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ISIS are pure evil.

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    #662
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    If they want to create a Caliphate, and live according to their extremist religious views, I've no problem with that. And if the extremists in other countries want to go live there, I'm fine with that too. What I'm not in favour of is allowing those same extremists to return and try and ferment uprest in other countries - if their Caliphate is so good, let them live there. The Australian proposal to remove their passports is an excellent idea that the rest of the world could do with considering.


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    #663
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Well done USA, well done UK, well done Kurds, well done International community. I hope every Yazidi gets to safety.
    ISIS will need to look elsewhere for their next victims.
    Hopefully they will start beheading each other.

    Now that will be a video that that should not be 'unseenfootage'..


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    #664
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    hmmm wrote: »
    If they want to create a Caliphate, and live according to their extremist religious views, I've no problem with that. And if the extremists in other countries want to go live there, I'm fine with that too. What I'm not in favour of is allowing those same extremists to return and try and ferment uprest in other countries - if their Caliphate is so good, let them live there. The Australian proposal to remove their passports is an excellent idea that the rest of the world could do with considering.

    Almost all who join up with ISIS have no intention of ever returning home.

    The problem is actually in their home countries who refuse to let those who are attempting to go leave.

    America admitted that IS are just a regional player with absolutely no interest in blowing things up in the west. Al Qaida is the group who has an agenda to kill 'infidels' in the west. IS are completely different from Al Qaeda, for the most part they do not get along.

    That is why the West is playing a dangerous game by interfering, for whatever reason. IS is way more dangerous than Al Qaeda and if they are provoked they will unfortunately launch a terror campaign in the countries who initiated hostilities. I pray that it never ever comes to that.


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    #665
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    That was part of a wider narrative and the mexican mafia was added just for good measure.

    He came here talking about flags and then straight onto defending Israel.

    And by defending Israel you of course mean pointing out Hamas' goals.

    Or perhaps you would like to point out what the "defence" was, in your eyes?

    Being aware of the basic goals of one of the major belligerents should be a fundamental piece of knowledge to anyone who wants to have an opinion on the matter. If you see such basic knowledge as such an attack on your position it has far more to do with the weakness of your position than it does with any "defence" of Israel by me. There was no defence. Recognizing Hamas' stated intentions does not even begin to be one.

    And no, no one was talking about the Palestinian flag, which everyone is very familiar with, please try and read posts properly before posting then maybe you will be able to actually make a salient post once in a while. (I'm alluding to your first post that referenced mine)


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    #666
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Almost all who join up with ISIS have no intention of ever returning home.

    The problem is actually in their home countries who refuse to let those who are attempting to go leave.

    America admitted that IS are just a regional player with absolutely no interest in blowing things up in the west. Al Qaida is the group who has an agenda to kill 'infidels' in the west. IS are completely different from Al Qaeda, for the most part they do not get along.

    That is why the West is playing a dangerous game by interfering, for whatever reason. IS is way more dangerous than Al Qaeda and if they are provoked they will unfortunately launch a terror campaign in the countries who initiated hostilities. I pray that it never ever comes to that.

    Em... They are completely different from al Qaeda? Perhaps you should check what they were called before their first name change to ISIS. Its kind of a give away.


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    #667
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    LorMal wrote: »
    i'm sorry but that post is completely wrong on every point.

    Actually every point is right. Just stop watching Murdoch controlled news and you'll see that.


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    #668
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Waffle.
    Allegation wholly unproven and unsubstantiated.
    Fact: Assad is Genocidal. ISIS is not.

    Actually they have stated their aims pretty clearly with regard to mass murder. You might think they are playing around, the vast majority of people and thankfully the international community is taking it a little more seriously.

    Even if they have not yet succeeded in slaughtering to the level of an Assad why would anyone wait for them to finish to act on their clearly stated aims? That's kind of why its an intervention an not some act of revenge.


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    #669
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    SamHarris wrote: »
    Em... They are completely different from al Qaeda? Perhaps you should check what they were called before their first name change to ISIS. Its kind of a give away.

    Yes, I know that were called AQ in Iraq in 2004/5 but after that they change their methodology and are at odds with al qaeda due to disagreements in Syria. They now fight each other.

    America have stated that AQ are only a regional player rather than international terror group like Al Qaeda.


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    #670
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Fair enough. There were a few strikes.

    They weren't on the north of the mountain.
    There was no siege. IS positions were defense. Their interest at the time was just to secure the town and keep out the peshmerga who had fled. There was absolutely no intention of a genocide. That just just a whole lot of palava.

    Your position is that Isis stated these people must convert and die then followed them into the desert to set up "defence positions" around the unarmed civilians, failing to surround only because of the actions of enemy troops and airforces, and their aim was never to attack them (except when thery did)? Solid. Let me guess, the official story of 9 11 is completely bogus, right?

    And when they say these things its "palava" because they are just joking around or because its hard to fit into your political narrative if their serious?


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    #671
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Yes, I know that were called AQ in Iraq in 2004/5 but after that they change their methodology and are at odds with al qaeda due to disagreements in Syria. They now fight each other.

    America have stated that AQ are only a regional player rather than international terror group like Al Qaeda.

    Uh hu.

    that's a reference to their current capabilities, not their wider intent. Very different things.


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    #672
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Almost all who join up with ISIS have no intention of ever returning home.

    How do you know this?
    unseenfootage wrote: »
    The whole think is a polava based on the reports we are getting in western media.

    Whole bloody polava! That's all it was.

    40,000 peaceful, innocent people are forced from their homes and flee in a state of abject terror. Men, women, infants, babies, the sick, the elderly huddle together on a barren mountain side. They suffer dehydration, they suffer malnourishment. They lack sufficient medical care. Their wounds get infected. Many die on the attempt to get there. Many die there.

    But it's all just a load of polava, eh? Just merry high-jinks! Those fun loving ISIS fellows just chased them up a mountain and surrounded it for larks! They never meant to harm a soul!


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    #673
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    SamHarris wrote: »
    Uh hu.

    that's a reference to their current capabilities, not their wider intent. Very different things.

    They are regarded as the wealthiest terror group in the world with hundreds of millions in their coffers, expertise, manpower and military resources.

    There capabilities are way beyond that of Al Qaeda and they have devoted followers all over Europe, in America and the rest of the world. These are supporters who have a pledge of allegiance to the "Caliphate"

    For them to bomb any major city is a walk in the park. As things stand , according to political analysts and the US government, they have no intent to bomb outside of the region. Their playground is just the middle East.

    With all due respect, I don't think that you know much about them. You still think that they and Al Qaeda are the same, which is not the case at all. Everybody knows this.


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    #674
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    How do you know this?



    40,000 peaceful, innocent people are forced from their homes and flee in a state of abject terror. Men, women, infants, babies, the sick, the elderly huddle together on a barren mountain side. They suffer dehydration, they suffer malnourishment. They lack sufficient medical care. Their wounds get infected. Many die on the attempt to get there. Many die there.

    But it's all just a load of polava, eh? Just merry high-jinks! Those fun loving ISIS fellows just chased them up a mountain and surrounded it for larks! They never meant to harm a soul!

    You've been feebly attempting to belittle the suffering of human beings since you sauntered into this thread. It's disgusting. Take a look at yourself.

    You misrepresenting me. I'm saying that the response by the West to this issue is a polava and the alleged threat of genocide and massacres is a polava. The suffering of these people is terrible especially of the women and children.


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    #675
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    How do you know this?.

    There are several news reports on the MSM of IS soldiers burning their passports or revealing their identity in videos or photographs. In fact there was a recent order that they should not cover their faces in public places.

    By them pledging allegiance to ISIS they are making a solid commitment and this sets them apart from other jihadis.

    I certainly hope that they don't return home.


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    #676
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Waffle.
    Allegation wholly unproven and unsubstantiated.
    Fact: Assad is Genocidal. ISIS is not.

    ISIS has genocidal intentions for the entire Middle East.

    Many commentators argue they have already committed genocide in Iraq by killing thousands for being who they are, forcing hundreds of thousands from their homes for the crime of not being Sunni Muslim and systematically destroying the cultural heritage of minority groups.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/isis-persecution-iraqi-christians-genocide-asylum

    Who needs to call it genocide before you will recognize it as genocide?

    If ISIS have not yet committed genocide, it's not because they do not harbour genocidal ambitions. It's because they have been prevented from doing so by the efforts of their enemies in Iraq and Syria.


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    #677
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    You've been feebly attempting to belittle the suffering of human beings since you sauntered into this thread. It's disgusting. Take a look at yourself.

    What you say about Assad is far more disgusting.

    I hope you have a shiny mirror.


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    #678
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    ISIS has genocidal intentions for the entire Middle East.

    Many commentators argue they have already committed genocide in Iraq by killing thousands for being who they are, forcing hundreds of thousands from their homes for the crime of not being Sunni Muslim and systematically destroying the cultural heritage of minority groups.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/08/isis-persecution-iraqi-christians-genocide-asylum

    Who needs to call it genocide before you will recognize it as genocide?

    If ISIS have not yet committed genocide, it's not because they do not harbour genocidal ambitions. It's because they have been prevented from doing so by the efforts of their enemies in Iraq and Syria.

    More waffle.

    Give me solid facts. Not conjecture or fears. Solid facts please.


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    #679
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    You misrepresenting me. I'm saying that the response by the West to this issue is a polava and the alleged threat of genocide and massacres is a polava. The suffering of these people is terrible especially of the women and children.

    No, you were referring to the Mount Sinjar situation. Belittling it. Trivializing it as if it were a school tour that got lost. A "polava".

    Massacres have already occured.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2014/07/29/isis-executes-hundreds-in-tikrit/

    http://time.com/2878718/isis-claims-massacre-of-1700-iraqis/

    http://nypost.com/2014/08/11/kids-massacred-women-enslaved-as-isis-raids-iraqi-enclave/

    The threat of genocide is very real.


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    #680
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    No, you were referring to the Mount Sinjar situation. Belittling it. Trivializing it as if it were a school tour that got lost. A "polava".

    Massacres have already occured.

    http://news.antiwar.com/2014/07/29/isis-executes-hundreds-in-tikrit/

    http://time.com/2878718/isis-claims-massacre-of-1700-iraqis/

    http://nypost.com/2014/08/11/kids-massacred-women-enslaved-as-isis-raids-iraqi-enclave/

    The threat of genocide is very real.

    Okay then quote me where I trivialized the suffering of the people on Sinjar.


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    #681
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    What you say about Assad is far more disgusting.

    I hope you have a shiny mirror.

    I said ISIS is more genocidal than Assad. Arguable.

    I said the Middle East would be a safer, more stable place with Assad in Damascus than it would with ISIS in Damascus. Inarguable.

    Neither sentiment is disgusting.


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    #682
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    More waffle.

    Give me solid facts. Not conjecture or fears. Solid facts please.

    Rubbish. You're making no attempts to answer my questions or counter my arguments.


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    #683
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    See?

    You call the Sinjar mountain situation a "polava".

    You must be tired at this late hour.

    Clearly I was referring to all the allegations and not of the suffering of the people.


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    #684
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Reads very much to me like you're referring to the situation when you outline the situation as you see it and then write; "the whole think is a polava based on reports by western media"

    I think I can be forgiven for assuming that the "whole think" you refer to is the situation.
    But there was no plan to genocide the Yazidis. The facts speak for themselves.

    - They were exiled.
    - There was no siege.
    - Most of them escaped, many of them to Syria and were then subsequently escorted back to Iraq by the Kurds.

    So once again. The whole think is a polava based on the reports we are getting in western media

    It was in reference to that bold & underlined part, which was how I started the point.

    Maybe I should have wrote clearer. My bad.


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    #685
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,747 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Maybe I should have wrote clearer. My bad.

    Ok, I feel you.

    My bad, actually.


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    #686
    Glock Lesnar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 310 ✭✭Glock Lesnar


    http://i.imgur.com/misfLx8.png

    I urge you to retweet


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    #687
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    Glock Lesnar wrote: »
    http://i.imgur.com/misfLx8.png

    I urge you to retweet

    ...but

    This is not twitter.

    You can only retweeet a tweet.


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    #688
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Rubbish. You're making no attempts to answer my questions or counter my arguments.

    You've lost the argument & are clutching at straws now mate. Just bow out with dignity.


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    #689
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    Almost all who join up with ISIS have no intention of ever returning home.
    I appreciate that - I've seen them burning passports. I think that is partly the reason why Obama is playing such a non-interventionist game (very limited airstrikes etc.), he recognises that the Caliphate in the Middle East Sunni homelands is the aim of ISIS, and the sort of global jihad as proposed by AQ is not on the agenda. If the Sunni triangle in Iraq/Syria attracts the more extreme elements who want to create a "perfect" state, then why not leave them off? Some of the more fanciful statements about extending the Caliphate to the limits of original Muslim expansion (e.g. Spain/Bulgaria) are scare stories.
    IS are completely different from Al Qaeda, for the most part they do not get along.
    The purported reason for AQ existence is because the West were interfering in Muslim lands, stationing troops in Saudi etc. IS may not be proposing direct attacks on the West just yet, but what happens when the energy supplies for the West are threatened e.g. IS attack on Saudi.

    To go off on a tangent - I'm all for wind/solar energy because it reduces our dependence on middle east oil. If Sunnis want to live in some 12th century existence, that's their choice - I'm quite happy to leave them alone if they leave me alone.
    That is why the West is playing a dangerous game by interfering, for whatever reason. IS is way more dangerous than Al Qaeda and if they are provoked they will unfortunately launch a terror campaign in the countries who initiated hostilities. I pray that it never ever comes to that.
    I agree unfortunately.


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    #690
    unseenfootage
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭unseenfootage


    hmmm wrote: »
    I appreciate that - I've seen them burning passports. I think that is partly the reason why Obama is playing such a non-interventionist game (very limited airstrikes etc.), he recognises that the Caliphate in the Middle East Sunni homelands is the aim of ISIS, and the sort of global jihad as proposed by AQ is not on the agenda. If the Sunni triangle in Iraq/Syria attracts the more extreme elements who want to create a "perfect" state, then why not leave them off? Some of the more fanciful statements about extending the Caliphate to the limits of original Muslim expansion (e.g. Spain/Bulgaria) are scare stories.


    The purported reason for AQ existence is because the West were interfering in Muslim lands, stationing troops in Saudi etc. IS may not be proposing direct attacks on the West just yet, but what happens when the energy supplies for the West are threatened e.g. IS attack on Saudi.

    To go off on a tangent - I'm all for wind/solar energy because it reduces our dependence on middle east oil. If Sunnis want to live in some 12th century existence, that's their choice - I'm quite happy to leave them alone if they leave me alone.


    I agree unfortunately.

    Nice post.

    The supplies needn't be threatened. Since, ISIS purportedly sells oil to Assad and supplies it with electricity as well as supplying Turkey with cheap oil, it would not have any problems supplying Europe or even USA with it's energy needs. China is also a ready buyer, although sanctions might get in the way. US dependency on Saudi oil is diminishing with its success in fracking and an increase in supply from Canada. It is forecasted that in a few years America will be a nett exporter of oil.

    I see the threat to Israel as a bigger problem. Jordan is also at risk due to its meddling. If ISIS even steps a foot in Jordan then Israel will attack.


    We are certainly living in interesting times.

    Good point re: alternative energy. That is definitively workable. One of the north European countries is already at a stage where they can produce wind energy cheaper than energy from solid fuels. Way to go!


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    #691
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    unseenfootage wrote: »
    I see the threat to Israel as a bigger problem. Jordan is also at risk due to its meddling. If ISIS even steps a foot in Jordan then Israel will attack.
    Jordan is an interesting one and certainly a potential flashpoint that could drag in Israel and a heavy US response. An ISIS column has already been mysteriously destroyed just outside the border of Jordan in June - purportedly by Jordanian planes, but presumably with heavy intelligence assistance from the US or Israel.

    ISIS seem to have pretty good strategic thinkers - I think Jordan isn't worth the trouble and effort considering their guardians, but Saudi is something else. The holy sites are worth fighting for, and a few sleeper cells in Saudi and some sort of uprising would be possible - but any interruption to oil supplies would put the entire world in a difficult position. The US may be approaching self sufficiency, but oil is fungible, and a disruption to Saudi supplies would push up the price worldwide.


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