ISIS are pure evil.

SEPT 23 1989

Its a real pity now that we actually have an enemy we can all agree needs to be wiped off the face of the earth the US and the UK cant/wont go in on the ground to do the job

Renegade Mechanic

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Its a real pity now that we actually have an enemy we can all agree needs to be wiped off the face of the earth the US and the UK cant/wont go in on the ground to do the job

UK have little to gain by kissing American arse now and at about 14 trillion under, American cant really afford to do much.

Cantremember

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Its a real pity now that we actually have an enemy we can all agree needs to be wiped off the face of the earth the US and the UK cant/wont go in on the ground to do the job

Why should British and American lives be lost because Boards.ie says so? Write to your local TD and ask for the Irish Defence Forces to look after it for you.

Secondly ISIS is a religious movement and they believe that Allah wills their campaign into being and they are his agents. Ideas like that die off when people gradually realise that religion is just made up man made fantasies. Look how long it has taken Ireland. ISIS or something like it will be in the Middle East long after all of us are dead and gone.

Chattastrophe!

Does anyone know what numbers are involved, i.e. how many members does ISIS actually have?

A Primal Nut

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Does anyone know what numbers are involved, i.e. how many members does ISIS actually have?

7000 according to this. Just 800 of them took Mosul.

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/20/5824480/why-the-iraqi-army-cant-defeat-isis

Edit: More numbers here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/12/how-battle-ready-isis-iraqi-army-peshmerga

A Primal Nut

Kinda hope ISIS attack Israel or Iran soon. Either of those would destroy ISIS.

comongethappy

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Kinda hope ISIS attack Israel or Iran soon. Either of those would destroy ISIS.

They have a huge amount of territory to cover to reach Iran.
The would probably stretch themselves.
(Though if people flock to their banner,who knows?)

A Primal Nut

comongethappy wrote: »

They have a huge amount of territory to cover to reach Iran.
The would probably stretch themselves.
(Though if people flock to their banner,who knows?)

Mosul is about halfway between Syria and iran border. Erbil the city that may be next to fall is only 189km from Iranian border. That said I don't expect them to be stupid enough to attack Iran anytime soon but they believe God is guiding them so you never know.

LorMal

A Primal Nut wrote: »

7000 according to this. Just 800 of them took Mosul.

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/20/5824480/why-the-iraqi-army-cant-defeat-isis

Edit: More numbers here:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/12/how-battle-ready-isis-iraqi-army-peshmerga

A relatively small number. I think the problem is that there are many similar (though not so extreme) Sunni groups who may fight alongside them -especially as they are having such an impact internationally.

On another point, does anyone else think that there is a sex motive to a lot of this Islamic fundamental jihadist stuff?
They are always raping their female victims. ISIS setting up sex slave camps. The kidnapping and rape of schoolgirls in Nigeria and Iraq. The promise of 70 virgins for suicide bombers.
Seems to me to be a link between the repression of women in Islam and the vicious warped sexual oppression of these 'warriors of Allah'.

A Primal Nut

LorMal wrote: »

A relatively small number. I think the problem is that there are many similar (though not so extreme) Sunni groups who may fight alongside them -especially as they are having such an impact internationally.

On another point, does anyone else think that there is a sex motive to a lot of this Islamic fundamental jihadist stuff?
They are always raping their female victims. ISIS setting up sex slave camps. The kidnapping and rape of schoolgirls in Nigeria and Iraq. The promise of 70 virgins for suicide bombers.
Seems to me to be a link between the repression of women in Islam and the vicious warped sexual oppression of these 'warriors of Allah'.

The irony is that in the areas they take over genders are separated and sex outside marriage is condemned. Except for ISIS themselves when they are raping women.

Their whole logic is messed up but definitely the repression of sex in these places warps their view on sex and women in all kinds of crazy ways.

Billy86

woodoo wrote: »

Lets continue with Muslim immigration into Europe it can only end well

It would be interesting to see how it compares to all that Christian immigration to the rest of the world down the years.

nacho libre

The saddam loyalists and the sunni tribes will turn on ISIS sooner or later. it's also likely various intelligence agencies, even countries who are hostile to each other, are working behind the scenes to identify and take out the ISIS leadership. With all these forces pitted against them, i think ISIS will be defeated.

LorMal

Billy86 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see how it compares to all that Christian immigration to the rest of the world down the years.

You can mock but he has a point. There has been an incredible Muslim influx into Europe over the past 30 years. This may fundementally change the nature of our societies in the long term. They have not been shy in demanding their rights to
maintain their culture and religious adherence here, even when some of their practices (wearing burkas etc) are contrary to our culture.
They do not afford westerners the same latitude in their own countries, far from it.
We have a ridiculous tendency here to beat ourselves up, to blame ourselves for the rise of fundamentalism, to say that we are as bad as the jihadists.
To my mind, this is a luxury afforded only to those who live in free societies. Most people on here have not the first clue what it's like to live under the daily oppression of a fundementalist regime. (even worse than Fine Gael!).
We are so much more open, more tolerant, more welcoming, more civilised, more generous than the vast majority of regimes in the Middle East or North Africa.
We should be proud of our values in the West and we should fight fire with fire against these medieval savages.

Foxhound38

I'm not normally one to dive at military options out of hand, but I really don't think an operation like ISIS can be dealt with any other way. Perhaps the UN needs to act - pass a security council motion and send in a force to hit them hard, fast and eradicate them before this situation gets even more out of control.

I've seen the photos in the OP's post - not a pretty sight :mad:

S.O

If the ISIS are evil, what does that make Islam ? from reading verious news reports the ISIS are other groups convert to Islam or die, but wait a sec isn,t that what the koran preaches in different verses to go after those who don,t believe in Islam, giving what the ISIS are doing, some may argue the ISIS are practicing true Islam.

(Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,)

([2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.)

( K 9:029 Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.)

Donkey Oaty

There are also liberal interpretations of all that nasty stuff in the Koran - it's like every holy book insofar as you decide what you want it to say and then go and interpret whatever you find.

opinionated3

Awful pity John mccain didn't get elected in 08 instead of that procrastinator obama...

markfla

opinionated3 wrote: »

Awful pity John mccain didn't get elected in 08 instead of that procrastinator obama...

This John McCain??
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10527447_10152308716282663_5157582610359199431_n.png

spook_house

S.O wrote: »

If the ISIS are evil, what does that make Islam ? from reading verious news reports the ISIS are other groups convert to Islam or die, but wait a sec isn,t that what the koran preaches in different verses to go after those who don,t believe in Islam, giving what the ISIS are doing, some may argue the ISIS are practicing true Islam.

(Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers,)

([2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.)

( K 9:029 Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.)

Isis are not at all.typical of the global Muslim population but islam if followed seriously is not at all compatible with western lifestyles

Sand

opinionated3 wrote: »

Awful pity John mccain didn't get elected in 08 instead of that procrastinator obama...

It is ironic that Obama was elected pretty much on the program of ending American deployment in Iraq at pretty much any cost. McCain was slated for taking the more realistic view that an American presence would be required in Iraq for decades to come (though he meant largely in the way that there has been an American presence in Japan and Germany for decades).

Obama pulled out...but only a few years later he is already putting the USAF back into Iraq, almost certainly has "advisor" working with Kurdish and other US friendly groups, seems to have no real sway with the Iraqi government and must be seriously considering sending ground troops if Northern Iraq continues to crumble like a deck of cards. An ounce of prevention would have been worth a pound of cure.

Though it has to be taken into account that if the Iraqi government continues its corruption and infighting, US military action is only a bandaid. They cant run the country for the Iraqis.

spook_house

Highflyer13 wrote: »

From what I've read, a lot of Western educated youth have joined ISIS. Closer to home I'd be fairly worried about these nutjobs appearing on our own doorstep in time. Maybe the seeds are already sown in the UK. Time will tell I suppose. But one things for sure, these savages need to be crushed now.

I'm still left wondering why.Ireland will remain unchanged by Islamic immigration , be it a population or a food recipe , if you introduce a new culture , what was there before changes

spook_house

crockholm wrote: »

The ass clown that shot up the Jewish museum in Brussels earlier this year previously spent time with them and their allies in the syrian war.

And it's not just the UK,Denmark Estimates that at least 100"Danes" are fighting for the islamist cause in the levant-to date 15 have been killed in battle.Many European countries are seeing mostly Young muslims make their way to the fighting.AFAIK France and Spain will imprison people found trying to leave the countries to wage jihad.

It is a real security threat for many European nations.

Racist !

wretcheddomain

ISIS are, unfortunately, the real Muslims.

They're far more Muslim than most so-called 'moderates' today - as they follow the Q'uran as it's supposed to be followed, according to Mohammed anyway.

They have scriptural authority for all their actions and no 'moderation' will dilute the meaning in the text itself.

spook_house

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I'd be more supportive of banning the practice of all religions in public across Europe. Let people worship what they want to worship in their own homes. Too many stupid people on the planet brainwashed by it trying to force their views on others. That goes for all religions!

Yeah when beheadings occur in the name of Allah , it's only fair budhism , Christianity and Jedi,sm get to share some of the blame

pablo128

If the Yanks can arm the Israeli army to fight palestinians, why can't they arm the Iraqi army to fight ISIS? Or is that too simplistic?

Steodonn

pablo128 wrote: »

If the Yanks can arm the Israeli army to fight palestinians, why can't they arm the Iraqi army to fight ISIS? Or is that too simplistic?

They did then the Iraqi army ran away and ISIS stole all the weapons

opinionated3

pablo128 wrote: »

If the Yanks can arm the Israeli army to fight palestinians, why can't they arm the Iraqi army to fight ISIS? Or is that too simplistic?

I wouldn't bother. They are too simple themselves. Send in the best. When faced with evil, which undoubtedly Isis are, throw everything you got at them. ... Marines navy army etc. To hell with what mick wallace says! !!😊

pablo128

opinionated3 wrote: »

I wouldn't bother. They are too simple themselves. Send in the best. When faced with evil, which undoubtedly Isis are, throw everything you got at them. ... Marines navy army etc. To hell with what mick wallace says! !!😊

Well another way of looking at it would be to say if you were a country in that region coming under attack, why bother fighting them? Why not just give the Yanks a shout?

nacho libre

nacho libre wrote: »

The saddam loyalists and the sunni tribes will turn on ISIS sooner or later. it's also likely various intelligence agencies, even countries who are hostile to each other, are working behind the scenes to identify and take out the ISIS leadership. With all these forces pitted against them, i think ISIS will be defeated.

Indeed ISIS should be defeated, it's just a question of how many innocent lives have to be ended before that happens. It's not like the Middle East is short of military firepower after all.

Iraq should have been able to defeat them (they outnumbered ISIS by twenty to one and had US weapons at their disposal) but they ran away and abandoned their weapons instead. I guess they don't feel loyal enough to their government to feel like it's worth fighting for or something. *shrug*

Israel should be able to defeat them but they're preoccupied with bombing schools in Gaza instead (though if ISIS manage to break into Jordan they might be spurred to do something, given that Jordan is the closest thing they have to an ally in the region). It would be good PR for the IDF if they manage to wipe ISIS off the map.

Syria should be able to defeat them but the theory (according to John McCain anyway) is that Bashar al-Assad is waiting for them to commit more and more atrocities so that the West will see how evil they are and decide that his (Assad's) regime is a preferable alternative. It looks like Assad is essentially luring ISIS into Syria so that he'll have support from the West to drive them out. It's like a really weird game of chess or something.

LorMal

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed ISIS should be defeated, it's just a question of how many innocent lives have to be ended before that happens. It's not like the Middle East is short of military firepower after all.

Iraq should have been able to defeat them (they outnumbered ISIS by twenty to one and had US weapons at their disposal) but they ran away and abandoned their weapons instead. I guess they don't feel loyal enough to their government to feel like it's worth fighting for or something. *shrug*

Israel should be able to defeat them but they're preoccupied with bombing schools in Gaza instead (though if ISIS manage to break into Jordan they might be spurred to do something, given that Jordan is the closest thing they have to an ally in the region). It would be good PR for the IDF if they manage to wipe ISIS off the map.

Syria should be able to defeat them but the theory (according to John McCain anyway) is that Bashar al-Assad is waiting for them to commit more and more atrocities so that the West will see how evil they are and decide that his (Assad's) regime is a preferable alternative. It looks like Assad is essentially luring ISIS into Syria so that he'll have support from the West to drive them out. It's like a really weird game of chess or something.

very interesting - did not know that. Makes sense.