ISIS are pure evil.

mad muffin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The thing is Islam guarantees the rights of religious minorities to practice in peace.

Islam? Maybe. Those Muslims? Not a chance.

old_aussie

Adamantium wrote: »

Didn't a man in Saudi die yesterday from ebola on the side of the road?

More likely MERS

mad muffin

Tail Docker wrote: »

Well, that's one way to ensure there's another war. We've had "Saddam eats babies". We've had "Gaddafi eats babies and rapes their mommies", now we have "ISIS kills Babies for being Christian! Go gettem!". This is the path to war. Some benefit from ensuring we "go gettem!". Sadly, they will prevail and there will indeed be a war. "Muslims are bad kids, mkay?" You heard it here first. Ish.

Those Muslims are bad. Very, very bad…

mad muffin

bboybaboy19 wrote: »

What? Gaza is mentioned in the OP so how is it off thread drift? Tip on with your back seat modding there like a good boy.

While the world focuses on Gaza...

That's all the excuse some need to go on a rant...

Renegade Mechanic

mad muffin wrote: »

Islam? Maybe. Those Muslims? Not a chance.

Isis are offering a tax to Christians, etc and making it too high for them to afford so off with their heads. However both Sunni and Shiite Muslims have been ordered to leave their towns. Those people definitely only want others with their bloodlust around.

mad muffin

Tail Docker wrote: »

War? Which benefits who? Notice the Isis boys in their mile long convoys of 14 reg Toyota Hiluxes? Who paid for them? There's money behind them, so there money on a war. And in a war. BTW, I'm converting to Islam, just saying like. The beard is coming along nicely, the missus is ok with a burka and I'm learning the old "Allah akbar" phrases. Ye are on yer own..

I'm sure you are. I'm sure you are...

old_aussie

This is what islam has been bringing for 1400 years.

In 732 AD the Muslim Army which was moving on Paris was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell.

In 1571 AD the Muslim Army/ Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lapanto.

In 1683 AD the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies

Maybe the world should reconsider islam and what it brings.

mad muffin

take everything wrote: »

What baffles me is why the average decent people of Muslim faith aren't denouncing these savages from the hilltops. Why aren't they actively reclaiming their religion from these savages.

In the UK there is actually a significant number that are supporting them. Putting up their flag. Joining them. Trying to take over schools subversively.

Google and you shall find.

FTA69

old_aussie wrote: »

This is what islam has been bringing for 1400 years.

In 732 AD the Muslim Army which was moving on Paris was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell.

In 1571 AD the Muslim Army/ Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lapanto.

In 1683 AD the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies

Maybe the world should reconsider islam and what it brings.

As opposed to Christianity is it?

Renegade Mechanic

old_aussie wrote: »

This is what islam has been bringing for 1400 years.

In 732 AD the Muslim Army which was moving on Paris was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell.

In 1571 AD the Muslim Army/ Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lapanto.

In 1683 AD the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies

Maybe the world should reconsider islam and what it brings.

Well.. True. But Christianitys slate in those eras is as dirty.

Edit: Nvm

sReq | uTeK

Whoever drew up religion is some troll

mad muffin

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Whoever drew up religion is some troll

Religion is the reason I'm an atheist.

Richard Hillman

It is going to be very hard to defeat these folks. If the world wakes up and goes into Iraq for battle, they will just crawl back into their rat holes and blend in with the public again. Although I suppose that is better than a crusade across the middle east.

Infini

Aaaand its **** like this that makes me wonder if the nuclear option would be the Better option for purging these animals from the global gene pool. Seriously the sheer brutality and savagery of these animals would make one wonder if nuking them all would be the better option even with innocents caught up in it (better a quick instant death than the horrors these scum would inflict on them sadly).

Regardless once america got involved with this they should never have left expecially with the situation now unfolding. Not that the iraqi government is helping either something has to give there too. Hopefully something will happen so the innocents are saved from these scum.

Tail Docker

mad muffin wrote: »

Crusade? Is it a crusade? I'm guessing you're calling for a crusade?

Totally the opposite actually. I believe that "a crusade" as you put it might be right up some peoples alley, i.e they're pushing and fomenting for one, stirring up trouble in a deadly long game that started way back with the first invasion of Iraq. I'm anti-war as it happens. Wars only benefit certain ruthless people who profit from them.

mad muffin

Tail Docker wrote: »

Totally the opposite actually. I believe that "a crusade" as you put it might be right up some peoples alley, i.e they're pushing and fomenting for one, stirring up trouble in a deadly long game that started way back with the first invasion of Iraq. I'm anti-war as it happens. Wars only benefit certain ruthless people who profit from them.

I don't know… war has given us many technologies and medical advancements, that we take for granted today.

I think it's time for another technological leap.

Wibbs

Send in the UN? I dunno. It would be a start, but would the commanders have the stomach to actually take these guys on in a manner that would render them impotent? I doubt it. Unless you could send someone like the Russians in, they don't give a fcuk about the handwringers.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Mohammed didn't kill people for practising a different religions, he offered them protection in exchange for imposing a jizya tax on able bodied men.

Well that's debatable. He certainly started wars and in one instance oversaw the beheading of 6-900 men(if they had pubes they were labeled as "men") and enslaved the women and kids left over. He left quite the list of dead behind him.

FTA69 wrote: »

As opposed to Christianity is it?

Indeed, however in the case of most other religions including Christianity you have to hide and/or pervert the original message to get to the point of war and wholesale slaughter. Jesus himself never took up arms nor supported their use. Buddha most certainly didn't, yet wars have kicked off under both banners. With Islam you had a martial religion from the very get go. It IS an outlier. Plus it has about the strongest built in self protection against change. It's one of the basic tenets of the faith that change is to be avoided. Other religions have evolved and moved with the times and have had reformations large and small, Islam at its core and by design is still mired in early medieval thinking with no reformation possible.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

It is definitely on its way but youll never see us acting like those animals. We lead completely different lifestyles and ideals. The average "westerner" is not capable of decapitating a child so I wouldn't go scare mongering just yet.

Oh how I wish that were true. The skin of civilisation is wafer thin. Go back to 1920 and pick a world nation and culture that within a few years would happily commit one of the biggest stains on humanity's history and you'd be unlikely to pick Germany. Germany has one of the deepest and broadest civilisations in Europe. A towering culture that gave and still gives a huge amount to world civilisation, yet within one generation it went completely and utterly insane. It takes surprisingly little for humans to become "devils". Put it another way if this online community were in 1930's Germany some of you reading would be actively true blue Nazis most would be passive Nazis or be happy to turn a blind eye to their excesses and the few anti Nazis that came along would be banned as trolls.

The Backwards Man

take everything wrote: »

What baffles me is why the average decent people of Muslim faith aren't denouncing these savages from the hilltops. Why aren't they actively reclaiming their religion from these savages.

They are too busy fighting them or fleeing from them. Everybody hates these cnuts.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

BurnsCarpenter

Tail Docker wrote: »

Totally the opposite actually. I believe that "a crusade" as you put it might be right up some peoples alley, i.e they're pushing and fomenting for one, stirring up trouble in a deadly long game that started way back with the first invasion of Iraq. I'm anti-war as it happens. Wars only benefit certain ruthless people who profit from them.

It's not always so black and white though. I generally believe the west should avoid intervening anywhere unless absolutely necessary. The main justifiable situation being to prevent genocide.

Who are these forces in the background that are supposedly manipulating things? ISIS are releasing their own propaganda videos and they are quite proud of the extreme violence.

FTA69

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed, however in the case of most other religions including Christianity you have to hide and/or pervert the original message to get to the point of war and wholesale slaughter. Jesus himself never took up arms nor supported their use. Buddha most certainly didn't, yet wars have kicked off under both banners. With Islam you had a martial religion from the very get go. It IS an outlier. Plus it has about the strongest built in self protection against change. It's one of the basic tenets of the faith that change is to be avoided. Other religions have evolved and moved with the times and have had reformations large and small, Islam at its core and by design is still mired in early medieval thinking with no reformation possible.

Muhammad and his followers were attacked from the outset by the Al Quraysh tribe and he found himself navigating a very volatile landscape of angry and hostile Arab and Jewish nomadic tribes. The militarisation of early Muslims was something forced on them, fight or die basically. It's actually very impressive how he and his band of Muslims managed to come out on top considering the forces who were against him. Of course the Muslims today would say this is because of divine intervention; the reality of course is because of the fact that Muhammad was a ruthless and astute commander and leader and general all-round badass. Still, despite how it looks now, Islam at the time was actually a very liberating force and was infinitely more progressive than what preceded it. For people to be talking about anti-racism and the notion of divorce and property rights for women in 600AD was a fairly big deal.

As we know, Islam later became a major element in learning and human development which made advances in everything from astronomy to mathematics to medicine. They also generally had a much more tolerant view of other faiths than their Christian counterparts until very recently.

However, the thing that winds me up about Islam today is the tendency amongst many of them to take the Qu'ran as the literal on how we should live our lives. Most Christians who believe every word of the Bible are written off as loopers for a good reason. The book is 1400 years old in fairness, and while there's some good moral stuff in it there's also a lot of crazy sh*te. The Surah entitled "The Women" is one clear example of this.

That having been said Wibbs, Islam isn't a monolith and not everyone takes a fundamentalist view of it in that sense. There are plenty of modernist Muslims around for whom Islam is a positive influence. Islamic charitable donations for instance, are about 15 times the amount of global humanitarian aid. Similarly, most Muslims are open and tolerant people on most topics in my experience. They're no more zealous loopers than the average Mass-going Catholic you'd find in rural Ireland.

While I think it's time humanity moved on from religion, I don't view Islam or its adherents as some sort of threat to civilisation as we know it. And I say that as someone whose working life is spent pretty much exclusively in a Muslim context.

gw80

Infini2 wrote: »

Aaaand its **** like this that makes me wonder if the nuclear option would be the Better option for purging these animals from the global gene pool. Seriously the sheer brutality and savagery of these animals would make one wonder if nuking them all would be the better option even with innocents caught up in it (better a quick instant death than the horrors these scum would inflict on them sadly).

Regardless once america got involved with this they should never have left expecially with the situation now unfolding. Not that the iraqi government is helping either something has to give there too. Hopefully something will happen so the innocents are saved from these scum.

Have to agree with you there, Give them a bit more time to get more of their followers together and just nuke em, nuke em good,

maybe let the un get together and agree to the ultimate solution so that no one country takes the responsibility,

No one could possibly defend these animals,and let it be a warning to any other ****tard religion who try to impose their fairytales on other people

Wibbs

FTA69 wrote: »

Muhammad and his followers were attacked from the outset by the Al Quraysh tribe and he found himself navigating a very volatile landscape of angry and hostile Arab and Jewish nomadic tribes. The militarisation of early Muslims was something forced on them, fight or die basically.

According to their history(which has no backup anywhere else) and as we know the winners write the history.

Still, despite how it looks now, Islam at the time was actually a very liberating force and was infinitely more progressive than what preceded it. For people to be talking about anti-racism and the notion of divorce and property rights for women in 600AD was a fairly big deal.

Again internal propaganda. None of those ideas were even close to radical. Pre Islamic Arabia was quite the pluralist culture.

As we know, Islam later became a major element in learning and human development which made advances in everything from astronomy to mathematics to medicine.

They did indeed, they had access to both ancient Greek writings and Indian and really ran with it.

However, the thing that winds me up about Islam today is the tendency amongst many of them to take the Qu'ran as the literal on how we should live our lives. Most Christians who believe every word of the Bible are written off as loopers for a good reason. The book is 1400 years old in fairness, and while there's some good moral stuff in it there's also a lot of crazy sh*te. The Surah entitled "The Women" is one clear example of this.

Therein lays the problem though. You cannot compare the Quran with the Christian texts(or Jewish for that matter). People regularly make this mistake. The texts come from a very different mindset. The self protectionist nature of Islam requires followers to see the Quran as written directly by god and literal and immutable. The other faiths texts are seen as influenced by god, so there is far more wriggle room for evolution of philosophy and theology. Indeed as you say gospel literalists are seen as loopers even by theologians and have been since very early on. By the time of Augustine of Hippo texts like genesis were seen as fable like narratives with theological truth within them. I find it ironic that today you have literalists in the US who have pre early medieval thinking going on.

That having been said Wibbs, Islam isn't a monolith and not everyone takes a fundamentalist view of it in that sense. There are plenty of modernist Muslims around for whom Islam is a positive influence. Islamic charitable donations for instance, are about 15 times the amount of global humanitarian aid. Similarly, most Muslims are open and tolerant people on most topics in my experience. They're no more zealous loopers than the average Mass-going Catholic you'd find in rural Ireland.

Oh I agree 100%. The average Muslim is like the average anyone really.

While I think it's time humanity moved on from religion, I don't view Islam or its adherents as some sort of threat to civilisation as we know it. And I say that as someone whose working life is spent pretty much exclusively in a Muslim context.

I would say its potential as athreat is low enough. In any event the west pretty much egged on the fundamentalist Muslims through long standing political interference. 50 years ago the Muslim world in the middle east was very different and fundamentalists were rare. People forget that at one stage Iraq was communist and Iran, Lebanon and Afghanistan were very liberal and western in outlook and practice. More easy going and laid back in many ways.

FTA69

According to their history(which has no backup anywhere else) and as we know the winners write the history.

It's generally accepted as historical fact that Muhammad came under attack from other forces in Arabia. The flight to Medina is also accepted historical fact as were numerous attempts on Muhammad's life. I don't see how you would have trouble accepting that a religious upstart challenging the political powers at the time would come under attack; pretty much the exact same thing happened to Jesus 600 years before.

50 years ago the Muslim world in the middle east was very different and fundamentalists were rare. People forget that at one stage Iraq was communist and Iran, Lebanon and Afghanistan were very liberal and western in outlook and practice. More easy going and laid back in many ways.

This is true. I remember watching a video about Palestine in the 1960s and there were women in Gaza in bikinison the beach. When I was there the vast majority of women had hijabs on and only a small minority were in western dress; most of them were socialist-orientated feminists too who were associated with minority groups like the PFLP. There has been a pronounced "Islamist" trend that has emerged in the Muslim world and it's far from positive in my eyes.

Duck's hoop

What they're doing is utterly abhorrent. But to suggest that it is somehow beyond us to do similar because we 'are westerners' is fcuking crazy.

There is a very real danger this is being used as anti-islam propaganda, further fomenting islamophobia.

It's mind bogglingly cruel, heartless and they are deserving of death in turn. But we as westerners, lest we forget, have committed similar awful acts in the past in war time. It is not simply the preserve of Muslim extremists.

And while people are dragging the Gaza thing in there, hundreds of babies and women have been eviscerated and decapitated in the past few weeks.

Autonomous Cowherd

Wibbs wrote: »

Therein lays the problem though. You cannot compare the Quran with the Christian texts(or Jewish for that matter). People regularly make this mistake. The texts come from a very different mindset. The self protectionist nature of Islam requires followers to see the Quran as written directly by god and literal and immutable. The other faiths texts are seen as influenced by god, so there is far more wriggle room for evolution of philosophy and theology..

Sufism is derived from Islam, albeit an esoteric form that considers itself a perennial philosophy, like esoteric Vedanta etc, or esoteric Christianity for that matter. So, I would suggest (and may be wrong) that Islam is not quite the monolith it seems. Sufism is a particularly beautiful philosophy.

Jack Sawyer

Call me intolerant but as each day passes I increasingly have a harder time indulging peoples idiotic, varied and endlessly ridiculous religious beliefs.....

CptMackey

It's great to see this religion of peace at it again. Where are all the protests from those who took to the streets over some cartoons and where are the left now?

All because people follow some made up man in the sky.

If it wouldn't kill more innocent people a nuke would be the job for these animals

EazyD

Jack Sawyer wrote: »

Call me intolerant but as each day passes I increasingly have a harder time indulging peoples idiotic, varied and endlessly ridiculous religious beliefs.....

Religion at it's core was merely a social control mechanism, nothing more. While one could argue this has changed over time, it can't be denied that it has been used as a front for backwards agenda's the world over.

Iwasfrozen

Tail Docker wrote: »

War? Which benefits who? Notice the Isis boys in their mile long convoys of 14 reg Toyota Hiluxes? Who paid for them? There's money behind them, so there money on a war. And in a war. BTW, I'm converting to Islam, just saying like. The beard is coming along nicely, the missus is ok with a burka and I'm learning the old "Allah akbar" phrases. Ye are on yer own..

Yer not learning it too well. It's Allahu akbar.