ISIS are pure evil.

conorhal

confusedquark wrote: »

As a Muslim, I very much agree with your assessment. I don't in the slightest consider ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. to represent Islam, and they are just as much a problem for Muslims are they are for the west. Religion is a very powerful tool and unfortunately is does get wrongly used. Conversation and co-operation is the only way forward - and unfortunately whilst some young lads do get brainwashed to join these wrong causes (and it is our responsibility to ensure we minimise that), the majority of us do see right from wrong and just want to live in peace.

But the problem with the middle east isn't that these groups have formed out of nowhere because a cleric somewhere has come up with a radical interpretation of the Koran. Much of the momentum behind them comes directly as a result of an angry backlash to western foreign policies/invasions in the area, and as much as us moderate Muslims need to play their part to tackle the issue, so must the west realise the part it has played in their creation (even to the extent of supplying these groups with arms when they first formed, such as the taliban when they were fighting the russians in afghanistan).

Western foreign policy has played it's part no doubt, but it's a particularly lazy explanation and the blame for radicalization lies much closer to home.
Number one on my list would be he pernicious influence of Saudi Arabia and Qatar that have spent vast sums of money on mosques and Islamic centres around the Arab world to spread their particularly regressive brand of Wahhabism Islam. He who pays the piper calls the tune, poor analogy I know, music being haram and all.
This extremism is more a product of Sunni and Shia conflict and the sectarian groups that have sprung up to fight that particular ideological battle, IS were born of this struggle.
Dictators and political dynasties in the middle east which have repressed Islamism or particular sects of Islam have also stoked their extremism, while powerful they tend to manage to keep a lid on it, but as in Syria, when they are weak the Islamists surge in popularity and power.
I also don’t buy the ‘few rotten apples’ argument, the same way I didn’t buy it when it was proffered as an explanation for clerical abuse here. There is in Islam’s leadership as there was in the church here an institutional cancer that has created a culture of silence or indeed implicit support for extremism.
I’m reminded of the Troubles in N.I. People would say that the ordinary Catholics didn’t support the IRA, but that was a hard circle to square with the numbers that voted for their political wing Sinn Fein when the conflict was at its height.
There was a shocking study a couple of years ago where a large attitudinal survey showed that 80% of Afghans, 76% of Pakistani’s, 86% of Egyptians and 82 percent of Jordanians would support a death sentence for apostasy (leaving Islam or converting to another religion). That’s a hard circle to square with the claims that the likes of IS have limited appeal with ordinary Muslims.

TwoShedsJackson

Gatling wrote: »

Estimated 10,000 strong when it kicked off in iraq its safe to say you could double or treble that number now ,

Being 'safe to say' does not equate to 'true'.

JimiTime

confusedquark wrote: »

As a Muslim, I very much agree with your assessment. I don't in the slightest consider ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. to represent Islam, and they are just as much a problem for Muslims are they are for the west. Religion is a very powerful tool and unfortunately is does get wrongly used.

As a Muslim yourself, do you know what part of your religion and its texts they are using/misusing?

Conversation and co-operation is the only way forward

Could you elaborate?

- and unfortunately whilst some young lads do get brainwashed to join these wrong causes (and it is our responsibility to ensure we minimise that), the majority of us do see right from wrong and just want to live in peace.

The angry young men I was actually talking about are converts. In London there are many street gang members, troubled youths etc that are given a 'purpose' etc. Taken under the wing of some Islamists, who give their violent wickedness a direction and let them feel its a divine cause.

But the problem with the middle east isn't that these groups have formed out of nowhere because a cleric somewhere has come up with a radical interpretation of the Koran. Much of the momentum behind them comes directly as a result of an angry backlash to western foreign policies/invasions in the area, and as much as us moderate Muslims need to play their part to tackle the issue, so must the west realise the part it has played in their creation (even to the extent of supplying these groups with arms when they first formed, such as the taliban when they were fighting the russians in afghanistan).

Honour killings and such have nothing to do with US foreign policy, and while the actions of the US etc at certain times may give Islamists some fuel to rally people to their cause, I'm not sure if I buy into the 'Its the west' type of idea.

Ash.J.Williams

sorcery....jeaysus

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-executes-19-during-half-of-august-in-disturbing-surge-of-beheadings-9686063.html

Gatling

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Being 'safe to say' does not equate to 'true'.

But unfortunately it's very likely true despite that excellent argument against ,

Not forgetting the towns who welcomed isis with a hero's welcome after they invaded iraq and according to western intelligence reports hundreds are flocking to the caliphate on a weekly basis

TwoShedsJackson

Gatling wrote: »

But unfortunately it's very likely true despite that excellent argument against ,

Not forgetting the towns who welcomed isis with a hero's welcome after they invaded iraq and according to western intelligence reports hundreds are flocking to the caliphate on a weekly basis

You want it to be true so you just state it as fact - you have no idea how many people are in ISIS and you never will.

Got a link to these 'western intelligence reports'?

Gatling

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

you have no idea how many people are in ISIS and you never will

Says you

wes

Gatling wrote: »

Says you

So you can provide a figure, the source for the figure, and the methodology as to how they came to that conclusion, then?

mrty

Yeah that's religion for ye, brainwashed idiots. Sure we in this country have more experience than most when it comes to religious brainwashing.

TwoShedsJackson

Gatling wrote: »

Says you

Well so's your face!! Way to back up your assertions there...

DarkJager

This is well worth a watch, a 5 part VICE documentary with the reporter inside of Raqqa. These people need to be annihilated.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7ELT6LKyJFKawB6gUsZSf7

Edit: I should mention there are some graphic images in this.

Roger Hassenforder

DarkJager wrote: »

This is well worth a watch, a 5 part VICE documentary with the reporter inside of Raqqa. These people need to be annihilated.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw613M86o5o7ELT6LKyJFKawB6gUsZSf7

Edit: I should mention there are some graphic images in this.

they dont seem to bad when you get to know them...

Gatling

Can't seem to post links error 500 and 404 keeps popping up.

So people will have to use Google .

Isis strength is currently believed to be 30,000 + currently in Iraq with another 50 /60 000 in Syria and numbers steadily increasing on a weekly basis.

BuilderPlumber

mrty wrote: »

Yeah that's religion for ye, brainwashed idiots. Sure we in this country have more experience than most when it comes to religious brainwashing.

Religion in the wrong hands is very dangerous. This is because one can say they have to obey a set of rules because they are god's and if they disobey, one is the devil so hence demonised and can be killed.

ISIS are that exactly. 99% of the world do not follow ISIS' brand of religion. So, that means 99% of the world are fair game to them: convert or die! Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahaii, Shia Muslims, Druze and other Muslim minority sects, Sikh, Taoist, Confucianist, atheist, pagan, African/Carribean Voodoo? All fair game for conversion or execution of course by ISIS. BUT surprise surprise so too are most Sunni Muslims. ISIS is not all about creating an Islamic Caliphate it is about creating an ISIS Caliphate with their warped interpretation of 'Islam' plus their fascist political apparatus.

With their money and strategic location, these guys are a major threat to everyone. Old country rivalries need to be set aside as ISIS thrive on this (invasions of Iraq, civil war in Syria, Arab/Persian rivalry, the ongoing Palestine issue, instability in Libya and West Africa all have aided and abetted ISIS and similar to gain power and influence).

Also, free speech in countries needs to be revised not to include freedom of hate speech. Any so-called preachers in so-called Mosques in London like that hook handed guy (looked like a villain straight out of James Bond) should be dealt with and their premises closed down. We also at the same time need to include decent Muslims in our broader society in countries that have significant Islamic communities. We need to hear and nurture the voice of moderate Islam and together defeat fascists of all types (Islamophobic fascists are the flipside of the same coin and these need to be dealt with too: the likes of Norway's Brevik being a perfect example).

Its Only Ray Parlour

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Any so-called preachers in so-called Mosques in London like that hook handed guy (looked like a villain straight out of James Bond) should be dealt with and their premises closed down.

He was extradited to America. From Wiki:

"On 19 May 2014, Abu Hamza was found guilty of terror charges, and will be sentenced on 9 September by Judge Katherine B. Forrest. British Home Secretary Theresa May said that she was "pleased" that Abu Hamza has "finally faced justice".[55] Abu Hamza's defence lawyer claimed "beliefs are not a crime" and indicated that an appeal would be lodged.[56] Hamza could face a life term in prison when he is sentenced in September 2014."

biko

A message to US president Obama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM

Ash.J.Williams

biko wrote: »

A message to US president Obama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzOVSMUrGM

I would call that propaganda...however IS support seems stronger than its detractors....I've only heard one Egyptian cleric speak out

wendell borton

Interesting video, but that's the background on it.

fedor.2.

RIP David Haines

Evil disgusting bastards.

RIP David Haines - he took a big risk going out there trying to help people, and he certainly didn't deserve this.

Ash.J.Williams

Are these murders fully sanctioned by the caliph or are they a splinter group under the same banner?

Gatling

Sick bastards

fedor.2.

They treated him terribly, at least his suffering is over now. They were never going to let him go.

opinionated3

I've said it before and I'llz say it again. ... kill em all, with any means possible! To hell with irish anti war and similar idiots. Rip mr haines

fr336

fedor.2. wrote: »

They treated him terribly, at least his suffering is over now. They were never going to let him go.

Didn't they release an Italian after getting 5 million in ransom for him? Of course that is an impossible route to go down for a sensible government.

fr336

opinionated3 wrote: »

I've said it before and I'llz say it again. ... kill em all, with any means possible! To hell with irish anti war and similar idiots. Rip mr haines

Who? The terrorists?

fedor.2.

fr336 wrote: »

Who? The terrorists?

Of course the terrorists. Stop looking for reasons to be offended.

fr336

fedor.2. wrote: »

Of course the terrorists. Stop looking for reasons to be offended.

Excuse me? You don't know what the poster meant. Jesus...if you want me to be pro war let's go lads dive right in I am when it comes to my personal safety, those around me and the country as a whole (I'm British so this news is about the country I reside in)

RobYourBuilder

opinionated3 wrote: »

I've said it before and I'llz say it again. ... kill em all, with any means possible! To hell with irish anti war and similar idiots. Rip mr haines

That's exactly what they want. ISIS has explicitly stated that their hope is to bring US troops back into the fight so that they can kill them and so that the deaths of innocent civilians can help them with their recruiting. These tulips are off the wall.

opinionated3

Of course i meant the Islamic terrorists. What did you think i meant....... All the British aid workers? ??