ISIS are pure evil.

LorMal

Egginacup wrote: »

What's with the "anti-American" label anyway? Does that mean that you are "pro-American"? And what does "pro-American" mean exactly?

If someone comes out and expresses outrage at a clear case of malfeasance on the part of the US government or military (and mark my words they are too numerous to count) all we seem to hear from those who want to sweep it under the rug is "anti-American!!!! go live in Cuba!" or some blather. There's never a case of "you know, the guy's right, that action or decision was definitely suspect or criminal". No it's just.. scream the "anti-American" card without using a braincell. Same thing with Israel. Express opposition or outrage at Israel discrimination against Arabs and instead of people saying "actually, yeah it IS a disgrace that ethnic Arab citizens of Israel are not allowed the same rights as Jews" you just get an echo of "ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!!" .... again without a shred of thought or intelligent discourse.

It'll never change. People just can't think for themselves. They have no balls to stand alone in the face of ridicule and question things. They have no ability to follow their conscience for fear of being vilified. So they go along with the mob. Easier that way.
You don't have to be alone to face uncomfortable truths when you can run with the crowd and echo each others hollow platitudes and slag off anyone who disagrees. No need to contemplate other points of view. No need to even contemplate facts. Just run with the narrative that guides the path of least resistance and pour scorn on anyone who might wish to spend a bit longer than 10 seconds having their minds made up for them by someone else.

Some old narcissism. Do you ever stop to thinK that the rest of us might actually be capable of independent thought? And that we still might not agree with you?

Egginacup

Another day for the lunatics that the US created:

http://www.china.org.cn/world/2014-09/02/content_33403687.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/world/middleeast/isis-militants-behead-lebanese-soldier-and-hold-more.html?_r=1

(will we hear the same outrage over the beheading of a Lebanese soldier as we heard over Foley?)

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140902/192547966/Syrian-Militants-Present-List-of-Demands-for-Release-of-Fijian.html

http://www.arabnews.com/news/623581


Yep......the words "pissup" and "brewery" spring to mind when thinking of America's leadership, political skill and diplomatic acumen.

humanji

MOD: Please don't link or offer links to videos of people being executed.

opinionated3

Egginacup wrote: »

What's with the "anti-American" label anyway? Does that mean that you are "pro-American"? And what does "pro-American" mean exactly?

If someone comes out and expresses outrage at a clear case of malfeasance on the part of the US government or military (and mark my words they are too numerous to count) all we seem to hear from those who want to sweep it under the rug is "anti-American!!!! go live in Cuba!" or some blather. There's never a case of "you know, the guy's right, that action or decision was definitely suspect or criminal". No it's just.. scream the "anti-American" card without using a braincell. Same thing with Israel. Express opposition or outrage at Israel discrimination against Arabs and instead of people saying "actually, yeah it IS a disgrace that ethnic Arab citizens of Israel are not allowed the same rights as Jews" you just get an echo of "ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!!" .... again without a shred of thought or intelligent discourse.

It'll never change. People just can't think for themselves. They have no balls to stand alone in the face of ridicule and question things. They have no ability to follow their conscience for fear of being vilified. So they go along with the mob. Easier that way.
You don't have to be alone to face uncomfortable truths when you can run with the crowd and echo each others hollow platitudes and slag off anyone who disagrees. No need to contemplate other points of view. No need to even contemplate facts. Just run with the narrative that guides the path of least resistance and pour scorn on anyone who might wish to spend a bit longer than 10 seconds having their minds made up for them by someone else.

Well able to think for myself pal. What's with the long winded passage? Do you think your more intelligent than those of us who see IS for what they really are? Sometimes, you know, things really are just Black and white. IS are simply evil savages. The international community should be coming together, putting boots on the ground and destroying them. No need to over complicate it. Keep it simple. Kill em all. Eradicate the problem and move on. Morals don't come into it because IS don't have them in the first place. If they want their 72 virgins I'm sure the combined will of the international community could easily arrange it. Just needs a leader with a real set of balls to organise it. Unfortunately it seems obama ain't that leader. ...

The Friendly Newcomer

Haven't seen any of the links but if what they are doing is true then they are pure evil. They must be stopped!

wretcheddomain

The Friendly Newcomer wrote: »

Haven't seen any of the links but if what they are doing is true then they are pure evil. They must be stopped!

The thing is that both sides have a point in this debate.

It's true that US foreign policy has led to catastrophe after catastrophe in Middle Eastern politics, feigned as it is for the greater good.

But it's also true that the Islamic State, irrespective of their cause, have cut loose and savagely grown over the past few months, attempting to break down existing nation states through genocidal terrorism tactics.

What should actually happen is that the neighbouring countries of Iraq and Syria (Turkey, Iran etc.) should intervene to stop them, as I don't think IS will stop if they happen to capture and establish the state they desire. The whole purpose of the Caliphate, after all, is expansion.

Philip7304

Just asking a question..Why haven't we seen worldwide protests/marches etc condemning the actions of this Islamic group from Muslims...

Rightwing

Philip7304 wrote: »

Just asking a question..Why haven't we seen worldwide protests/marches etc condemning the actions of this Islamic group from Muslims...

Probably afraid to.

humanji

Philip7304 wrote: »

Just asking a question..Why haven't we seen worldwide protests/marches etc condemning the actions of this Islamic group from Muslims...

Protest marches do nothing. There have, however, been many statements of condemnation by the various Imam's worldwide, which is about as good as anyone is doing.

opinionated3

Philip7304 wrote: »

Just asking a question..Why haven't we seen worldwide protests/marches etc condemning the actions of this Islamic group from Muslims...

To be fair some British imams declared a fatwa against them so i think it's fair to assume that IS don't represent the majority of the Islamic world. Just a bunch of extremist head cases. It would be nice to see massive demonstrations calling for action against them though. ..... People seem in a big rush to get out and protest against Israel but won't do the same for this. ..

humanji

In fairness, the reason for people being able to protest Israel is because it's a specific country that ours and other countries have interactions with. With IS people can only really call for military action, as diplomacy isn't going to be accepted. And military action rarely sits well with people.

opinionated3

I see your point but i would argue that this is one of those cases where definitive military action is the only option on the table. Similar to what was required to remove hitler. No other choice available. Irish anti war would have you believe that there is another way....

humanji

Very true. I think that's probably going to be the biggest problem. No country will want to initiate a full scale war against them as it's never a good political decision, and as a result it's just another case of appeasement until there's no choice but to react. And at that point too many will have died.

Rightwing

The media should refrain from updating about these beheadings. They are simply playing into these savages hands.

Gatling

One thing nobody ever talks about the Americans didn't arm these guys most of the Syrian anti assad forces militia's were armed and funded by Arab countries regardless of what the tried to do ,
Its one of the reasons so many countries in the region have been so quite ,
Most of the equipment siezed gifted to them in iraq came from iraqi soldiers loyal in well knowledged what was coming ,
America did play a part but not to the degree people think they did,
The only way this is going to be stopped is a full on colilition from arab / Muslim countries with the help of American airpower

Philip7304

humanji wrote: »

Protest marches do nothing. There have, however, been many statements of condemnation by the various Imam's worldwide, which is about as good as anyone is doing.

I agree to a certain extent but it would send out such a strong message if there was a coordinated muslim retort from the muslim world....Would also gain favor in the west...

Fallschirmjager

Apparently they have beheaded the second journalist, Joel sotloff. The same British guy did it apparently.

Some British journalist is next...according to the web, a David cawthorne haines

sock puppet

opinionated3 wrote: »

Well able to think for myself pal. What's with the long winded passage? Do you think your more intelligent than those of us who see IS for what they really are? Sometimes, you know, things really are just Black and white. IS are simply evil savages. The international community should be coming together, putting boots on the ground and destroying them. No need to over complicate it. Keep it simple. Kill em all. Eradicate the problem and move on. Morals don't come into it because IS don't have them in the first place. If they want their 72 virgins I'm sure the combined will of the international community could easily arrange it. Just needs a leader with a real set of balls to organise it. Unfortunately it seems obama ain't that leader. ...

Why should it be up to Obama? Are EU countries not capable of providing military leadership? Of course the answer is absolutely not apart from France and possibly Britain, however I don't see how the weakness of the EU is Obama's fault. Don't Arab states have armies of their own too?

Gatling

sock puppet wrote: »

Don't Arab states have armies of their own too?

Yes they some are very well equipped and trained

But wont get involved

Jamiekelly

The EU should declare war on them. Boots on the ground and drones overhead. If the French can intervene against Boko Haram in Mali then the EU should be more than willing to put the hammer down on these cavemen.

The only problem is you can't just put those boots in Iraq. They need to go into Syria aswell for the sake of containment and cutting off any safe havens they have there. The main thing most western countries are afraid of is admitting that, considering they were calling for Assad's head on a platter only a few years ago. Now realising the back lash they'll get for being short sighted in their foreign policy.

Either way, I'd gladly sign up to fight them. I wouldn't care if I had to wear a British or American flag on my shoulder while doing it.

I am proudly "anti-war Irish" but I would be lying to myself in thinking this can be solved without boots on the ground with gun in hand.

tomwaterford

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The EU should declare war on them. Boots on the ground and drones overhead. If the French can intervene against Boko Haram in Mali then the EU should be more than willing to put the hammer down on these cavemen.

The only problem is you can't just put those boots in Iraq. They need to go into Syria aswell for the sake of containment and cutting off any safe havens they have there. The main thing most western countries are afraid of is admitting that, considering they were calling for Assad's head on a platter only a few years ago. Now realising the back lash they'll get for being short sighted in their foreign policy.

Either way, I'd gladly sign up to fight them. I wouldn't care if I had to wear a British or American flag on my shoulder while doing it.

I am proudly "anti-war Irish" but I would be lying to myself in thinking this can be solved without boots on the ground with gun in hand.

one tiny little problem with that

the eu doesn't have an army....and will never have the political will together to intervene in forgien countries.....jesus who wants to be stuck in a battle/prolonged war with them
they would be better to build up a tactical and intelligence led approach and weaken its more hard line members

Gatling

And with the current crisis in eastern Europe NATO are already hitting the panic button no way any nation in Europe will commit to Iraq again .
It's going to take at least another 10+ year occupation of Iraq to stabilise things again there and once isis is taken down there will mass revenge killings .,
And as long as clerics a such as Muqtada al-Sadr saying if foreign troops hit the ground he will unleash his army against them again .

It's a no win cluster **** that's not going to be solved any time soon

tomwaterford

Gatling wrote: »

And with the current crisis in eastern Europe NATO are already hitting the panic button no way any nation in Europe will commit to Iraq again .
It's gong to take at least another 10+ year occupation of Iraq to stabilise things again there and once isis is taken down there will mass revenge killings .,
And as long as clerics a such as Muqtada al-Sadr saying if foreign troops hit the ground he will unleash his army against them again .

It's a no win cluster **** that's not going to be solved any time soon

let them at it???
just arm there opposition aswell to protect the minorities??

what is to be gained by an occupation...just bitterness on all sides

My name is URL

Philip7304 wrote: »

Just asking a question..Why haven't we seen worldwide protests/marches etc condemning the actions of this Islamic group from Muslims...

There have been a load of protests by Muslims around the world.

http://rudaw.net/english/world/020820141

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/27/norways-muslims-rally-against-isis

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/hundreds-of-calgary-muslims-protest-isis-violence-in-iraq-1.2683589

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/22/Hundreds-of-Muslims-Join-Pro-Christian-Anti-ISIS-Rally-in-Baghdad

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicagoarea-assyrians-march-against-isis-others-protest-airstrikes-20140808-story.html

pablomakaveli

Egginacup wrote: »

Anyway,

ISIS are just another example of blowback thanks to disastrous, clueless and ill-thought out decisions made by America in its constant march towards controlling energy resources and strategic locations in the Middle East.
Arm a gang of lunatics to fight against Assad. Nevermind thinking it out. Nevermind who they are or what they do just turn them loose in Syria. It didn't take long for these nutcases to run amok in Iraq as well. As usual, America, with its housefly attention span and Bruce Willis approach to the real world fcuks up yet again. The truly childish way they approach things is staggering. But then what do you expect from a nation who are raised to get pissed off over late pizza deliveries instead of being patient, analytical, intelligent like other nations.
They arm the Afghan mujihadeen to fight the Soviets....then when the scrap is over they break their word to help rebuild the country and fcuk off laughing and high-fiving each other and then wonder why 10 years later there are such things as Al-Qaeda and the Taliban attacking them. They hug each other and say "we try to help everyone. they hate us for our freedoms" bullsh1t. And now they're at it again creating yet another entity through their own arrogance and stupidity in the form of ISIL/ISIS/IS. And they'll be whimpering and building memorials to dead Americans for years to come thanks to their creation of these groups.

Your massively over-simplifying the situation.

First off most of those arms came from the Syrian army itself. A lot of units off Assads army defected early in the war.

You also say the America armed the rebels. Which ones? The Kurds? FSA? Al-Nusra? the other Islamist factions fighting in Syria? You do realize the resistance to Assad was never a unified group. They all even fight each other. Your speaking as if they are all one hivemind mass. They aren't. IS were just one of those many groups who came out on top.

Also this may shock you but the people in these groups can think and act for themselves. They aren't all waiting in Syria for Washington to tell them what to do.

Yogosan

sock puppet wrote: »

Why should it be up to Obama? Are EU countries not capable of providing military leadership? Of course the answer is absolutely not apart from France and possibly Britain, however I don't see how the weakness of the EU is Obama's fault. Don't Arab states have armies of their own too?

Yeah... let's send in countries despised by the Middle-East (For good reason) to sort out there problems. What could go wrong?

ISIS are no doubt a bunch of crazy fanatics. However, after the US and Britain went in and ****ing tore Iraq and Libya apart, illegally, killing millions of innocent people, while the whole world including the largest Arab states did nothing or even supported them, is it any wonder these terrorists emerged?

The US and UK have made it clear that they can, and will, waltz into any Middle Eastern, kill/torture whoever they want, steal there resources, install a puppet government friendly to Western countries and get away with it.

And now you are calling on America and Europe to clean up the mess? Does that sound logical? Do you think sending in the US or EU, who have been a cancer on the Middle East for decades, will cause terrorism to rise or fall?

Western countries can only excacerbate conflicts in the Middle-East. The best we can do is stay out of it and defend ourselves if it comes to that. There are plenty of armies in the Middle-East that can sort out ISIS. 3 countries who cannot are Iraq, Libya and Palestine. And when I say stay out of it, I don't mean allowing the US to fund proxy wars between different etnic groups and overthrowing governments, which they do so frequently it almost seems as natural as the rising and setting of the sun.

Lord Trollington

There's no easy solution.

In the short term all US/British aid workers, journos and whoever else is in these countries working should be withdrawn with immediate effect.

niamhstokes

They basically take EVERY word literally in quran so they are basing it on this stuff:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. quran 9:29

...so we aren't muslims and need to be "humbled" and forced to pay tax to them for it

LMAO :P

SEPT 23 1989

Bad time to have such a weak American president

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

One thing nobody ever talks about the Americans didn't arm these guys most of the Syrian anti assad forces militia's were armed and funded by Arab countries regardless of what the tried to do ,
Its one of the reasons so many countries in the region have been so quite ,
Most of the equipment siezed gifted to them in iraq came from iraqi soldiers loyal in well knowledged what was coming ,
America did play a part but not to the degree people think they did,
The only way this is going to be stopped is a full on colilition from arab / Muslim countries with the help of American airpower

america are very involved in all this