ISIS are pure evil.

Tony EH

Manic Moran wrote: »

The best course of action can never be determined by looking at the past. It is determined by the situation as it presents itself, the past can only serve to inform.

Those who ignore the past...I'm sure you know the rest.

Learning from past "mistakes" is always a good starting point for future endeavours.

Manic Moran wrote: »

ISIS is not Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Grenada, Haiti, Philippines, Libya, the Falklands, or any other situation that the West has found itself concerned with.

No. ISIS is not like any country. They're a terrorist group the number less than 50,000 strong. So what's to be done? Bombing? Bombing who? Who's a member of ISIS and who isn't? So, if bombing is carried out and kills innocents, you drive people into the hands of ISIS and a fail occurs. Boots on the ground? That also, inevitably, drives people into ISIS hands and leads to another fail. Believe it or not, the majority of the people of the Middle East don't want Americans or Brits in their countries. They just strange like that, I guess.

So, what probably needs to happen is that the Middle East need to be left to sort out their ISIS problem themselves, with the west fücking things up.

One thing the "west" can do if they really want to help is stop supporting the House of Saud, as a lot of fingers point to them as supporters of terrorist organisations. THAT alone would be a very good start. They can also stop from flooding the area with weapons to any crazy group that happens to be against somebody the "west" don't like any more. Untold damage has been done with that kind of interference in Iraq, Libya and Syria.

Playboy

nokia69 wrote: »

it don't take much for a woman to be accused of prostitution in the middle east

a woman in a t-shirt and jeans would be spat on and called a whore in Cairo

haha ok! You say it like it would be a common occurrence. Try visiting Cairo, lots of people in t-shirts and jeans. Go a few miles north to Alexandria and Marina in the summer and you will see lots of Egyptians and Arabs in Bikini's.

Alias G

FalconGirl wrote: »

Ha women of the world join together to fight ISIS. I like it!

Can I send my missus over?

nokia69

Playboy wrote: »

haha ok! You say it like it would be a common occurrence. Try visiting Cairo, lots of people in t-shirts and jeans. Go a few miles north to Alexandria and Marina in the summer and you will see lots of Egyptians and Arabs in Bikini's.

No doubt you will tell me India is a great place for woman too

Playboy

nokia69 wrote: »

No doubt you will tell me India is a great place for woman too

Lol... Read my post. I didn't say it didn't happen on occasion. But saying that girls can't wear a t-shirt and jeans in Cairo without getting spat on is nonsense of the highest order. Have you ever been or are you just surfing YouTube for all your evidence? Watch some Egyptian movies or TV.. Plenty of girls in jeans and t-shirts and no saliva in sight.

Lots of weird and sexist **** happens in Europe too.. It doesn't mean it's the norm

nokia69

Playboy wrote: »

Lol... Read my post. I didn't say it didn't happen on occasion. But saying that girls can't wear a t-shirt and jeans in Cairo without getting spat on is nonsense of the highest order. Have you ever been or are you just surfing YouTube for all your evidence? Watch some Egyptian movies or TV.. Plenty of girls in jeans and t-shirts and no saliva in sight.

Lots of weird and sexist **** happens in Europe too.. It doesn't mean it's the norm

if you think that the arab/muslim world is the same for woman as Europe then you are deluded

and yes I know Europe is not perfect

so if some islamic scumbag calls a woman a whore it could be for any number of reasons and have nothing to do with her having sex for money

Shurimgreat

Lets be honest, if the Islamists had their way every woman in the middle east would be locked up at home, need a man to accompany them everywhere when going out and wear a full burqua 24/7. They make absolutely no bones about this. And this is not a small minority of fanatics. This is a large number of muslim men who would like to see this.

The only thing stopping that happening is western values and western leaning leaders in the region.

Still there are some people who think life would be better in the middle east without western influences. Would it really? Yes for men of course it would. For women though?

The middle east will always be a basket case. Doesn't mean we should look the other way when one ethnic minority or another is being wiped out by a majority.

Blaming the west for the ills of the middle east is just lazy and ridiculous.

As for people saying western interference in Afghanistan made things worse, trying tell the women freed from Taliban control, in school or allowed vote.

Roger Hassenforder

Tony EH wrote: »

Those who ignore the past...I'm sure you know the rest.

Learning from past "mistakes" is always a good starting point for future endeavours.

No. ISIS is not like any country. They're a terrorist group the number less than 50,000 strong. So what's to be done? Bombing? Bombing who? Who's a member of ISIS and who isn't? So, if bombing is carried out and kills innocents, you drive people into the hands of ISIS and a fail occurs. Boots on the ground? That also, inevitably, drives people into ISIS hands and leads to another fail. Believe it or not, the majority of the people of the Middle East don't want Americans or Brits in their countries. They just strange like that, I guess.

So, what probably needs to happen is that the Middle East need to be left to sort out their ISIS problem themselves, with the west fücking things up.

One thing the "west" can do if they really want to help is stop supporting the House of Saud, as a lot of fingers point to them as supporters of terrorist organisations. THAT alone would be a very good start. They can also stop from flooding the area with weapons to any crazy group that happens to be against somebody the "west" don't like any more. Untold damage has been done with that kind of interference in Iraq, Libya and Syria.

absolute nonsense.
They've effectively become a state. there has never been an entity like ISIS in the ME, so we cant draw on past learnings, only on what seems to be working. They're now the common enemy of almost every organization in the region.

Current strategy of air support to local fighters on the ground is working for the Kurds around Kobane. Need to extend that air and logistical to other Sunni tribes in Anbar, to provide training, and if not actual light weapons, "defensive equipment". Let them be the boots on the ground. Use drones/air support to take out armor and positions rather than giving heavier equipment to those that might use it against their suppliers, after switching allegiances.

The Syrians seem to be holding their own with ISIS, Al Nusra and Harakat Hazm are about to really go for each other. As IS is squeezed from North by Kurds (who presumably will ease off once they've ISIS pushed out of their territory), by western tribes/alliances (Albu Nimr,Shammar, Obaid etc.) from within, Jordan from SW, Syrians from W, Iraq from E they'll collapse. When the yanks were in Iraq fighting AQ, they got some of these tribes to unite in the "Sunni Awakening" but abandoned them in 2010 to the vicissitudes of the region and the Maliki farce. They're asking for help again. If they arent supported, they'll back the local winning horse, ISIS.

Also, at the moment its mainly Sunni V. Sunni V. Shia, if Iran fully intervenes, it will become polarized to Shia V. Sunni.

Once defeated as a conventional force, then the conversation can start about staying the f**k out of ME politics. And Saudi. And Israel. We mightn't like the result, but at least the West wont be responsible this time.

obplayer

nokia69 wrote: »

if you think that the arab/muslim world is the same for woman as Europe then you are deluded insane.

and yes I know Europe is not perfect

so if some islamic scumbag calls a woman a whore it could be for any number of reasons and have nothing to do with her having sex for money

FYP

Roger Hassenforder

Playboy wrote: »

Lol... Read my post. I didn't say it didn't happen on occasion. But saying that girls can't wear a t-shirt and jeans in Cairo without getting spat on is nonsense of the highest order. Have you ever been or are you just surfing YouTube for all your evidence? Watch some Egyptian movies or TV.. Plenty of girls in jeans and t-shirts and no saliva in sight.

Lots of weird and sexist **** happens in Europe too.. It doesn't mean it's the norm

Here's a report from the Guardian of the impact the election of the Muslim Brotherhood had on the lives of women before they were violently, but popularly tossed out:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/31/egypt-cairo-women-rights-revolution

they're back wearing jeans again maybe.

Roger Hassenforder

Manic Moran wrote: »

Not that new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

FFS will people stop dragging Buddhist whataboutery into this again...
oh wait...

I see now...

ivytwine

I tend to lean to "bleeding heart" but this is ridiculous. The only person responsible for Jihadi John is Muhammad Emwazi.

http://www.cageuk.org/press-release/jihadi-john-radicalised-britain

supersean1999

ivytwine wrote: »

I tend to lean to "bleeding heart" but this is ridiculous. The only person responsible for Jihadi John is Muhammad Emwazi.

http://www.cageuk.org/press-release/jihadi-john-radicalised-britain

Did he write that himself, the deranged animal

PeteFalk78

Zebra3 wrote: »

Of course there is.

They both murder innocent people.

The U.S. has a long history of funding terrorist campaigns so stop doing your intelligence a disservice by denying any similarity when it's obvious to the blind.

You've got to love the anti-American agendas around here. Blaming them for all the wrongs within the world.

In ANY war there will be a higher number of civilian casualties over military casualties. So if you want to compare collateral damage to genocide/ethnic cleansing then go right ahead - but don't expect anybody to engage a reasoned debate with you.

Wurzelbert

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You care about statues and paintings more than the innocent men, women and children? And then you claim to have the moral high ground :rolleyes:

as i said before, this is not about the moral high ground anyway...this is a war between radical islam and the western world and some others, and in wars people get killed...if you can develop “guilt seeker” bombs and missiles that would spare the innocent, then go ahead...until then war will be messy and there will be collateral damage and some innocents will die with all the rest...if you happen to be the innocent baby of murderous isis killers, then you may get killed with them and can only hope for justice in the afterlife...the world is a bad place...
and yes, i do think some of those assyrian cultural treasures are worth more than all isis members and followers combined...and why should we value those radicals’ lives higher than they do themselves anyway? yet a question like “how much are the pyramids of giza worth in human lives?” would be an interesting discussion on its own...

Tony EH

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

In ANY war there will be a higher number of civilian casualties over military casualties.

Wrong Columbo.

Timberrrrrrrr

Wurzelbert wrote: »

as i said before, this is not about the moral high ground anyway...this is a war between radical islam and the western world and some others, and in wars people get killed...if you can develop “guilt seeker” bombs and missiles that would spare the innocent, then go ahead...until then war will be messy and there will be collateral damage and some innocents will die with all the rest...if you happen to be the innocent baby of murderous isis killers, then you may get killed with them and can only hope for justice in the afterlife...the world is a bad place...
and yes, i do think some of those assyrian cultural treasures are worth more than all isis members and followers combined...and why should we value those radicals’ lives higher than they do themselves anyway? yet a question like “how much are the pyramids of giza worth in human lives?” would be an interesting discussion on its own...

Do you think a piece of rock is worth the lives of innocent people? How many babies and children would you be willing to kill for the pyramids? 1? 100? 10,000?

bnt

I think some folks here aren't quite getting it. As already pointed out, ISIS are not the first Muslim group who have gone after historic artifacts and monuments, but why are they doing it? It's because ISIS is a totalitarian monoculture that demands complete control over what people see, hear and learn, including history. The idea that there was any culture other than Islam, or any culture before Islam, is intolerable.

In the minds of the people, there can be only the approved Salafist brand of Islam - past, present, and future. One message. No alternatives. They don't ever want people asking questions such as "is there a better way to live?"

PeteFalk78

Tony EH wrote: »

Wrong Columbo.

Well any decent one anyway

Roger Hassenforder

ivytwine wrote: »

I tend to lean to "bleeding heart" but this is ridiculous. The only person responsible for Jihadi John is Muhammad Emwazi.

http://www.cageuk.org/press-release/jihadi-john-radicalised-britain

Asim Qureshi, Research Director of CAGE, said: "Like Michael Adebolajo, suffocating domestic policies aimed at turning a person into an informant but which prevent a person from fulfilling their basic life needs would have left a lasting impression on Emwazi. He desperately wanted to use the system to change his situation, but the system ultimately rejected him."

So Adebolago and buddy hacking off lee rigby's head was really a cry for help!
These apologists would make you f**king sick.

Playboy

nokia69 wrote: »

if you think that the arab/muslim world is the same for woman as Europe then you are deluded

and yes I know Europe is not perfect

so if some islamic scumbag calls a woman a whore it could be for any number of reasons and have nothing to do with her having sex for money

Did I say it was the same? I know its fckin not... I am in Cairo about 3/4 times a year and I own property there. I know first hand what the Arab world is like so spare me the BS. You claimed that a woman couldn't wear jeans and a t-shirt in Cairo without getting spat on and called a whore. That is an outright lie that you would be aware of if you had ever been to place. If that was truly the way things are then people would just spend their whole day spitting and swearing. I'm not saying that Cairo/Egypt doesnt have issues with sexual harassment... it is a very patriarchal society and is a city of 22 million with extreme poverty. There are a lot of nutters about, some religious, some not. But lets deal with reality here, Cairo isnt anything like Saudi Arabia.

Wurzelbert

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you think a piece of rock is worth the lives of innocent people? How many babies and children would you be willing to kill for the pyramids? 1? 100? 10,000?

i’d say we discuss that once isis have taken over egypt and are actually going to work on the pre-islamic monuments there...needless to say i cannot give you a number, and this is more of a philosophical question anyway...also interesting to see how little some around here seem to value mankind’s cultural legacy...

nokia69

Playboy wrote: »

Did I say it was the same? I know its fckin not... I am in Cairo about 3/4 times a year and I own property there. I know first hand what the Arab world is like so spare me the BS. You claimed that a woman couldn't wear jeans and a t-shirt in Cairo without getting spat on and called a whore. That is an outright lie that you would be aware of if you had ever been to place. If that was truly the way things are then people would just spend their whole day spitting and swearing. I'm not saying that Cairo/Egypt doesnt have issues with sexual harassment... it is a very patriarchal society and is a city of 22 million with extreme poverty. There are a lot of nutters about, some religious, some not. But lets deal with reality here, Cairo isnt anything like Saudi Arabia.

no BS from me just the facts

its common place for women to suffer from serious sexual harassment on the streets of Egypt and the arab world

its even common in the muslim parts of Europe

so its no surprise to me that ISIS would claim that a woman in a red coat must be a prostitute

oh and BTW I have been to egypt and a few other arab countries

keanosbeard

FINALLY cageprisonsers AKA cageprisoners ltd AKA Cage (proprietor Mozaam Begg, prominent Taliban supporter with an unfortunate predeliction for being "caught up" in "charity work" in the wrong place at the wrong time ) have FINALLY been shown up in the mainstream media for what they really stand for.

Lets hope some very bright lights are shone on them, beause so far they have been given soft soaping which goes to show the clusterf**k that is the interface between lefty handwringing and Islamfacism ( where the Decadent West and the Great Shaytan are wholly responsible for the ills of Islamofacism and Islamic Fundamentalism )

This is an organisation that has been repeated rolled out by the BBC as a " Human Rights " organisation with all the respectability and benigness that confers; the Guardian have repeatedly given their principals print space to espouce their version of "Human Rights", they have been funded by supposed liberals such as the Joseph Roundtree Foundation and Anita Roddick and they feting by Amnesty International caused a major public row which saw prominent Amnesty International head of Gender Unit Gita Sahgal suspended after she questions whether Amnesty should be promoting Cage as a Human Rights organisation where there were considerable concerns over their interpretation of " Human Rights ".

Cage spokesman Asim Qureshi can be found on video " espousing Jihad " outside the US Embassy in London.

It is reported that on a TV programme in 2012 featuring an interview with Mozaam Begg and Asim Qureshi, in expressing their support for the precise implementation of Sharia Law, Qureshi expressed personal support for the principle of death by stoning for adultery and other death penalties prescribed by Islamic law "as long as all due process elements are met".

And these folk are feted by the British Left as " Human Rights " and " Charity " campaigners. This is f**ked up situation we have where the foxes have been let into the European hen house and stroked and petted.

Joining a bunch of murderous racist paedophile rapists and beheading innocent aid workers. Clearly the fault of the " Decandent West " in denying you the human right to go on Jihad with Islamofacists Al Shabbab.

We are f*cked.

keanosbeard

I was just wondering whether the western female reporter, sorry of course two western female reporters who were gang sexually assualted in Cairo in front of TV cameras were wearing jeans or a red coat ?

Augmerson

Serious question:

Is there any way to send money to the Kurdish forces?

nokia69

Wurzelbert wrote: »

i’d say we discuss that once isis have taken over egypt and are actually going to work on the pre-islamic monuments there...needless to say i cannot give you a number, and this is more of a philosophical question anyway...also interesting to see how little some around here seem to value mankind’s cultural legacy...

the European left place no value on our own cultures so its no real surprise to see that they don't care about pre-islamic monuments

Tugboats

Augmerson wrote: »

Serious question:

Is there any way to send money to the Kurdish forces?

paypal tugboats@gmail.com. minimum donation is 100e

Playboy

nokia69 wrote: »

no BS from me just the facts

its common place for women to suffer from serious sexual harassment on the streets of Egypt and the arab world

its even common in the muslim parts of Europe

so its no surprise to me that ISIS would claim that a woman in a red coat must be a prostitute

oh and BTW I have been to egypt and a few other arab countries

Well if you have been then you would know what you are talking about is BS. Stop trying to change the goalposts... You try to insinuate that Cairo is some sort of fundamentalist city where people cant wear a t-shirt. There are lots of bars in Egypt where the locals and young people drink, you can even get Pork if you look hard enough, there are also brothels, casinos and other such venues. Not the best place admittedly to be gay although there is a big underground scene. The MB were pretty moderate in Egypt even though they had a coalition with some nutter Salafi's. But now under Sisi the country is what is was under Mubarak, a more or less secular state based on some Islamic principles. The MB have been practically wiped out in Egypt by Sisi so its likely to only get more secular if they manage to keep the missionary Wahabbi's out. I think we need to be focusing on why we prop up a regime like Saudi Arabia who exports this extremism all around the middle east and the rest of the world. We know about it and we allow it... why?

Playboy

keanosbeard wrote: »

I was just wondering whether the western female reporter, sorry of course two western female reporters who were gang sexually assualted in Cairo in front of TV cameras were wearing jeans or a red coat ?

Yes because thats exactly what we were discussing. Can you point me to the post where I said that there is no sexual harassment in Egypt?