS hordes?

I'm advocating that the Yanks shouldn't have invaded the place to begin with. However, we are where we are now and they probably have a duty to help clean up the mess they created. They won't be getting praise from me in doing so however.

I hope America wipe them out - every last one. And I will be cheering them every step of the way

Wartard nonsense. Death and destruction should never be cheered.

leBIT

h ttp://fitmisc.com/forum/showthread.php/76329-Breaking-News-US-begins-bombing-ISIS-with-first-strike-on-Islamists-artillery-already-confirmed

h ttp://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/iraq-options/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Hande hoche!

fitmisc.com is an interesting source.

MadYaker

Breaking news several hours ago, surely theres already a thread on this?

fedor.2.

America saves the day again

leBIT

MadYaker wrote: »

Breaking news several hours ago, surely theres already a thread on this?

Nope they launched the first airstrike 10 minutes ago...

Hande hoche!

So we have the Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian and U.S. air forces all operating over Iraqi airspace.
It's a strange old world.

I Heart Internet

MadYaker wrote: »

Breaking news several hours ago, surely theres already a thread on this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057264736&page=13

humanji

Threads Merged.