ISIS are pure evil.

Playboy

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

If Hitler had conquered Ireland during World War 2 it is likely that this country would have become a battleground with the Allies landing on the west coast and pushed through the country to capture Dublin with the Germans fighting them for every yard. Towns and villages would have been reduced to smoking ruins and thousands would have surely been killed.

Are you saying that if that nightmare had come about that it would not have been justified to rid this country of Nazi occupation?

As we trade opinions at this moment real living flesh and blood people in Iraq and Syria are living under a cruel barbaric Islamic State occupation and right now the Iraqi Army are pushing into Tikrit and aim to recapture Mosul from those subhuman barbarian animals. Only a naive idiot would believe there will not be massive bloodshed in the months ahead.

How else will ISIS be stopped except with military force?

Do the maths, a lot more are dead because of our WMD adventure than would have been had Saddam been left in place. ISIS are not going to conquer the middle east. We need to support the regional powers in their fight against ISIS and not launch a full scale western invasion. ISIS are being supplied by whom? Why dont we look at where their support both financial and militarily comes from and attempt to choke that. States can not survive in a vacuum, they will need food and supplies like any other state.

DavidRamsay99

Playboy wrote: »

Do the maths, a lot more are dead because of our WMD adventure than would have been had Saddam been left in place.

Saddam was psychopath who killed hundreds of thousands his own people with poison gas and torture chambers.
Iraq had no chance at a future under Saddam.
Today there is a democratically elected Iraqi government and right now the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi people are fighting to defend that chance at a future from ISIS.
Who killed all those people before the Americans pulled out?
Shia and Sunni terrorists that's who.
Did you somehow miss all those suicide bombs in markets and streets or all those beheaded and torture bodies?

ISIS are not going to conquer the middle east.

If nobody stands up to them they will.

We need to support the regional powers in their fight against ISIS and not launch a full scale western invasion.

If the regional powers fall what other choice would there be?

ISIS are being supplied by whom? Why dont we look at where there support both financial and militarily comes from and attempt to choke that. States can not survive in a vacuum, they will need food and supplies like any other state.

I favor toppling the Saudis and the rest of those terrorist supporting scumbags too.

wretcheddomain

You claim this...

Playboy wrote: »

The US according to people like you is immune to criticism.

The simple fact that you fail to grasp is that the law should be applied consistently to everybody including the World Police of America.

...yet, I clarified thrice (in one post!) that we should be critical of the US:

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Nobody here is suggesting we should ignore the crimes of any country, nor should we accept them - this is true whether we're talking about America, Russia or China - or anywhere else for that matter.

There, you will often find Putin exonerated for every conceivable crime he commits - yet the same bias never extends to the US (for good reason, too).

Yes - let's be critical of the US, but let's not let that criticism overshadow our interpretation of global events.

...I'm suggesting the wholly anti-US brigade is so blinded by the degree to which they despise it, are ultimately missing the point when it comes to world politics and terrorism.

I've tried numerous times to raise this point but, as with a religious zealot, it seems no amount of reason can penetrate your disturbingly biased mind.

Playboy

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Saddam was psychopath who killed hundreds of thousands his own people with poison gas and torture chambers.
Iraq had no chance at a future under Saddam.
Today there is a democratically elected Iraqi government and right now the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi people are fighting to defend that chance at a future from ISIS.
Who killed all those people before the Americans pulled out?
Shia and Sunni terrorists that's who.
Did you somehow miss all those suicide bombs in markets and streets or all those beheaded and torture bodies?



If nobody stands up to them they will.



If the regional powers fall what other choice would there be?



I favor toppling the Saudis and the rest of those terrorist supporting scumbags too.

David with all due respect you have quite a naive view of what has happened, is happening and what would happen should we follow your preferred path of action.

Playboy

wretcheddomain wrote: »

You claim this...



...yet, I clarified thrice (in one post!) that we should be critical of the US:



...I'm suggesting the wholly anti-US brigade is so blinded by the degree to which they despise it, are ultimately missing the point when it comes to world politics and terrorism.

I've tried numerous times to raise this point but, as with a religious zealot, it seems no amount of reason can penetrate your disturbingly biased mind.

Can you please point out all the occasions where I and others have excused Islamists and others for the crimes they have committed? The fact is you pay lip service to the point that the US should be held accountable but you fail to acknowledge and criticize the US for the role they play and have played. The criticism is squarely pointed in one direction because that is obviously where you see the problem lie. You seem to be arguing with some imaginary individuals who think Islamists and Putin are some sort of gift to the world? Who are these people?

wretcheddomain

Playboy wrote: »

Can you please point out all the occasions where I and others have excused Islamists and others for the crimes they have committed? The fact is you pay lip service to the point that the US should be held accountable but you fail to acknowledge and criticize the US for the role they play and have played. The criticism is squarely pointed in one direction because that is obviously where you see the problem lie. You seem to be arguing with some imaginary individuals who think Islamists and Putin are some sort of gift to the world? Who are these people?

Well now you're just putting words into my mouth.

The point I'm making is that as a member of the anti-US brigade, you're the equal of the person who refuses to condemn, or finds excuses, for the behaviour of Putin. Both are equally delusional in my view and, funny enough, the two perspectives often go hand-in-hand for many people. You may exclude yourself from this category of person, but then you would only be the exception to a very common rule.

And yes, the far-left tend to trot out words such as "Islamophobe" with anyone who dares to stand up for freedom of speech and other existing rights. The reason for this, as I'm sure you're aware, is that a narrative prevails whereby the West is responsible for Islamophobia in Western countries as well as destroying countries where Islam happens to be the majority religion.

Zebra3

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Saddam was psychopath who killed hundreds of thousands his own people with poison gas and torture chambers.
Iraq had no chance at a future under Saddam.

Are you aware or do you even care that Saddam was brought to power by the US?

Are you aware or do you care that those crimes he committed against Iraqi people were carried out while the US backed him in his war of aggression against neighbour?

Are you aware or do you care that he also had Iranian civilians gassed during his vicious US backed war against his neighbours and that the US were prepared to block any move against Iraq at the UN for their US backed crimes?

Are you aware or do you care that the US made sure Saddam was executed by a kangaroo court as they would have been deeply embarrassed (if that's actually possible) if he had been put in front of an international court for his crimes against humanity?

Ash.J.Williams

Zebra3 wrote: »

Are you aware or do you even care that Saddam was brought to power by the US?

Are you aware or do you care that those crimes he committed against Iraqi people were carried out while the US backed him in his war of aggression against neighbour?

Are you aware or do you care that he also had Iranian civilians gassed during his vicious US backed war against his neighbours and that the US were prepared to block any move against Iraq at the UN for their US backed crimes?

Are you aware or do you care that the US made sure Saddam was executed by a kangaroo court as they would have been deeply embarrassed (if that's actually possible) if he had been put in front of an international court for his crimes against humanity?

Also suspicious how gadaffi was killed like an animal before he could talk.

DavidRamsay99

Zebra3 wrote: »

Are you aware or do you even care that Saddam was brought to power by the US?

Do that means he should have been left in power? You are unhappy for obvious reasons that Saddam was put in power but at the same time you are unhappy he was overthrown? I don't honestly care who overthrew him. I'm glad he is gone.

Are you aware or do you care that those crimes he committed against Iraqi people were carried out while the US backed him in his war of aggression against neighbour?

Which is why it was right for the US to overthrow him since they created him right? Are you sorry he was punished for his crimes? I'm not.

Are you aware or do you care that he also had Iranian civilians gassed during his vicious US backed war against his neighbours and that the US were prepared to block any move against Iraq at the UN for their US backed crimes?

He can't harm the Iranian people anymore because he's dead.

Are you aware or do you care that the US made sure Saddam was executed by a kangaroo court as they would have been deeply embarrassed (if that's actually possible) if he had been put in front of an international court for his crimes against humanity?

The important thing is that he is dead.

Zebra3

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Also suspicious how gadaffi was killed like an animal before he could talk.

Gadaffi was taken out because he proposed a pan-African currency which would have undermined the scam that is petro-dollar recycling which artificially props up the US and its ability to threathen everybody else with violence.

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Do that means he should have been left in power? You are unhappy for obvious reasons that Saddam was put in power but at the same time you are unhappy he was overthrown? I don't honestly care who overthrew him. I'm glad he is gone.



Which is why it was right for the US to overthrow him since they created him right? Are you sorry he was punished for his crimes? I'm not.



He can't harm the Iranian people anymore because he's dead.



The important thing is that he is dead.

So it's not important that the criminals who supported this mass murderer are exposed?

So it's ok for the US to put evil people in power, use them, and then slaughter vast numbers of people to get rid of them again?

Manic Moran

Wurzelbert wrote: »

not a fan of du penetrators myself...imagine tungsten would be the more eco-friendly option, though probably more expensive...

There are a number of programs looking into developing tungsten alloy penetrators. In theory, as a more dense metal than DU, it should be better, and, indeed, it is the material of choice for munitions manufacturers who do not have access to DU. However, DU has a sort of self-sharpening property, that the penetrator retains its point even as it's being stripped away in the penetration process, this makes it more effective. As a result, nations which can get DU use it in preference.

DavidRamsay99

Zebra3 wrote: »

Gadaffi was taken out because he proposed a pan-African currency which would have undermined the scam that is petro-dollar recycling which artificially props up the US and its ability to threathen everybody else with violence.



So it's not important that the criminals who supported this mass murderer are exposed?

So it's ok for the US to put evil people in power, use them, and then slaughter vast numbers of people to get rid of them again?

We don't live in a perfect world and better that America overthrows dictators for it's own purposes than nobody overthrows dictators.

I don't care why America overthrew Saddam. I am just glad somebody did it.

If a kid was drowning and Gary Glitter rescued her I wouldn't throw the kid back into sea just because she was rescued by a child rapist.

Zebra3

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

We don't live in a perfect world and better that America overthrows dictators for it's own purposes than nobody overthrows dictators.

I don't care why America overthrew Saddam. I am just glad somebody did it.

If a kid was drowning and Gary Glitter rescued her I wouldn't throw the kid back into sea just because she was rescued by a child rapist.

I'm fully aware that we don't live in a perfect world, so that's all the more reason that people who support mass murderers are held accountable for their actions.

And you conveniently ignore that the U.S. brought Saddam to power. They have no right to be constantly interfering in other states' affairs.

nokia69

Zebra3 wrote: »

I'm fully aware that we don't live in a perfect world, so that's all the more reason that people who support mass murderers are held accountable for their actions.

And you conveniently ignore that the U.S. brought Saddam to power. They have no right to be constantly interfering in other states' affairs.

no, saddam took power himself

DavidRamsay99

nokia69 wrote: »

no, saddam took power himself

Saddam stood at the top of the room and as he read out the list of names of conspirators against him and had them dragged out the hall in front of the assembly and shot. Those who remained rose to their feet and screamed their praise of Saddam until by the end of the spectacle the entire room of men who had been planning to overthrow him became his most craven supporters while he sat smugly smoking a cigar.

Zebra3

nokia69 wrote: »

no, saddam took power himself

He came to power through a CIA backed coup.

Anybody with even half a brain is aware of that.

nokia69

Zebra3 wrote: »

He came to power through a CIA backed coup.

Anybody with even half a brain is aware of that.

nope

stop blaming the US/CIA/the west for everything

the americans never really liked saddam, they did help him fight iran but thats about it

obplayer

Zebra3 wrote: »

He came to power through a CIA backed coup.

Anybody with even half a brain is aware of that.

Evidence? Links? Or is it all on a "need to know" basis?

DavidRamsay99

Zebra3 wrote: »

He came to power through a CIA backed coup.

Anybody with even half a brain is aware of that.

Even though that a video has been posted showing that Saddam was more than capable of seizing power himself? :rolleyes:

Roger Hassenforder

Zebra3 wrote: »

He came to power through a CIA backed coup.

Anybody with even half a brain is aware of that.

No he didn't, that's just what people with a lobotomy tell each other.
CIA helped overthrow Quassim, which was before his lot took over, who cozied up to Russia.

Tony EH

Playboy wrote: »

ISIS are not going to conquer the middle east.

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

If nobody stands up to them they will.

There's so much idiocy on this thread, it beggars belief.

ISIS are 30,000 strong, if that, according to most analysts. If they can conquer the Middle East with tiny amount of personnel, then that would qualify them as the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen.

Too many people on here talking absolute shite.

true567

Tony EH wrote: »

There's so much idiocy on this thread, it beggars belief.

ISIS are 30,000 strong, if that, according to most analysts. If they can conquer the Middle East with tiny amount of personnel, then that would qualify them as the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen.

Too many people on here talking absolute shite.

For me personally, again let me stress this -me personally- it is not there presence in the Middle East. They don't have a navy, air force, high tech weapons, nuclear weapons, etc. So I agree they are a **** fighting force in actuality. The Irish Army Ranger Wing could take them out in 5 days I'd say.

However, the scary part is their sleeper cells in Europe and I think thats what we all agree on. Essentially, the only people ISIS kills are those that end up in the territories they control (i.e. photographers or pilots) or domestic spectacular events like in Paris.

For all we know there is a Jihadi John inspired man in Dublin waiting to strike at any moment, or an entire cell planning. And yet people continue to turn the other way in the name of political correctness and attempting to be seen as enlightened or holier than thou.

RedemptionZ

They are too extreme to conquer such a vast area, even if that area traditionally does have fairly ruthless dictators. The more Isis grows, the more common internal conflict will be within the group.

However radicalisation of European Muslims is a serious worry and if people keep their heads in the sand about it the problem will only get worse. And then extreme far right groups will start to pop up in Europe as tensions rise between non Muslims and Muslims. And we all know how well it went last time these kind of parties came into power in the 30's.

LucidLife

nokia69 wrote: »

nope

stop blaming the US/CIA/the west for everything

the americans never really liked saddam, they did help him fight iran but thats about it

I wish we could down vote stupid posts and if someone offends numerous times they get kicked from thread.

LucidLife

obplayer wrote: »

Evidence? Links? Or is it all on a "need to know" basis?

Pretty lazy, just google his rise to power because right now your ignorant. Why should someone go out of their way to link an obviously genuinely uninterested party such as yourself?

Roger Hassenforder

LucidLife wrote: »

Pretty lazy, just google his rise to power because right now your ignorant. Why should someone go out of their way to link an obviously genuinely uninterested party such as yourself?

Do it for the rest of us...

Streetwalker

Tony EH wrote: »

There's so much idiocy on this thread, it beggars belief.

ISIS are 30,000 strong, if that, according to most analysts. If they can conquer the Middle East with tiny amount of personnel, then that would qualify them as the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen.

Too many people on here talking absolute shite.

Power of western media and ISIS propaganda wing. They are nothing but a ragtag grouping of sad bas tards with a few Toyota pick up trucks. As we seen in Kobani when any half decent military unit stands up to them they get defeated. The real question is why the west has allowed them to grow? Look behind the headlines.

nokia69

Streetwalker wrote: »

Power of western media and ISIS propaganda wing. They are nothing but a ragtag grouping of sad bas tards with a few Toyota pick up trucks. As we seen in Kobani when any half decent military unit stands up to them they get defeated. The real question is why the west has allowed them to grow? Look behind the headlines.

they could have 200K fighters and they have captured plenty of weapons from the Iraqi army, its more than just a few Toyota pick up trucks

that said they have no air power

Zebra3

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/revealed-how-the-west-set-saddam-on-the-bloody-road-to-power-1258618.html

Meanwhile, back in la la land, the Americans are sweet angels who never do anything wrong. They should have the freedom to butcher whoever they want, and back whatever dictators they want cos they know best. No need for the proles then to think about issues like human rights and international law.

RomanKnows

Zebra3 wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/revealed-how-the-west-set-saddam-on-the-bloody-road-to-power-1258618.html

Meanwhile, back in la la land, the Americans are sweet angels who never do anything wrong. They should have the freedom to butcher whoever they want, and back whatever dictators they want cos they know best. No need for the proles then to think about issues like human rights and international law.

Dude, that article is 18 years old. You should think about stepping away from boards for a while. The rabid anti-American thing is really starting to grind you down.