Expectations of God Parents

sari

Well I think my first comment was a bit harsh as a few posters said spending time with the child and having a bond is the most important, so sorry for that
But I think this thread just highlights how little people really know about baptism, godparents and what signing your child up to the Catholic Church, for life, means and I just don't understand why people do something they don't understand, don't really care about or that won't be a significant part of the child's life. You are only prolonging the grip the church had on this country and over the development of the young child

pwurple

sari wrote: »

Well I think my first comment was a bit harsh as a few posters said spending time with the child and having a bond is the most important, so sorry for that
But I think this thread just highlights how little people really know about baptism, godparents and what signing your child up to the Catholic Church, for life, means and I just don't understand why people do something they don't understand, don't really care about or that won't be a significant part of the child's life. You are only prolonging the grip the church had on this country and over the development of the young child

Or, maybe some of us have some tiny grain of spirituality, and use the church for what it gives... some general moral guidelines, a place to discuss ethics and values, and a set of services to commemorate death, new life and marriage.

But feel free to trash anyone who is not exactly like you.

meeeeh

sari wrote: »

Well I think my first comment was a bit harsh as a few posters said spending time with the child and having a bond is the most important, so sorry for that
But I think this thread just highlights how little people really know about baptism, godparents and what signing your child up to the Catholic Church, for life, means and I just don't understand why people do something they don't understand, don't really care about or that won't be a significant part of the child's life. You are only prolonging the grip the church had on this country and over the development of the young child

Or some of us have no spirituality and like the day out for the family. What do you care.? I am certainly not going to live my life in the way overzealous religious or non religious people want me to. You can protest in front of a church or whatever but if I decide to have a baptism because it is important to grandparents or whomever I value more than some busy body on internet then that is what I will be doing. I am afraid you will have to fight your holy war without me.

sari

OK I think the two of you have taken my comment very badly and I didn't mean it like that. I think this thread just highlights what is the most important part of godparents and that seems to be presents. A few pwurple included said that it was about spending time with the child which is great and more what it should be about but the majority of comments say presents.
I'm not on any kind of holy war or protest, overboard a bit meeeh as usual. But the truth is the CC have huge power over the education of our children and the reason they continue to maintain this power is due to the amount of people baptising their children. If you go to church, practise the scarments are an active member of the church then of course baptise your child. The people who do it for the day out can't see past their own noses to see the negative impact this is having on education of options for our children.

OldNotWIse

amie91 wrote: »

I am a godmother to two little boys, I take them very regularly for a day out, swimming, sleepover etc. After all if anything did happen the Parents god firbid you are the caretaker. Pull up them socks and get at it Cant go wrong with the Cinema

- has the family law court been informed of this development?

meeeeh

sari wrote: »

The people who do it for the day out can't see past their own noses to see the negative impact this is having on education of options for our children.

That is BS. I was baptised as were most of my friends and most of our children. Despite majority of kids being christened there is no religious education in public schools at all, church can't even rent classrooms for the afternoon activities (any sports group or similar can).

I can see past my nose very well, I think you just blame ceremonial activities for the lack of public or political will. The fact is you and people like you who are so vocal on the issue are just not capable enough to persuade people that religion free schools would be the best. So no, how many kids get christened has f all to do with who has the patronage of schools.

Oh and ceremonial activities are usually done because people like to celebrate something with their family and friends not because they want to insure a steady stream of presents for their child.

pwurple

sari wrote: »

OK I think the two of you have taken my comment very badly and I didn't mean it like that. I think this thread just highlights what is the most important part of godparents and that seems to be presents. A few pwurple included said that it was about spending time with the child which is great and more what it should be about but the majority of comments say presents.
I'm not on any kind of holy war or protest, overboard a bit meeeh as usual. But the truth is the CC have huge power over the education of our children and the reason they continue to maintain this power is due to the amount of people baptising their children. If you go to church, practise the scarments are an active member of the church then of course baptise your child. The people who do it for the day out can't see past their own noses to see the negative impact this is having on education of options for our children.

Sari, I don't think religious education of any kind has a negative impact for a child. In fact, the only type of education which I think is potentially harmful, is where something is deliberately excluded. (including religion)

People not being fervent enough should surely be a good thing! Why on earth would we want more fundamentalism and a return to the DeValera way of life. Moderation in all things is best.

Sinister Kid

A friend of mine has a three year old god son, her cousins kid (she would be extremely close her family) When the mammy went back to work after maternity leave my mate wanted to help out so she takes her god son & their other three kids one day a week, does school runs & feeds them out of her own pocket. This is something she is happy to do and will do as long as she can.
Recently a friend of hers became pregnant, this friend is the needy type, calls when she wants a lift somewhere or wants her to mind the three kids, there is always something she wants and is always complaining... She has asked my mate to be godmother, which despite trying to put a bit of distance between them my mate said yes to. Now she has realised the this girl is expecting the same level of commitment as she gives to her cousins family. She is already calling her, to drive places because her feet are sore (She is only 16 weeks gone & even before the pregnancy wouldn't walk to the bus stop around the corner) She has gotten a couple of snotty texts of the girls partner about going to hospital visits. The type of couple these are they will expect Christmas presents, Birthday presents, Easter eggs and the likes for all four kids which is an expense my friend can not afford. My mate is torn over what to do, there is no way she can keep up with what will be expected of her and she feels her only option is to decline the offer. I personally don't blame her, I honestly thought she was crazy for saying yes in the first place.

sari

Pwurple absolutely totally agree with you. There is a place for religion in every school it's an important part of life and our children should learn about all religions in school. Honestly I agree with pretty much all you are saying.
meeeh it's very hard to have a sensible conversation about something when you just fly off the handle and take things so personally. I don't know what country you are in but here in Ireland over 90% of primary schools are run by the church and a big % of secondary schools are also run by the church. For example the county where I live had 1 educate together school every other primary school is Catholic with a very small % of church of Ireland. When I queried with the education dept why there was only 1 school in this county that does not have a religious ethos I was told that there is no need for it, I asked how this was determined and I was told that over 90%of children in this county are baptised into Catholic Church which shows that there is only need for Catholic schools. Now I live about an hour and half drive away from this 1 non denominational school so it is impossible for me to send my children there. I'm not religious, my child is not baptised, I want him to learn about all religions in an equal way and then make his own decision on his faith or spirituality. Now I know a huge amount of people who don't participate in church and openly talk about the failings of the church and what a shame they are yet the baptise their children and this is the situation I mean by not seeing past their nose they baptise because that's what you do but they either don't realise or care about the knock on effects of this. Yes I'm pissed because choice has been taken away from me and I will have to send me child to either a Catholic or church of Ireland school.

sari

Pwurple absolutely totally agree with you. There is a place for religion in every school it's an important part of life and our children should learn about all religions in school. Honestly I agree with pretty much all you are saying.
meeeh it's very hard to have a sensible conversation about something when you just fly off the handle and take things so personally. I don't know what country you are in but here in Ireland over 90% of primary schools are run by the church and a big % of secondary schools are also run by the church. For example the county where I live had 1 educate together school every other primary school is Catholic with a very small % of church of Ireland. When I queried with the education dept why there was only 1 school in this county that does not have a religious ethos I was told that there is no need for it, I asked how this was determined and I was told that over 90%of children in this county are baptised into Catholic Church which shows that there is only need for Catholic schools. Now I live about an hour and half drive away from this 1 non denominational school so it is impossible for me to send my children there. I'm not religious, my child is not baptised, I want him to learn about all religions in an equal way and then make his own decision on his faith or spirituality. Now I know a huge amount of people who don't participate in church and openly talk about the failings of the church and what a shame they are yet the baptise their children and this is the situation I mean by not seeing past their nose they baptise because that's what you do but they either don't realise or care about the knock on effects of this. Yes I'm pissed because choice has been taken away from me and I will have to send me child to either a Catholic or church of Ireland school.

sari

Meeeh I feel bad that you seem to have taken this so personally or like I am trying to attack you personally because that's not the case at all. This is an Internet forum and it's important to not take comments personally, unless of course it's clear that it is a personal attack on you which happens sometimes.
If you are happy with the reasons why you baptised your children then there is no issue I think my comments made it clear I was talking about people who do itfor the day oour, because that's what you do or for pressies and we all know that these people do exist. I never said you were one of them

meeeeh

But I am one of them. I don't do it for the presents but I do it for the day out. In fact we baptised the second one in our home country and it was great because all the family came and I saw people that I very often miss because lack of time.

I have an animated and abrupt way of expressing myself but that doesn't mean I am insulted or that I take things personally. There are a few issues though. I don't think I or anybody else owe anyone an explanation or apology for doing it, but I don't think many do it for the presents. And on seperate issue, the argument about the number of baptised kids is an excuse not to do things. Church can easily organize religious classes if there would be any political will to resolve things. But this would mean resolving the ownership of buildings, very often fundraising and dealing with unions regarding redundant religion teachers. I know very well how many schools are under some kind of religious patronage and I am far from being a fan of religious teachings in school. But I don't feel strongly cenough to pick an nondenominational school above denominational if I feel that kids will get better education there and will be involved in their neighbourhood activities. I and a lot of other parents are just practical in our approach and I am not going to apologize for it.

amdublin

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of christenings (me personally think unless you are going to practice with your child what is the point, but each to their own).

HOWEVER!
The mad people who seem to think that god parents automatically become guardians. Mad!

Yes that is why you picked three different godparents for your three children because you want them separated if god forbid you die???? Seriously?!

People really need to think about who they want to be guardians and specify it somewhere legal, it is not done in a church.

pwurple

sari wrote: »

For example the county where I live had 1 educate together school every other primary school is Catholic with a very small % of church of Ireland. When I queried with the education dept why there was only 1 school in this county that does not have a religious ethos I was told that there is no need for it, I asked how this was determined and I was told that over 90%of children in this county are baptised into Catholic Church which shows that there is only need for Catholic schools. Now I live about an hour and half drive away from this 1 non denominational school so it is impossible for me to send my children there.

Sari, I don't even know where to start with this.

For one, ET schools are not non-denominational, they are supposed to be multi-denominational.

Also, the ET schools are not some sort of holy grail either. The one I'm familiar with has an appaulling record for academics. The teachers in the secondary school the children go after it complain about the level of reading and maths coming out of it, and honestly I'd consider that sort of thing far more seriously than whether some of the other children in the class had communion or not. I have yet to hear a good word about the ET teaching methodology from any SNA, language therapist, or anyone who interacts with those schools professionally.

Baptism numbers have sweet FA to do with the current ownership of schools. It's a money issue, like everything else here. No-one in this country thought that the irish children were worth educating a few hundred years ago. Catholics built schools on their own land, in convents and next to churches. And they still own all the school buildings and the land ever since. There is no-one prevented from setting up any other schools. The sad fact is, the govt still doesn't do it. They wait for people to set up their own schools, and apply for funding for teachers. That's what our system looks like. If you want another form of school, it's up to you to go create it. It's not the catholic's fault that they didn't build a school for non-catholics for goodness sake.