The largest ethnic cleansing in 60+ years in taking place today in Iraq

Frank Lee Midere

LorMal wrote: »

Those who blame the US for what's happening

The US is almost entirely responsible for the situation. It did invade the country not that long ago on the pretext of it having weapons of mass destruction. Half of it's population thought Iraq was involved in 9/11. Of course 9/11 was the reason for the war. It also created al Queda back in the day. Until a few months ago neo con politicians were advocating for a war in Syria against the regime and (apparantly) Hezbollah. In other words. Allying with ISIS.

LorMal

Karl Stein wrote: »

Wars of that magnitude rarely happen for any one single reason.



Definitely played its part.



It would have played its part too, for sure.



I don't think these whack-jobs can be stopped by air-power - hindered maybe but not stopped. I think the regional actors should be the ones sorting the problem out principle, among them the Iraqis themselves.

Fair points.
I dont think its a local issue that can be handled locally.
I agree air power is pointless.
I actually think it will require an overwhelming military response and I hate to say that.
These Isis people are scary, militarily and strategically astute. Could make al Qaeda look like amateurs.

LorMal

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The US is almost entirely responsible for the situation. It did invade the country not that long ago on the pretext of it having weapons of mass destruction. Half of it's population thought Iraq was involved in 9/11. Of course 9/11 was the reason for the war. It also created al Queda back in the day. Until a few months ago neo con politicians were advocating for a war in Syria against the regime and (apparantly) Hezbollah. In other words. Allying with ISIS.

Blame ISIS.

Frank Lee Midere

LorMal wrote: »

Indeed partly. But they are not doing the beheading

Christians have survived there for centuries. The arrival of israel led to a pan-Arabist response. That is - non sectarian. As the US began to get more involved it was seen as a new Christian crusader country and radical Islam ensued.

Frank Lee Midere

LorMal wrote: »

Blame ISIS.

Blaming ISIS is trivial. Radical groups will appear if you destroy a countries infrastructure and disband it's army and police.

Let's play a thought experiment. Imagine if China were the world power and it bombed significant parts of the Middle East into the dark ages. Would you be as hostile to anti-Chinese commentary if radical forces appeared.

MRnotlob606

Why don't ISIS put down their weapons and pick up instruments and form a 70s styled rock band that covers songs from bands such as Electric light orchestra and Kansas ?

LorMal

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Blaming ISIS is trivial. Radical groups will appear if you destroy a countries infrastructure and disband it's army and police.

Let's play a thought experiment. Imagine if China were the world power and it bombed significant parts of the Middle East into the dark ages. Would you be as hostile to anti-Chinese commentary if radical forces appeared.

It's not trivial to the poor people on that mountain tonight.
Put the blame where it belongs - radical Islam, jihadists, ISIS,...the whole warped sick ideology.
Blame the man holding the knife to the boys neck.

Karl Stein

ISIS are responsible for their own actions. Yes the US might have played its part in setting these events in motion but that doesn't excuse ISIS for being the murderous medieval scum they are.

Frank Lee Midere

Karl Stein wrote: »

ISIS are responsible for their own actions. Yes the US might have played its part in setting these events in motion but that doesn't excuse ISIS for being the murderous medieval scum they are.

Here's another way of saying it:

The radical group ISIS exists because of US actions in Iraq.

Which doesn't forgive ISIS but also puts the fault with the US.

Mission accomplished? A reasonable world would have Blair and Bush locked up, then we could go after ISIS.

Instead Blair is the Middle East peace envoy. Doing a sterling job there, isn't he?

Iwasfrozen

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Here's another way of saying it:

The radical group ISIS exists because of US actions in Iraq.

Which doesn't forgive ISIS but also puts the fault with the US.

Mission accomplished? A reasonable world would have Blair and Bush locked up, then we could go after ISIS.

Instead Blair is the Middle East peace envoy. Doing a sterling job there, isn't he?

That's ridiculous, ISIS are responsible for their own actions, that doesn't absolve the US of responsibility for their invasion but they are not to blame for the actions of Islamic nutjobs.

Karl Stein

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The radical group ISIS exists because of US actions in Iraq.

It's very much after-the-fact. US planners could not have predicted the rise of ISIS when they were invading in 2003.

Mission accomplished? A reasonable world would have Blair and Bush locked up

Oh I agree with that.

then we could go after ISIS.

It should be an international effort by consensus and should probably involve Iran.

Instead Blair is the Middle East peace envoy. Doing a sterling job there, isn't he?

A sick joke if ever there was one.

Frank Lee Midere

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's ridiculous, ISIS are responsible for their own actions, that doesn't absolve the US of responsibility for their invasion but they are not to blame for the actions of Islamic nutjobs.

Oh. For the love of Christ. The US - which by the way killed millions in Iraq, far more than any extremist group - is clearly responsible for the death, destruction and breakdown of society which led to ISIS. And I believe that was the aim of the war not the moronic claptrap about "democracy". The aim was to destroy the country and leave it a basket case.

Iwasfrozen

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Oh. For the love of Christ. The US - which by the way killed millions in Iraq, far more than any extremist group - is clearly responsible for the death, destruction and breakdown of society which led to ISIS. And I believe that was the aim of the war not the moronic claptrap about "democracy". The aim was to destroy the country and leave it a basket case.

America is responsible for leaving a power vacuum that provided the environment for extremist Islamic groups to grow, yes.

But ISIS is independently responsible for their own actions. Every crime that ISIS commits is solely their responsibility, not America.

LorMal

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

America is responsible for leaving a power vacuum that provided the environment for extremist Islamic groups to grow, yes.

But ISIS is independently responsible for their own actions. Every crime that ISIS commits is solely their responsibility, not America's.

Yes! And we must face that head on.
Hitler made a compelling case that the Versailles Agreement was so unjust that Germany had the moral right to rearm.
Yes the Americans were completely wrong to invade Iraq. But let's focus on the protagonists - because they are vicious and dangerous.

Iwasfrozen

LorMal wrote: »

Yes! And we must face that head on.
Hitler made a compelling case that the Versailles Agreement was so unjust that Germany had the moral right to rearm.
Yes the Americans were completely wrong to invade Iraq. But let's focus on the protagonists - because they are vicious and dangerous.

The daft thing about going back in history is that you always find someone else to blame in the past for the mess in the present for example

ISIS --> America
America --> Saddam
Saddam --> Soviets
Soviets --> British
British --> Ottomans

etc. etc. It never stops, No matter what point in history you choose someone in the past is always to blame for how ****ed up the present is.

We didn't start the fire...

RustyNut

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The daft thing about going back in history is that you always find someone else to blame in the past for the mess in the present for example

ISIS --> America
America --> Saddam
Saddam --> Soviets
Soviets --> British
British --> Ottomans

etc. etc. It never stops, No matter what point in history you choose someone in the past is always to blame for how ****ed up the present is.

We didn't start the fire...

Looks like the imperialists are the common problem tbh.

LorMal

LorMal wrote: »

Yes! And we must face that head on.
Hitler made a compelling case that the Versailles Agreement was so unjust that Germany had the moral right to rearm.
Yes the Americans were completely wrong to invade Iraq. But let's focus on the protagonists - because they are vicious and dangerous.

Things aren't as discrete as the nation-states for the 1900s presented in textbooks. The situation in the middle east is not easily shown on maps or with national labels. There's militias with more backing than some countries. There's whole areas under complete local rule.

It's easy to say "Go in and bomb the whole lot of them" and leave it at that. Might be better to address where they're coming from, who's supporting them, how to prevent future similar groups etc. etc.

LorMal

Deleted User wrote: »

Things aren't as discrete as the nation-states for the 1900s presented in textbooks. The situation in the middle east is not easily shown on maps or with national labels. There's militias with more backing than some countries. There's whole areas under complete local rule.

It's easy to say "Go in and bomb the whole lot of them" and leave it at that. Might be better to address where they're coming from, who's supporting them, how to prevent future similar groups etc. etc.

Maybe. But I think if we kill the whole feckin lot of them, then that would limit their ability to rape, behead, crucify, stone, whip and execute innocent men, women and children.
Just a hunch.

LorMal

LorMal wrote: »

Maybe. But I think if we kill the whole feckin lot of them, then that would limit their ability to rape, behead, crucify, stone, whip and execute innocent men, women and children.
Just a hunch.

This bunch, yes. Do a little bit of that and then address the underlying issues and maybe try and prevent the same thing arising in a decade would be preferable to me.

Iwasfrozen

Deleted User wrote: »

This bunch, yes. Do a little bit of that and then address the underlying issues and maybe try and prevent the same thing arising in a decade would be preferable to me.

What are the underlying issues and who should address them?

Egginacup

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Islamic terrorists are rampaging through northern Iraq expelling, under threat of death, Christians who have been living there for nearly 2,000 years and Yazidis who have been there for perhaps 4,000 years!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28686998




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/almost-200-000-flee-iraqi-town-captured-by-islamic-state-1.1890132



What can/should Ireland do about it?

What can/should Ireland do about it? I suppose coming out, growing some testes and expressing a bit of outrage against the turds (US and UK) who caused this horror would be a start.

Tail Docker

Deleted User wrote: »

In this particularly case ISIS are the bad guys, along with those pulling the strings. The knock-on effects of some of the west's actions both recently and a few decades ago have contributed to what's happening now. Be nice if the yanks and the rest did do something in this case for the benefit of innocent civilians, they've done it at times in the past, hopefully they will this time again.

There was an interesting point made online, a long while ago, amongst "conspiracy theory people" that WW3 would be fomented by persuading western people to hate Muslim people. This whole situation strikes me as being a little too close to the "conspiracy theory" for comfort. I wonder who would benefit?

Egginacup

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The daft thing about going back in history is that you always find someone else to blame in the past for the mess in the present for example

ISIS --> America
America --> Saddam
Saddam --> Soviets
Soviets --> British
British --> Ottomans

etc. etc. It never stops, No matter what point in history you choose someone in the past is always to blame for how ****ed up the present is.

We didn't start the fire...

Let the Nazis of the hook then. If it wasn't for Franz Ferdinand's driver or a bunch of French demanding the crushing of Germany at Versailles then Dachau, Treblinka or Sachsenhausen would never exist.

Sound of Silence

The Kurdish Pashmerga have managed to transport a significant number of Yazidi refugees from the Sinjar Mountain to safe areas of Kurdistan, out of the reach of ISIS.

Kurdistan is as usual one of the few bastions of sanity in what is becoming an increasingly hellish Iraq. Hopefully this current conflict will, at the very least, allow them to secure lasting independence.

feargale

Egginacup wrote: »

What can/should Ireland do about it? I suppose coming out, growing some testes and expressing a bit of outrage against the turds (US and UK) who caused this horror would be a start.

Yes indeed. That should put the frighteners on ISIS and make them see sense.

Iwasfrozen

Egginacup wrote: »

Let the Nazis of the hook then. If it wasn't for Franz Ferdinand's driver or a bunch of French demanding the crushing of Germany at Versailles then Dachau, Treblinka or Sachsenhausen would never exist.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. The idea I'm trying to get across is that the nazis are responsible for their own crimes. You can't hold the French responsible for the growth of the national socialist movement no more than you can hold the Americans responsible for the growth of ISIS.

Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What are the underlying issues and who should address them?

Unemployment, disenfranchisement, large numbers of refugees and displaced people. There's a lot.

Tail Docker wrote: »

There was an interesting point made online, a long while ago, amongst "conspiracy theory people" that WW3 would be fomented by persuading western people to hate Muslim people. This whole situation strikes me as being a little too close to the "conspiracy theory" for comfort. I wonder who would benefit?

To an extent it's already happening, WW3 isn't going to happen like that. If you look at just about any conflict watch how it's presented as religion or ethnicity. Nigeria is presented as being about religion. It's about people being screwed out of money and opportunities. The same thing in Somlia, in Sudan. The Chinese are targeting Muslims now. They happen to live in a region that China want to extend their full grip to and built through/over.
It's far too easy to look at things along ethnic/religious lines. But that's how the powerful divide people. If everyone would bear that in mind and resist it the world would be a much better place.

Sound of Silence wrote: »

The Kurdish Pashmerga have managed to transport a significant number of Yazidi refugees from the Sinjar Mountain to safe areas of Kurdistan, out of the reach of ISIS.

Kurdistan is as usual one of the few bastions of sanity in what is becoming an increasingly hellish Iraq. Hopefully this current conflict will, at the very least, allow them to secure lasting independence.

The Kurds are one of the few ethnic groups who barely have a grey mark against them.

jank

So, given that we have wide spread ethnic cleansing in northern Iraq can we expect the largest Anti-war group in Ireland to protest or even have a mention about these atrocities..?

mad muffin

jank wrote: »

So, given that we have wide spread ethnic cleansing in northern Iraq can we expect the largest Anti-war group in Ireland to protest or even have a mention about these atrocities..?

I expect Gordon D'Arcy to be at the forefront.

bumper234

Egginacup wrote: »

What can/should Ireland do about it? I suppose coming out, growing some testes and expressing a bit of outrage against the turds (US and UK) who caused this horror would be a start.

"Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding."

Betty White

Awkward Badger

jank wrote: »

So, given that we have wide spread ethnic cleansing in northern Iraq can we expect the largest Anti-war group in Ireland to protest or even have a mention about these atrocities..?

Protest what exactly ? The embassy of ISIS ? The failure of the UN to address the issue ? Other UN members states for allowing and aiding ISIS in killing civilians and blocking attempts to hold them to account ? The Irish government for not trying to use their ties with ISIS to attempt to make a difference ?

Who and what exactly should people be protesting here jank ? I guess we're all anti-Semites and anti US because we're not on the streets of Dublin protesting an group who have no political representation in Ireland nor are member's of any organisation we are members of ? Who's actions I have no doubt the Government will condemn which is all they can actually do.

donegal__road

There are some posters on this thread that clearly dont read posts too carefully before they 'like' them... either that or they dont understand sarcasm.


My belief is that this group, the ISIS has been created and trained by the CIA and Mossad. Edward Snowden has made this revelation, the Washington Post has also made reference to this in an article it published in 2013 which is still online, (maybe not for too much longer).

They media have reported that the ISIS are conducting a genocide in Iraq, and graphic images of be-headings have been published online to shock the world..

so the US have come to the rescue by the way of air strikes last night. This takes the light off Israel for the minute, where the genocide continues.... and the US continues to do fukall about.



Link to Washington Post article

crockholm

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Protest what exactly ? The embassy of ISIS ? The failure of the UN to address the issue ? Other UN members states for allowing and aiding ISIS in killing civilians and blocking attempts to hold them to account ? The Irish government for not trying to use their ties with ISIS to attempt to make a difference ?

Who and what exactly should people be protesting here jank ? I guess we're all anti-Semites and anti US because we're not on the streets of Dublin protesting an group who have no political representation in Ireland nor are member's of any organisation we are members of ? Who's actions I have no doubt the Government will condemn which is all they can actually do.

A protest march to the Israeli embassy won't bring Peace to Gaza,yet people do it,out of a sense of solidarity with those whom they deem to be oppressed.

I just Think that it looks wrong if many Peace activists are willing to go out in support of one beleaguered people and ignore the plight of an even more beleaguered minority simply because the aggressors are not the same people.

bumper234

crockholm wrote: »

A protest march to the Israeli embassy won't bring Peace to Gaza,yet people do it,out of a sense of solidarity with those whom they deem to be oppressed.

I just Think that it looks wrong if many Peace activists are willing to go out in support of one beleaguered people and ignore the plight of an even more beleaguered minority simply because the aggressors are not the same people.

A march on the Israeli embassy makes the news, gets seen by Israeli people and politicians. A march to????? about ISIS gets seen by???? And reported to????

FTA69

jank wrote: »

This is why ladies and gentlemen, the left over reach and put themselves on the fringes. In an effort to blame everything on the US we are left with the opinion that Iraq was better of under Saddam... a man who used chemical weapons on his own people, a man who invaded Iran in a war that cost a million casualties, a man who invaded Kuwait to achieve regional hegemony, a man who's regime cost Iraq up to a million lives and sent the country into poverty.

You're right. He was an evil dictator. No argument there from me. The question is though, is Iraq a better place now that he has gone? Clearly not. The more pertinent question is did the Americans invade Iraq out of a good-hearted desire to aid the people of Iraq? Again the answer there is no, unless you genuinely believe they did so for altruistic reasons as opposed to geopolitical concerns. (But you'd be an eejit to believe that.) Similarly, all of the horrible sh*t he did, he did so with the backing of the US who gave him the chemical weapons in the first place; which kind of makes a show of your narrative of American democracy v tyrannical dictator.

Screw the average Iraqi, don't give a **** about them. All that matters is my ideological pureness and self righteousness.

And that's why the Americans invaded Iraq is it, to help the average Iraqi? Were they ever consulted before the US rampaged into their country during an invasion that was predicated on a lie and naked self-interest? To be honest, I would contend that the people who don't give a f*ck about the average Iraqi are the people who bombed their country into the dirt and killed a million odd of them. The same people who sent in an army of occupation that often openly derided them as savages. Iraq is now a factional mess, with one set of gangsters having been replaced by another and the ordinary person suffering more now than they ever did while those who caused the mess can wash their hands of it and say "mission accomplished". Forgive me if I don't buy into that sort of sh*te.

then I can be left in peace in my sunny back garden to write my letters to the Irish Times blaming the west for all that is wrong in the world, ah bliss.

Can you please spare me this patronising b*llocks please? As if I'm some sorted of limp-wristed popinjay because I don't think the Americans invading Iraq and ruining the place was a great idea. You're as detatched from the average Iraqi's life as I am so stop insinuating you're some sort of hard-headed realist who knows what it's like on the ground. In reality you're a right-wing cheerleader for invasions and 'regime change' in countries where you're never going to be forced up a mountain at gunpoint as a direct consequence of that.

Rightwing

Of course no one is protesting against ISIS. To suggest they should borders on lunacy. It would be akin to protesting about a rape in Dublin, a knife attack in cork. Everyone knows what ISIS is doing is completely wrong.

mad muffin

donegal__road wrote: »

There are some posters on this thread that clearly dont read posts too carefully before they 'like' them... either that or they dont understand sarcasm.


My belief is that this group, the ISIS has been created and trained by the CIA and Mossad. Edward Snowden has made this revelation, the Washington Post has also made reference to this in an article it published in 2013 which is still online, (maybe not for too much longer).

They media have reported that the ISIS are conducting a genocide in Iraq, and graphic images of be-headings have been published online to shock the world..

so the US have come to the rescue by the way of air strikes last night. This takes the light off Israel for the minute, where the genocide continues.... and the US continues to do fukall about.



Link to Washington Post article

I think the CT forum is this way

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>

bumper234

mad muffin wrote: »

I think the CT forum is this way

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>

You think it's beyond belief? Where do you think AQ came from?

LorMal

FTA69 wrote: »

jank wrote: »

You're right. He was an evil dictator. No argument there from me. The question is though, is Iraq a better place now that he has gone? Clearly not. The more pertinent question is did the Americans invade Iraq out of a good-hearted desire to aid the people of Iraq? Again the answer there is no, unless you genuinely believe they did so for altruistic reasons as opposed to geopolitical concerns. (But you'd be an eejit to believe that.)



And that's why the Americans invaded Iraq is it, to help the average Iraqi? Were they ever consulted before the US rampaged into their country during an invasion that was predicated on a lie and naked self-interest? To be honest, I would contend that the people who don't give a f*ck about the average Iraqi are the people who bombed their country into the dirt and killed a million odd of them. The same people who sent in an army of occupation that often openly derided them as savages. Iraq is now a factional mess, with one set of gangsters having been replaced by another and the ordinary person suffering more now than they ever did while those who caused the mess can wash their hands of it and say "mission accomplished". Forgive me if I don't buy into that sort of sh*te.



Can you please spare me this patronising b*llocks please? As if I'm some sorted of limp-wristed popinjay because I don't think the Americans invading Iraq and ruining the place was a great idea. You're as detatched from the average Iraqi's life as I am so stop insinuating you're some sort of hard-headed realist who knows what it's like on the ground. In reality you're a right-wing cheerleader for invasions and 'regime change' in countries where you're never going to be forced up a mountain at gunpoint as a direct consequence of that.

A lot of heat here and very little light. This fixation on America is getting ridiculous.
Soon the consensus here will be that America and Israel formed ISIS and are secretly behind the latest atrocities.
Its juvenile but I suppose it sounds all cool and knowing when you are young.

FTA69

LorMal wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

A lot of heat here and very little light. This fixation on America is getting ridiculous.
Soon the consensus here will be that America and Israel formed ISIS and are secretly behind the latest atrocities.
Its juvenile but I suppose it sounds all cool and knowing when you are young.

Point out anything I said in that post which is wrong instead of flapping about my age and your point might carry some weight.

My contention was that the invasion destabilised Iraq to the point that ISIS was able to emerge. It is a direct consequence of the Iraq War, not some bizarre unrelated coincidence.

crockholm

bumper234 wrote: »

A march on the Israeli embassy makes the news, gets seen by Israeli people and politicians. A march to????? about ISIS gets seen by???? And reported to????

And all of the coverage does what exactly?Are the Israelis really swayed by the anti war and somtimes anti-semetic sentiments of the crowd?

I Believe that these events are done more to show a support or solidarity with people in a far away country we are unable to help.

I say march,get the politicans/media talking about it, and as for embassies/consulates-well the Iraqi one would be a start-remind them that their cowardice and incompitence is killing their Citizens in the annexed areas.

LorMal

FTA69 wrote: »

LorMal wrote: »

Point out anything I said in that post which is wrong instead of flapping about my age and your point might carry some weight.

My contention was that the invasion destabilised Iraq to the point that ISIS was able to emerge. It is a direct consequence of the Iraq War, not some bizarre unrelated coincidence.

I am not 'flapping'. I am making the point that your ire is misdirected. Do you notice how little moral outrage in this thread is directed against the actual perpetrators i.e. ISIS and how many posts are directed against the US.

No-one is saying the US were right to invade - so your don't have to keep making that point repeatedly. We get it.

I am trying to move the discussion toward the key issue here - what is going to be done about ISIS and by whom.

donegal__road

mad muffin wrote: »

I think the CT forum is this way

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>

you can CT all you want...

According a document recently released by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, now the Islamic State, is an intelligence asset.
The NSA document reveals the United States, Israel, and Britain are responsible for the creation of ISIS.
Earlier this month Nabil Na’eem, the founder of the Islamic Democratic Jihad Party and former top al-Qaeda commander, told the Beirut-based pan-Arab TV station al-Maydeen all current al-Qaeda affiliates, including ISIS, work for the CIA.
ISIS is a well-armed and trained terrorist group now in control of large areas of Iraq and Syria.
The NSA document states the group was established by U.S., British and Israeli intelligence as part of a strategy dubbed “the hornet’s nest” to draw Islamic militants from around the world to Syria.

LorMal

donegal__road wrote: »

you can CT all you want...

A fascinating point and scary if true. I have not seen this on any mainstream media outlet.
Where is the source for this revaluation?

Nodin

jank wrote: »

So, given that we have wide spread ethnic cleansing in northern Iraq can we expect the largest Anti-war group in Ireland to protest or even have a mention about these atrocities..?

You've come out with this nonsense line a number of times now on different threads, and had its blatantly obvious nonsense pointed out to you already, so what you hope to achieve by regurgitating it here is a bit of a mystery.

jank

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Protest what exactly ? The embassy of ISIS ? The failure of the UN to address the issue ? Other UN members states for allowing and aiding ISIS in killing civilians and blocking attempts to hold them to account ? The Irish government for not trying to use their ties with ISIS to attempt to make a difference ?

Who and what exactly should people be protesting here jank ? I guess we're all anti-Semites and anti US because we're not on the streets of Dublin protesting an group who have no political representation in Ireland nor are member's of any organisation we are members of ? Who's actions I have no doubt the Government will condemn which is all they can actually do.

Eh, well the hint is in the name of the relevant action group. Anti-War. Or should it be renamed 'Anti-War of states where we can influence some change'
The premise of being anti-war is quite simple yet some people brand themselves as being thus and then go on an idealogical and political campaign with this slogan which is very much disingenuous to the whole simple anti-war message as a whole.

It seems because western societies and democracies which the US and Israel are part of, can be seen to be influenced by public opinion and marches then therefore it is legitimate to direct the anti war message solely and only to them as dictators and fanatics don't give two ****s about crusties and hippies marching on the streets which of course is the ultimate irony of the whole modern anti ware message and groups.

TwoShedsJackson

Nodin wrote: »

You've come out with this nonsense line a number of times now on different threads, and had its blatantly obvious nonsense pointed out to you already, so what you hope to achieve by regurgitating it here is a bit of a mystery.

You know well by now that jank likes nothing more than a nice drive-by post.

Meglamonia

Why would the US Britain etc create the ISIS?Knowing thousands of Christians etc would be killed?

PopePalpatine

FTA69 wrote: »

Can you please spare me this patronising b*llocks please? As if I'm some sorted of limp-wristed popinjay because I don't think the Americans invading Iraq and ruining the place was a great idea. You're as detatched from the average Iraqi's life as I am so stop insinuating you're some sort of hard-headed realist who knows what it's like on the ground. In reality you're a right-wing cheerleader for invasions and 'regime change' in countries where you're never going to be forced up a mountain at gunpoint as a direct consequence of that.

That's pretty much Jank's modus operandi.

jank

FTA69 wrote: »

In reality you're a right-wing cheerleader for invasions and 'regime change' in countries where you're never going to be forced up a mountain at gunpoint as a direct consequence of that.

Thats new one, as I have and always have been against the invasion of Iraq (find a post were I have supported it) but unlike you I can release the reality of today and not go down the easy route of 'well, we will just blame America for this one, shall we?'...Yawn.

Also, I am more well travelled and educated than you at the nuances of real life in countries such as these than you. Which actually makes me more wilful to resist the bollox the left come out with about 'da West', 'da Oil' ,da Poor, or whatever... spare me the faux indignation.We have had a bucket load of it the past few weeks.