Water metering to begin in Waterford on Monday

The_Shotz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just went out and had a look at what was installed outside our house. There are 2 things. I'd assume one in our stopcock that we can turn on and off ourselves and the other can only be opened by them? I didn't try to open them, as it's bucketing rain!

Yep that's them, the on/off valve and the other part is where the meter fits on. I presume if a meter is fitted they can adjust the water via the meter. If no meter is fitted it appears people can turn it on and off themselves.

Road-Hog

Does anyone have a copy of the letter that they received. Would like to see exactly what it said, name of contractor time frame for work etc

I know there is a large contract going on around Town at the minute relating to water main replacement rather than fitting of water meters. The letter could be something to do with this project

Sully

Road-Hog wrote: »

Does anyone have a copy of the letter that they received. Would like to see exactly what it said, name of contractor time frame for work etc

It's just a flyer with an estimated date. No specific times or specific days.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ritcg6wwdoyke6t/image.jpg

The other work Irish Water have been doing has been ongoing since before the election, if I am not mistaken. They did some work out in Tramore too. The work doesn't appear to impact houses so I assume it's unrelated.

allthedoyles

Deleted User wrote: »

I believe it's halved, not doubled.
eg A rate of €4.88 per 1,000 litres for households that use both water services and wastewater services (€2.44 per 1,000 litres if you only use one service)

Is there any other country in the world that charges exactly the same price per litre , for clean fresh water , and dirty waste water .

Road-Hog

What would be nice to know and there has been very little mentioned about it is how will those who have not hAd a meter fitted by say October this year be billed.........an estimate based on number of people residing in such houses?or just some sort of flat charge as we had with household charge. If what I have read is correct it could be up to two years before phase one of the metering project is complete. So some households may not get a proper metered bill for 12 to 18 months. Can anyone enlighten me.

Sully

Road-Hog wrote: »

What would be nice to know and there has been very little mentioned about it is how will those who have not hAd a meter fitted by say October this year be billed.........an estimate based on number of people residing in such houses?or just some sort of flat charge as we had with household charge. If what I have read is correct it could be up to two years before phase one of the metering project is complete. So some households may not get a proper metered bill for 12 to 18 months. Can anyone enlighten me.

Flat rate. Same way businesses can get it.

barneystinson

allthedoyles wrote: »

Is there any other country in the world that charges exactly the same price per litre , for clean fresh water , and dirty waste water .

But sure the water coming in and being used for flushing the toilet and bathing, is the same mains water that you drink...

The Bowling Alley

Doesn't seem right that the people whose appliances and pipes are being destroyed by the limescale in their water will now have to pay for that unfortunate privilege.

Cabaal

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Doesn't seem right that the people whose appliances and pipes are being destroyed by the limescale in their water will now have to pay for that unfortunate privilege.

Its naturally occurring though,
As we've seen, if the gov start adding things to water "some" people get upset and paranoid.

The Bowling Alley

Cabaal wrote: »

Its naturally occurring though,
As we've seen, if the gov start adding things to water "some" people get upset and paranoid.

Acid Rain is also naturally occurring. I don't you'd like that coming out of your shower though. And then having to pay for it.

Cabaal

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Acid Rain is also naturally occurring. I don't you'd like that coming out of your shower though. And then having to pay for it.

The natural occurrence of acid rain is generally down to volcanic activity, something the earth right now does not really experience alot of and hasn't done in recent times. (an volcano in Iceland is not alot of activity in the scale of things)

Current instances of acid rain are caused by human activity, very far from natural. This is why significantly affected area's include parts of China, USA, Russia/Eastern Europe as its down to pollution.,

Maybe try a better comparison in future

The Bowling Alley

Cabaal wrote: »

The natural occurrence of acid rain is generally down to volcanic activity, something the earth right now does not really experience alot of and hasn't done in recent times. (an volcano in Iceland is not alot of activity in the scale of things)

Current instances of acid rain are caused by human activity, very far from natural. This is why significantly affected area's include parts of China, USA, Russia/Eastern Europe as its down to pollution.,

Maybe try a better comparison in future

It was all I had at that moment.

The people weren't consulted about their water changing, they were just told that it was going to happen. It's costing houses a fortune, and now they have to pay more for it. Something not right there.

Sully

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

It was all I had at that moment.

The people weren't consulted about their water changing, they were just told that it was going to happen. It's costing houses a fortune, and now they have to pay more for it. Something not right there.

When do people ever get consulted about new taxation? When does a government ever go into public consultation? This was proposed before the election by the previous administration, it was in the Fine Gael program for government before the election, Labour made a huge deal about it as their election campaign and the EU/IMF agreement had it written in too. To suggest it came as a surprise is madness.

It's also cheaper than other European countries and our neighbours in the UK. Which makes no sense when you apply the (incorrect) logic that we get a lot more rain than they do. It's not costing a 'fortune' anyway!

Road-Hog

Sully wrote: »

Flat rate. Same way businesses can get it.

What is the flat rate though? €250, €350/annum ????

Cabaal

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

It was all I had at that moment.

fair enough

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

The people weren't consulted about their water changing, they were just told that it was going to happen.

But people voted for a party that said they would be introducing water charges,
It was plain as day in FG's manifesto before the last election.

If people vote for a party that wants to introduce something (even if for many it was a silly ill informed protest vote), how does it make sense that people then complain when this happens?

It doesn't really

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0215/finegaelmanifesto.pdf

Water Charging:
Fine Gael will introduce a fair funding model to deliver clean and reliable water. We will not ask home owners to pay for a broken and unreliable system and that is why Fine Gael will only introduce water charging after the establishment of a new State owned water utility company to take over responsibility from the separate local authorities for Ireland’s water infrastructure and to drive new
investment.

So FG:
- Established Irish water
- Are now introducing charges

Thats what they said they'd do if they got into government, has it been handled as best as it could?. No, but then most things are not introduced without feckup's in this country, this might be perhaps due to our poor respect for rules, regulations and the like (you've only to look at the avg joe's respect for basic motoring laws etc to see how little Irish people care for rules and efficiency's).

I guess this shows the danger of people blindly voting for any party,

Its up to people to be informed about a party and its policy's before they vote for them, in this case it seems most people just didn't bother.

Now before anyone goes accusing me of some silly FG bias, I'm not. Hell they didn't get my vote in the election at the time. I just wanted to point out the problem with people claiming they were never informed of this happening.

Sully

Road-Hog wrote: »

What is the flat rate though? €250, €350/annum ????

All of the figures have been published at the end of last month by the Commission of Energy Regulation. The CER are the ones deciding allowances and costing.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/unmetered-water-charges-how-will-it-work.html

The Bowling Alley

Guys, you both seem to misread what I said.

The people weren't consulted about their water CHANGING...not charging.

I get the charges...I'm bitter about the water being changed to a high limescale content...and then bitter about being charged X2 for that

Sully

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Guys, you both seem to misread what I said.

The people weren't consulted about their water CHANGING...not charging.

I get the charges...I'm bitter about the water being changed to a high limescale content...and then bitter about being charged X2 for that

Both of us have told you that it was repeatedly said before the election in many avenues that water would be charged for. What do you pay already for your limescaled water that you're now being charged double?

allthedoyles

allthedoyles wrote: »

Is there any other country in the world that charges exactly the same price per litre , for clean fresh water , and dirty waste water .

Uk charges slightly more for waste.

The Bowling Alley

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Guys, you both seem to misread what I said.

The people weren't consulted about their water CHANGING...not charging.

I get the charges...I'm bitter about the water being changed to a high limescale content...and then bitter about being charged X2 for that

Their water isn't changing. It's just got to be paid for. Where did you get the impression that it's being changed to a high limescale content? Don't understand what you think you're being charged twice for.

Sully

Deleted User wrote: »

Uk charges slightly more for waste.

The Dutch have what's called a 'waste water purification tax'.

That's another aspect that people forget about. What do people think actually happens when we flush the toilet or where our waste water goes?

The Bowling Alley

Deleted User wrote: »

Their water isn't changing. It's just got to be paid for. Where did you get the impression that it's being changed to a high limescale content? Don't understand what you think you're being charged twice for.

Jesus wept.

Okay...a few years ago, in Mooncoin (where I am) and South Kilkenny, the water was changed to a new source. This water was changing from soft to hard water. The public wasn't consulted about this, just told that it was CHANGING.

Now, the hard water ruins washing machines, ketttles, showers, dishwashers and pipes...all of these things subsequently need to be replaced. That aint cheap.

And now, myself and others are being asked to pay for this water which is destroying our home. And you all seem to think that's fine. The mind boggles.

Sully

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Okay...a few years ago, in Mooncoin (where I am) and South Kilkenny, the water was changed to a new source. This water was changing from soft to hard water. The public wasn't consulted about this, just told that it was CHANGING.

Now, the hard water ruins washing machines, ketttles, showers, dishwashers and pipes...all of these things subsequently need to be replaced. That aint cheap.

And now, myself and others are being asked to pay for this water which is destroying our home. And you all seem to think that's fine. The mind boggles.

You already do pay I hear what you are saying though. I've been in houses in the midlands with a similar issue and they pay for the water through a private scheme. Despite the water being undrinkable and it damaging the electric shower!

I'm not sure if anything can be done in your case, I don't know enough about it but I do know that Irish Water will provide rebates to households with poor water quality.

The Bowling Alley

Sully wrote: »

You already do pay I hear what you are saying though. I've been in houses in the midlands with a similar issue and they pay for the water through a private scheme. Despite the water being undrinkable and it damaging the electric shower!

I'm not sure if anything can be done in your case, I don't know enough about it but I do know that Irish Water will provide rebates to households with poor water quality.

That's if it's poor tasting etc. They don't consider water that rots your appliances to be pure quality.

Sully

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

That's if it's poor tasting etc. They don't consider water that rots your appliances to be pure quality.

Didn't know that. If that's the case, a rebate should most definitely apply. It would be a disgrace if it didn't.

The Bowling Alley

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Jesus wept.
Okay...a few years ago, in Mooncoin (where I am) and South Kilkenny, the water was changed to a new source. This water was changing from soft to hard water. The public wasn't consulted about this, just told that it was CHANGING.
Now, the hard water ruins washing machines, ketttles, showers, dishwashers and pipes...all of these things subsequently need to be replaced. That aint cheap.
And now, myself and others are being asked to pay for this water which is destroying our home. And you all seem to think that's fine. The mind boggles.

That was then. You seem to be implying that the current source of water is going to be changed. If it was, mightn't it be better than what you say is ruining your home? Domestic appliances don't last forever and will need to be replaced no matter what the water is like.

The Bowling Alley

Deleted User wrote: »

That was then. You seem to be implying that the current source of water is going to be changed. If it was, mightn't it be better than what you say is ruining your home? Domestic appliances don't last forever and will need to be replaced no matter what the water is like.

Where have I implied that the current source of water will be changed? I wish it was.

The_Shotz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That was then. You seem to be implying that the current source of water is going to be changed. If it was, mightn't it be better than what you say is ruining your home? Domestic appliances don't last forever and will need to be replaced no matter what the water is like.

That's true maryanne but people who currently have hard water need to replace their appliances much sooner then those who don't.

I currently know someone in the ferrybank area who has to replace the shower head and kettle every 6-10 months.

And to think those people will be charged the same, is not right.

Only concessions will to giving to those who's water is undrinkable

As previously stated that's not my reason for protesting against another tax, I don't know what the Celtic tiger has done to the Irish as we seem to have become a nation of conformes!

wellboytoo

The Bowling Alley wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Okay...a few years ago, in Mooncoin (where I am) and South Kilkenny, the water was changed to a new source. This water was changing from soft to hard water. The public wasn't consulted about this, just told that it was CHANGING.

Now, the hard water ruins washing machines, ketttles, showers, dishwashers and pipes...all of these things subsequently need to be replaced. That aint cheap.

And now, myself and others are being asked to pay for this water which is destroying our home. And you all seem to think that's fine. The mind boggles.

I have hard water I fixed it by putting on a treatment plant ,nothing stopping you doing that.I am on a well of my own, who will I bitch to when the pump blows?
Everyone has issues get over it.

The_Shotz

wellboytoo wrote: »

Everyone has issues get over it.

Divide and conquer at its best there.

He has a fair point, he will be paying a company for a service, the product he receives will not be as good quality as somebody else but yet he must pay the same as a person who receives a better quality product.

As for your pump I'm not sure who you argue with and thats another problem with Ireland, your punished for supplying yourself, which isn't right, there should be assistance for those who go through the cost of installing and running a well as well as septic tanks, but unfortunately the typical irish attitude exists here "uh nothing to do with us, that's your problem"

barneystinson

The_Shotz wrote: »

Divide and conquer at its best there.

He has a fair point, he will be paying a company for a service, the product he receives will not be as good quality as somebody else but yet he must pay the same as a person who receives a better quality product.

As for your pump I'm not sure who you argue with and thats another problem with Ireland, your punished for supplying yourself, which isn't right, there should be assistance for those who go through the cost of installing and running a well as well as septic tanks, but unfortunately the typical irish attitude exists here "uh nothing to do with us, that's your problem"

If mains water is available why should everyone else pay for a person to run a well / septic tank?

TheQuietFella

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/candidates-fail-to-pay-fines-after-slow-poster-take-down-30500249.html

We can sleep easy. What's good for the Goose....

Sully

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/candidates-fail-to-pay-fines-after-slow-poster-take-down-30500249.html

We can sleep easy. What's good for the Goose....

What's this got to do with 1) Waterford and 2) Water Charges?

TheQuietFella

I suppose I'm trying to put it in a more national framework rather than a local & not one
just associated with water charges but the issue of fines not being paid & no action being
taken against the people/political parties who put them there but for those who didn't pay their
property taxes were hit with fines which were taken from pay-packet!

Will these people be hit by revenue?

I laughed when I read this 'Waterford City and Council did not issue any poster fines. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/candidates-fail-to-pay-fines-after-slow-poster-take-down-30500249.html#sthash.9lfSzd6O.dpuf'

They are still around since the election prior to the last one!

shinzon

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I suppose I'm trying to put it in a more national framework rather than a local & not one
just associated with water charges but the issue of fines not being paid & no action being
taken against the people/political parties who put them there but for those who didn't pay their
property taxes were hit with fines which were taken from pay-packet!

Will these people be hit by revenue?

I laughed when I read this 'Waterford City and Council did not issue any poster fines. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/candidates-fail-to-pay-fines-after-slow-poster-take-down-30500249.html#sthash.9lfSzd6O.dpuf'

They are still around since the election prior to the last one!

In all honesty poster fines are nothing to do with Water charges, could you start a separate thread for this and keep this thread specifically for Water Metre discussion

Shin

Max Powers

I spoke to a friend living in Ferrybank area and he has hard water problem, apparently from what he heard from supplier (kk cc?) was that the water leaves the treatment plant fine but its the supply pipes that cause it to turn hard. Possibly not source issue then, although some reckon its due to change of supply so we dont know for sure whats causing it.
if it is the pipes causing it, its a ideal case for Irish Water/Govt to show why increased investment was needed.

Personally, i think, in general, everywhere outside of Dublin doesnt have a supply problem, apart from some bad treatment and pipes in places like Ferrybank, Rosscommon etc. However in Dublin, supply is an issue and that is a bigger problem. This could have been solved for everyone by increasing the property tax or some other tax by €100 and that 100 going straight to the old council water departments but now the govt have created a whole new organisation, probably overstaffed and over paid which has to be paid for and that will cost 300€ probably. Why didnt they do with first option of levying a water tax on people, well water tax doesnt sound great, not good for votes and people would be giving out stink about a new tax. If they treated the public with intelligence and said we can add this 100 tax or set up a new org which will probably cost more in a levy form.

O Riain

Max Powers wrote: »

I spoke to a friend living in Ferrybank area and he has hard water problem, apparently from what he heard from supplier (kk cc?) was that the water leaves the treatment plant fine but its the supply pipes that cause it to turn hard. Possibly not source issue then, although some reckon its due to change of supply so we dont know for sure whats causing it.
if it is the pipes causing it, its a ideal case for Irish Water/Govt to show why increased investment was needed.

Personally, i think, in general, everywhere outside of Dublin doesnt have a supply problem, apart from some bad treatment and pipes in places like Ferrybank, Rosscommon etc. However in Dublin, supply is an issue and that is a bigger problem. This could have been solved for everyone by increasing the property tax or some other tax by €100 and that 100 going straight to the old council water departments but now the govt have created a whole new organisation, probably overstaffed and over paid which has to be paid for and that will cost 300€ probably. Why didnt they do with first option of levying a water tax on people, well water tax doesnt sound great, not good for votes and people would be giving out stink about a new tax. If they treated the public with intelligence and said we can add this 100 tax or set up a new org which will probably cost more in a levy form.

Just so everyone knows. I pay around €500 a year for water that is extremely hard in the UK. The kettle is 2 weeks old and already has a serious crust on it and the shower head will have to be replaced.

I don't get a rebate or anything of the like for that.

barneystinson

O Riain wrote: »

Just so everyone knows. I pay around €500 a year for water that is extremely hard in the UK. The kettle is 2 weeks old and already has a serious crust on it and the shower head will have to be replaced.

I don't get a rebate or anything of the like for that.

Let us know when you're marching and we'll fill a piltown coaches bus and come over on the boat to support you...

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

It's not costing a 'fortune' anyway!

Tell that to the people on the breadline. This is not a charge to improve the water network. It is a tax to pay back the debts of the banks and "property developers".

Along with the Property Tax it shows this FG and Labour Government for what they really are.

The_Shotz

O Riain wrote: »

Just so everyone knows. I pay around €500 a year for water that is extremely hard in the UK. The kettle is 2 weeks old and already has a serious crust on it and the shower head will have to be replaced.

I don't get a rebate or anything of the like for that.

I think that post shows what will happen in Ireland, you will now pay for water without any improvement of quality.

Sully

The_Shotz wrote: »

I think that post shows what will happen in Ireland, you will now pay for water without any improvement of quality.

Why? Because one country doesn't improve it's services nationwide doesn't mean Ireland will do the same thing. Already there are talk of various rebates and the cost of water is cheaper than the UK. So already the country isn't going down the same line.

The_Shotz

Sully wrote: »

Why? Because one country doesn't improve it's services nationwide doesn't mean Ireland will do the same thing. Already there are talk of various rebates and the cost of water is cheaper than the UK. So already the country isn't going down the same line.

Prices are currently cheaper but you must remember this is its first year. I would expect prices to increase in the coming years just like every other utility bill.

Will we be saying we're cheaper in 5-10 years time, who knows, time will tell, but I reckon we will see free allowances lowered and price increases.

Also these rebates are only for areas with undrinkable water.

All that and the eventual privatisation.

Sully

The_Shotz wrote: »

Prices are currently cheaper but you must remember this is its first year. I would expect prices to increase in the coming years just like every other utility bill.

Will we be saying we're cheaper in 5-10 years time, who knows, time will tell, but I reckon we will see free allowances lowered and price increases.

Also these rebates are only for areas with undrinkable water.

All that and the eventual privatisation.

There are rebates for people who get overcharged and there is assistance for people who struggle to pay.

As for this privatisation theory - I addressed that earlier.

Road-Hog

Sully wrote: »

There are rebates for people who get overcharged and there is assistance for people who struggle to pay.

As for this privatisation theory - I addressed that earlier.

Privatisation of IW will require amendments to legislation so it won't happen overnight.....however we all know how 'emergency legislation' can be rammed through plus election promises reneged on. The other question would be if government subventions are stripped out of IW's budget would it be that attractive for some private entity to acquire and run. No subvention would mean a doubling of charges or more. The 12 year agreement with local authorities may not last the full term but in any case it will defer privatisation for the short term as in 5 to 10 years. According to some Denis o Brien has already the deal done with government and will have IW IN HIS GREASY paws soon.

Sully

Road-Hog wrote: »

Privatisation of IW will require amendments to legislation so it won't happen overnight.....however we all know how 'emergency legislation' can be rammed through plus election promises reneged on. The other question would be if government subventions are stripped out of IW's budget would it be that attractive for some private entity to acquire and run. No subvention would mean a doubling of charges or more. The 12 year agreement with local authorities may not last the full term but in any case it will defer privatisation for the short term as in 5 to 10 years. According to some Denis o Brien has already the deal done with government and will have IW IN HIS GREASY paws soon.

*yawn*

If the government or so intent on privatisation, surely they would sell of the ESB & Board Gais networks? And this Denis O'Brien nonsense. He runs the company that fits your meter. And your Sky. And your UPC. Is he taking over Sky & UPC too? I heard that deal was done.

Conspiracy Theories to the Conspiracy Forum tbh.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

*yawn*

If the government or so intent on privatisation, surely they would sell of the ESB & Board Gais networks? And this Denis O'Brien nonsense. He runs the company that fits your meter. And your Sky. And your UPC. Is he taking over Sky & UPC too? I heard that deal was done.

Conspiracy Theories to the Conspiracy Forum tbh.

Have we learned anything in this country? At all?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

So already the country isn't going down the same line.

Oh yes it is. Within years you will pay €1000 a year for water and €1000 a year property tax. It is inevitable.

barneystinson

7upfree wrote: »

Oh yes it is. Within years you will pay €1000 a year for water and €1000 a year property tax. It is inevitable.

Sure property tax already can cost 1k if your property is valuable enough... and ditto water charges, if you use enough.

But anyway, I assume you mean the average cost?

It's easy to make a statement like that, when inflation will eventually make you right... :rolleyes:

So, put your cards on the table - how many years, until the real average costs of both water and LPT reach the equivalent of 1k in 2014...?? I reckon not in the next 20 years anyway.

Sully

barneystinson wrote: »

Sure property tax already can cost 1k if your property is valuable enough... and ditto water charges, if you use enough.

But anyway, I assume you mean the average cost?

It's easy to make a statement like that, when inflation will eventually make you right... :rolleyes:

So, put your cards on the table - how many years, until the real average costs of both water and LPT reach the equivalent of 1k in 2014...?? I reckon not in the next 20 years anyway.

Sure, if Sinn Fein get into government these taxes are going to be scrapped. No worries!

7upfree

barneystinson wrote: »

Sure property tax already can cost 1k if your property is valuable enough... and ditto water charges, if you use enough.

But anyway, I assume you mean the average cost?

It's easy to make a statement like that, when inflation will eventually make you right... :rolleyes:

So, put your cards on the table - how many years, until the real average costs of both water and LPT reach the equivalent of 1k in 2014...?? I reckon not in the next 20 years anyway.

I would say quite easily the next 5 to seven years. Watch this space. Greed will overtake it all.