ISIS are pure evil.

icecold1066

Egginacup wrote: »

I would just like to know what exactly ISIL/ISIS/IS are supposed to have done that is causing such outrage.
This isn't a joke question, I'm serious and genuinely want to know what sets them apart.

And please just answer the question. I don't want to hear from anybody who just glibly says "Oh, so you think it's just fine these guys do this that and the other? You think they just need a hug?" or some crap.
Save that kind of response for your drinking group.

It is not what ISIS have done but what they have the potential to do.

They threaten to capture Iraq - one of the most oil rich regions on the planet - and if they are left unchecked they may trigger copycat Islamic uprisings in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and other oil rich Gulf states.

Thousands of Islamists - from the region, from Europe, Africa, South America, Australia, Asia and America including converts to Islam - have flocked to the region to fight for ISIS.

These extremists could return to their home countries and launch jihadist uprisings on European and American streets.

Caliph Ibrahim wants to set himself up as basically the Muslim Pope who will be able to give orders to Muslims everywhere. His writ will have value among the extremists rather than secular legal writ in their country.

This extremism does not recognize borders because all of the world as they see it should become part of the Caliphate and anyone who is not of their extremist ideology should be killed.

It was easy to ridicule Bin Laden and his goons before 9/11 and even afterward when he ended up isolated in a walled compound surrounded by empty just for men bottles.

ISIS have realized their dream of creating an Islamic State and with another push could topple the Saudis and dominate the Middle East.

Ash.J.Williams

Egginacup wrote: »

I would just like to know what exactly ISIL/ISIS/IS are supposed to have done that is causing such outrage.
This isn't a joke question, I'm serious and genuinely want to know what sets them apart.

And please just answer the question. I don't want to hear from anybody who just glibly says "Oh, so you think it's just fine these guys do this that and the other? You think they just need a hug?" or some crap.
Save that kind of response for your drinking group.

without any knowledge whatsoever only what i read in the media:

1. mass executions
2. kidnapping
3. enforcing religion or non compliance tax

Peist2007

Gatling wrote: »

Post links to real varfied facts please

Not tin foilery

I'll have to have a look and come back to you. Asking for proof is reasonable so no problem

Harry Palmr

Egginacup wrote: »

I would just like to know what exactly ISIL/ISIS/IS are supposed to have done that is causing such outrage.
This isn't a joke question, I'm serious and genuinely want to know what sets them apart.

And please just answer the question. I don't want to hear from anybody who just glibly says "Oh, so you think it's just fine these guys do this that and the other? You think they just need a hug?" or some crap.
Save that kind of response for your drinking group.

ISIS/Islamic State are the 21st century Sunni version of the Crusades basically, (ironic or what?) they think, well they know they have God on their side and are going to kill or subjugate everyone who might stand in the way of a unified (Sunni) Islamic nation.

As Islamic State does not recognise red lines on an atlas map it essentially invites all those who are believers to join the "caliphate" and that means that in theory every country state is in theory under threat from Islamic State, though Spain (most of which was part of the Umayyad Caliphate) is at greater risk than say Iceland

6781

I don't think there is a political solution to the IS fascists. At the moment they are too powerful to hope the local non extremist Muslims will do anything about them. Even if they are armed by the West. The only way they can be defeated is a large scale military action against them.

mad muffin

It's time for the Arab League to get their collective thumbs out of their arses and do something.

They are sitting on vast amounts of wealth and modern weapons bought from the US and are doing nothing. Expecting the west to send in our soldiers to die.

When was the last time and Saudi or UAE soldier went to battle to defend the Middle East?

Bunch of fooking wasters.

Roger Hassenforder

6781 wrote: »

I don't think there is a political solution to the IS fascists. At the moment they are too powerful to hope the local non extremist Muslims will do anything about them. Even if they are armed by the West. The only way they can be defeated is a large scale military action against them.

unfortunately I cant see them turning up to fight full scale battle V a proper force; fade away into the dirt, turn up every now and then shoot a few kids and chop off a few heads is more to their liking.

opinionated3

Egginacup wrote: »

Well, after reading this dross...

Yes, go and stand in front of the UN with your superlative grasp of world affairs and geopolitics and deliver your "let's kick ass and take names!" speech.

I wouldn't bother taking names. ..... Just kick ass.

Harry Palmr

mad muffin wrote: »

It's time for the Arab League to get their collective thumbs out of their arses and do something.

They are sitting on vast amounts of wealth and modern weapons bought from the US and are doing nothing. Expecting the west to send in our soldiers to die.

When was the last time and Saudi or UAE soldier went to battle to defend the Middle East?

Bunch of fooking wasters.

They are Sunni states don't expect any help from them.

Deco99

Egginacup wrote: »

I would just like to know what exactly ISIL/ISIS/IS are supposed to have done that is causing such outrage.
This isn't a joke question, I'm serious and genuinely want to know what sets them apart.

And please just answer the question. I don't want to hear from anybody who just glibly says "Oh, so you think it's just fine these guys do this that and the other? You think they just need a hug?" or some crap.
Save that kind of response for your drinking group.

Genocide has been covered by another poster, the spread of their crusade by another. What sets them apart for me, and its just for me as I aint the most edumacated, is that they are operating in a large land mass where the two states rule has broken down and the peoples therein are completely without protection from committed jihadists who view everyone who is not them is the infidel. That means arawite, yazidi, christians, sunni who just aint hardcore enough and dont believe in allah, god or sheep to the same level as them are murdered in great numbers. The killing of yank reporters is a mistake as it brings the US further into an area they ran amok in for two years without hindrance.

Apart from being so clever at picking apart others opinions and posts, whats your concise view?

mad muffin

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They are Sunni states don't expect any help from them.

So they'd rather see the region burn than help stabilise it?

It's a pity we rely so much on their oil. That's all they have to offer the world…

LorMal

Egginacup wrote: »

Well there are two types of people. Those who can handle the truth no matter how uncomfortable and those who can't. The ones who can't handle the truth generally recognise when they are about to be presented with a piece of information that completely discredits their view in that they either launch into ad hominem attacks or they deflect the issue so as they don't have to dwell on it long enough for it to actually expose their errant position.

Not questioning one side of an argument and simply accepting a position is not independent thought at all.

There is more than two types or people. Except in your mind. You're right, everyone else is a unthinking moron.

The problem with your type of nonsense on the Internet is that it gives succour to the groups who are tryin to stir up hostillity against the West snd the US in particular. That's why those poor men had to read those statements before they were beheaded.
The bastards want to divide us. They want us to sneer at western values.
Good job Egg.

Gatling

mad muffin wrote: »

So they'd rather see the region burn than help stabilise it?

It's a pity we rely so much on their oil. That's all they have to offer the world…

The problems will suddenly come to light for them when they realise isis isnt going to stop at the iraq /kuwait boarder and say were a bunch of happy murdering bastards now well stop her and enjoy the scenery ,
They will keep rolling on into kuwait and then Saudi and further beyond ,
And there wont be and operation desert strike to stop them from a mainly American/ European military coalition to save the day

Tony EH

icecold1066 wrote: »

They threaten to capture Iraq -

Let's not get carried away. IS are about 10,000 strong by most estimations.

While they remain a particularly vile entity and a threat to specific regions within Iraq, Syria, etc, they are no way near the capacity needed to gain control of the entire country, or any country for that matter.

HazDanz

icecold1066 wrote: »

It is not what ISIS have done but what they have the potential to do.

They threaten to capture Iraq - one of the most oil rich regions on the planet - and if they are left unchecked they may trigger copycat Islamic uprisings in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and other oil rich Gulf states.

Thousands of Islamists - from the region, from Europe, Africa, South America, Australia, Asia and America including converts to Islam - have flocked to the region to fight for ISIS.

These extremists could return to their home countries and launch jihadist uprisings on European and American streets.

Caliph Ibrahim wants to set himself up as basically the Muslim Pope who will be able to give orders to Muslims everywhere. His writ will have value among the extremists rather than secular legal writ in their country.

This extremism does not recognize borders because all of the world as they see it should become part of the Caliphate and anyone who is not of their extremist ideology should be killed.

It was easy to ridicule Bin Laden and his goons before 9/11 and even afterward when he ended up isolated in a walled compound surrounded by empty just for men bottles.

ISIS have realized their dream of creating an Islamic State and with another push could topple the Saudis and dominate the Middle East.

They won't get past Baghdad. Shiite's won't allow it.

Saudi Arabia wouldn't roll over either, they have massive weapon reserves.

Kuwait is completely backed by USA and is too important as a strategic base in ME for them to just allow extremists rise up in the country, in fact they've been monitoring who is giving funds to IS and three big contributors were prosecuted just in the past two weeks in the country.

IS will keep to their Sunni areas and have a chance to consolidate their state but I think if they stretch any further they will hit a brick wall heading anywhere south of Baghdad.

Gatling

Tony EH wrote: »

Let's not get carried away. IS are about 10,000 strong by most estimations.

While they remain a particularly vile entity and a threat to specific regions within Iraq, Syria, etc, they are no way near the capacity needed to gain control of the entire country, or any country for that matter.

I believe your statement is flawed ,

Estimated 10,000 strong when it kicked off in iraq its safe to say you could double or treble that number now ,

And these apparently 10,000 rolled and left in tatters an army 30,000+ strong who have 10 years of training and were very well equipped with both heavy armour ,artillery ,air cover ,

Deco99

Gatling wrote: »

The problems will suddenly come to light for them when they realise isis isnt going to stop at the iraq /kuwait boarder and say were a bunch of happy murdering bastards now well stop her and enjoy the scenery ,
They will keep rolling on into kuwait and then Saudi and further beyond ,
And there wont be and operation desert strike to stop them from a mainly American/ European military coalition to save the day

Saudi operates under sharia law so why would they attack saudi given alot of them are saudi?

Nodin

Deco99 wrote: »

Saudi operates under sharia law so why would they attack saudi given alot of them are saudi?

"more muslim than thou". Essentially everyone who isn't IS is a legitimate target, regardless of sect. Bit mad.

HazDanz

mad muffin wrote: »

It's time for the Arab League to get their collective thumbs out of their arses and do something.

They are sitting on vast amounts of wealth and modern weapons bought from the US and are doing nothing. Expecting the west to send in our soldiers to die.

When was the last time and Saudi or UAE soldier went to battle to defend the Middle East?

Bunch of fooking wasters.

Saudi Arabia has always been involved with Arab dealings and helping neighbors. One's that spring to mind are the 1967 and 1973 oil embargos. They had no reason to help other states there really only for their sense of Arab nationalism.

UAE are a little different, they including the other gulf states enjoyed their dealings with the British for a long time so a sense of Arab nationalism has not always been on the forefront of their minds but Kuwait in particular has been involved like Saudi Arabia in 1973 oil embargo to help out Arab's looking to unify under one Arab objective.

mphalo1

the Antichrist is what they are the isis

icecold1066

Gatling wrote: »

The problems will suddenly come to light for them when they realise isis isnt going to stop at the iraq /kuwait boarder and say were a bunch of happy murdering bastards now well stop her and enjoy the scenery ,
They will keep rolling on into kuwait and then Saudi and further beyond ,
And there wont be and operation desert strike to stop them from a mainly American/ European military coalition to save the day

The parallels with the original rise of Islam are striking.

Prior to the rise of Islam, the Byzantine Empire and Persia were embroiled in a to and fro for supremacy in the Middle East. The Persians reached the walls of Constantinople and were rolled back. The plague of Justinian had alreadt laid waste to a third of the world's population and many of the great cities of the region were empty ruins full of weeds.
Arab mercenaries who fought for Persia or fought for Byzantium took advantage of the vacuum and led by Mohammad and his heirs swept all before them.

Today we have a declining America saddled with massive debts weary of war. We have a Europe with an aging white population, a Christianity that is now merely a husk, sluggish economies, high youth unemployment particularly among youths of North African and Middle Eastern descent and a disarmed militarily weak continent being flooded year on year by more hunger refugee mouths. China is extremely vulnerable to a sudden collapse in their economic bubble. Russia is tired and aging and an inferior power but for its thuggish leader Putin and oil and gas and nuclear weapons.
The Saudis are fat and lazy with slaves do their dirty work and an untested military armed with military toys.

Against a fanatical cunning and ruthless enemy they are all vulnerable.

ISIS have no doubt about what they believe is their destiny.

Skylinehead

old_aussie wrote: »

WWIII is at the door, America, and the clock is ticking.

WW3? A localised conflict in parts of two countries? You're going to have to explain how this is going to develop into a world war.

wretcheddomain

icecold1066 wrote: »

The parallels with the original rise of Islam are striking.

Prior to the rise of Islam, the Byzantine Empire and Persia were embroiled in a to and fro for supremacy in the Middle East. The Persians reached the walls of Constantinople and were rolled back. The plague of Justinian had alreadt laid waste to a third of the world's population and many of the great cities of the region were empty ruins full of weeds.
Arab mercenaries who fought for Persia or fought for Byzantium took advantage of the vacuum and led by Mohammad and his heirs swept all before them.

Today we have a declining America saddled with massive debts weary of war. We have a Europe with an aging white population, a Christianity that is now merely a husk, sluggish economies, high youth unemployment particularly among youths of North African and Middle Eastern descent and a disarmed militarily weak continent being flooded year on year by more hunger refugee mouths. China is extremely vulnerable to a sudden collapse in their economic bubble. Russia is tired and aging and an inferior power but for its thuggish leader Putin and oil and gas and nuclear weapons.
The Saudis are fat and lazy with slaves do their dirty work and an untested military armed with military toys.

Against a fanatical cunning and ruthless enemy they are all vulnerable.

ISIS have no doubt about what they believe is their destiny.

That's got to be the most sensationalist post of AH of all time. They're stuck in a desert with 10-20,000 members, that's about it. Yes - they'll make gains here and there but in the long run, things will fizzle out.

ISIS won't be ruling the world any time - so you should be able to sleep tonight.

WW3? A localised conflict in parts of two countries? You're going to have to explain how this is going to develop into a world war.

Think of Serbia, Austria and WW1

Gatling

wretcheddomain wrote: »

That's got to be the most sensationalist post of AH of all time. They're stuck in a desert with 10-20,000 members, that's about it. Yes - they'll make gains here and there but in the long run, things will fizzle out.

ISIS won't be ruling the world any time - so you should be able to sleep tonight.



Think of Serbia, Austria and WW1

Fizzle out, based off what exactly

wretcheddomain

Gatling wrote: »

Fizzle out, based off what exactly

That they've absolutely no chance of developing statehood. It's just not going to happen.

icecold1066

I have no doubt that Obama could easily get a military coalition together to take on ISIS.
The Saudis and the other Gulf States are terrified that ISIS will turn on them.
Iranian special forces are already on the ground fighting side by side with the Kurds and American special forces.
Since the rise of ISIS the Europeans and Americans are considering helping the Syrian government.
Russia is obviously supporting Syria and has a good relationship with Iran.
Israel obviously do not want ISIS to be in charge of Syria or Iraq either.
So for a brief window of time everyone is on the same side.

Gatling

wretcheddomain wrote: »

That they've absolutely no chance of developing statehood. It's just not going to happen.

They don't need statehood they can now export and replicate the Syria and iraq success ,
Pakistan ,Afghanistan ,libya ,African nations

Thats a whole lots of battles for the eu and the west to fight and win when theres absolutely no appatite to fight in any of the above

wretcheddomain

The answer to this:

Gatling wrote: »

They don't need statehood they can now export and replicate the Syria and iraq success ,
Pakistan ,Afghanistan ,libya ,African nations

Thats a whole lots of battles for the eu and the west to fight and win when theres absolutely no appatite to fight in any of the above

...has been put succinctly through this:

icecold1066 wrote: »

I have no doubt that Obama could easily get a military coalition together to take on ISIS.
The Saudis and the other Gulf States are terrified that ISIS will turn on them.
Iranian special forces are already on the ground fighting side by side with the Kurds and American special forces.
Since the rise of ISIS the Europeans and Americans are considering helping the Syrian government.
Russia is obviously supporting Syria and has a good relationship with Iran.
Israel obviously do not want ISIS to be in charge of Syria or Iraq either.
So for a brief window of time everyone is on the same side.

Gatling

wretcheddomain wrote: »

The answer to this:



...has been put succinctly through this:

That's one persons opinion based on America coming to save the day ,

These isis guys aren't your average so called rebels screaming allahu akbar ,allahu akbar, every time they fire a gun ,

These are well trained equipped and well versed in military tactics and have the complete military chain of command ,
No body wants to fight these guys the americans couldn't defeat the taliban in over 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan ,
These guys make the taliban look like dads army

HazDanz

Gatling wrote: »

That's one persons opinion based on America coming to save the day ,

These isis guys aren't your average so called rebels screaming allahu akbar ,allahu akbar, every time they fire a gun ,

These are well trained equipped and well versed in military tactics and have the complete military chain of command ,
No body wants to fight these guys the americans couldn't defeat the taliban in over 10 years of fighting in Afghanistan ,
These guys make the taliban look like dads army

What about the Kurds? Shiite's in Baghdad and other regions? - The new government once finalized/settled in Iraqi will gain more and more support from America and ISIS will be pushed back from Iraqi occupied areas. America want to aid a home defense, rather than having to occupy again in Iraq. I think all parties want this in fairness as the country doesn't have any fond memories of imperialism.

In Syria it could be a different ball game with Assad and all the sh*t he brings to the table so that's up in the air.