ISIS are pure evil.

Minjor

US/UK bombing in Syria and Iraq isn't going to help the Middle East at all. There will be collateral damage, innocent lives lost and it won't help improve attitudes towards the West. Have lessons not been learnt from the Iraq War in 2003?

The Islamic countries in the region should be taking up full responsibility in the fight against ISIS. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey etc. They have the capability to defeat the militants.

BoJack Horseman

Minjor wrote: »

The Islamic countries in the region should be taking up full responsibility in the fight against ISIS. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey etc. They have the capability to defeat the militants.

All politics is local.

Governments want to avoid killing fellow Muslims, preceding to let the already hated US take the lead.

SA, Turkey etc will never devote troops to destroying ISIS.

ivytwine

Zebra3 wrote: »

N
Nobody in the west has the right to support dictators that crushes the opportunities of freedom for the people of the ME.

"Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests" as Lord Palmerston said and 200 years later it's truer than ever. Western governments are willing to turn a blind eye for oil as BuilderPlumber so eloquently said.

What's happening in Saudi Arabia is downright wrong and as a woman I deplore the regime. But there's more chance of me sprouting wings and flying to the moon than the west confronting them about it.

Minjor

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

All politics is local.

Governments want to avoid killing fellow Muslims, preceding to let the already hated US take the lead.

SA, Turkey etc will never devote troops to destroying ISIS.

The Peshmarga should be strengthened and armed as much as they require.

ISIS are hated in that region now, I don't think it's impossible to get the likes of Turkey involved.

BoJack Horseman

Minjor wrote: »

The Peshmarga should be strengthened and armed as much as they require.

ISIS are hated in that region now, I don't think it's impossible to get the likes of Turkey involved.

Perhaps with weapons, advisors etc.

Deployed troops though?
Unlikely.

Ditto for SA or the other Arabian peninsula states.

old_aussie

Minjor wrote: »

US/UK bombing in Syria and Iraq isn't going to help the Middle East at all. There will be collateral damage, innocent lives lost and it won't help improve attitudes towards the West. Have lessons not been learnt from the Iraq War in 2003?
.

Yeah we wouldn't want some poor little inocent to get injured or even worse, killed.

Lets pull all troops and support out and let isis go on their merry way.

When isis start cutting the throats of everyone who doesn't go along with them in SA, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the middle east, we can stand proud and say"we didn't kill any innocents"

Let the muslim countries do the job, they'll have to eventually or they'll be subjugated and dictated to by isis.

We should have never stopped hitler, wouldn't have wanted to hurt any innocents.

BoJack Horseman

I'm still wondering, a couple months since ISIS invaded Iraq, where is the Iraqi army counter attack.

Those 200k+ troops must be exhausted sitting on their hands all day.

Minjor

old_aussie wrote: »

Yeah we wouldn't want some poor little inocent to get injured or even worse, killed.

Lets pull all troops and support out and let isis go on their merry way.

When isis start cutting the throats of everyone who doesn't go along with them in SA, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and the rest of the middle east, we can stand proud and say"we didn't kill any innocents"

Let the muslim countries do the job, they'll have to eventually or they'll be subjugated and dictated to by isis.

We should have never stopped hitler, wouldn't have wanted to hurt any innocents.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't completely misrepresent my opinion on this, cheers...

Sierra Oscar

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'm still wondering, a couple months since ISIS invaded Iraq, where is the Iraqi army counter attack.

Those 200k+ troops must be exhausted sitting on their hands all day.

Much of the Iraqi Army has effectively collapsed, and has been collapsing since long before ISIS took Mosul. When ISIS did take Mosul four divisions out of a total of fourteen disappeared overnight. The Iraqi Army is certainly still there on paper, but co-ordination at division level is hard to come by and you essentially have many brigades operating in isolation. The command structure is still very fragmented following all of the chaos of recent months. It is therefore difficult to organize large offensive operations. It is a mess.

The Iraqi Army has also lost an awful lot of Sunni troops, this is a sectarian conflict afterall. Shiites remain loyal to the army and the army itself is relying on Shiite militias to support it on the battlefield. However the result of this seems to be that the army lacks the morale and motivation necessary to retake predominately Sunni areas - where they know they will encounter a hostile domestic populace - such as Mosul and Fallujah.

Gatling

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Perhaps with weapons, advisors etc.

Deployed troops though?
Unlikely.

Ditto for SA or the other Arabian peninsula states.

There are several countries with special forces working with the peshmarga on the ground


Turkey certainly won't help there all were a Nato member for our protection and that's it we don't get involved

DarkyHughes

The people who blew up Dublin & Monaghan were pure evil & after killing 35 people including 3 babies, a whole family, & dozens of young women they actually boosted about it latter in statement saying

The entire operation was from its conception to its completely successful conclusion, planned and carried out by our volunteers

And a UWC spokesman said right after

"I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them.

UVF/SAS or ISIS all the same scum just different skin color. Anyone who targets innocent people in whatever fashion whether it's blowing them up with a car bomb, dropping bombs from the sky or cutting peoples heads of there all the same bunch of scum.

Gatling

DarkyHughes wrote: »

The people who blew up Dublin & Monaghan were pure evil & after killing 35 people including 3 babies, a whole family, & dozens of young women they actually boosted about it latter in statement saying



UVF/SAS or ISIS all the same scum just different skin color. Anyone who targets innocent people in whatever fashion whether it's blowing them up with a car bomb, dropping bombs from the sky or cutting peoples heads of there all the same bunch of scum.

Unfortunately people just can't be civilised it is nessescary to drop bombs out of planes or drones to fix some evil people.

Peace love and happiness hadn't got us very far has it

Roger Hassenforder

Zebra3 wrote: »

No, because bitching is it all it is. Because there's only people going on about a few beheading by ISIS and not the huge number of beheadings by SA.

that's almost the dumbest post I've ever read.

DarkyHughes

Gatling wrote: »

Unfortunately people just can't be civilised it is nessescary to drop bombs out of planes or drones to fix some evil people.

Peace love and happiness hadn't got us very far has it

So why didn't we drop some bombs or drones "to fix" some evil people in the North of Ireland. Oh that's right our "law & order" government of the time didn't really give a sh!t about it's citizens, not to mention it would have been immoral & wrong plus it would be counter-productive. It will just attract more people to join extremists like ISIS which is how they came about it in the first place by dropping bombs on people in the 2003 war. Brute military force will work if your goal is to destroy Iraq it won't work if your goal if to bring peace to the region.
Let me give you a example a bit closer to home, Remember the Falls Curfew, 1971 Interment & the Ballymurphy & Bloody Sunday massacres? Well before those events it was estimated the IRA had around 200 members by the time interment had ended they had 1000's maybe 10's of 1000's brute military force is a recruitment sergeant for the type of groups you claim to be worried about.

And we actually have managed to get peace in Ireland & we didn't get by dropping bombs on people. We might have got it in 1974 but right wing elements in the British "terrorist" security forces wanted a military solution to the problem not a political one.

Minjor

Britain is joining the air strikes in Iraq. A huge majority in parliament voted for the motion.

yipeeeee

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Much of the Iraqi Army has effectively collapsed, and has been collapsing since long before ISIS took Mosul. When ISIS did take Mosul four divisions out of a total of fourteen disappeared overnight. The Iraqi Army is certainly still there on paper, but co-ordination at division level is hard to come by and you essentially have many brigades operating in isolation. The command structure is still very fragmented following all of the chaos of recent months. It is therefore difficult to organize large offensive operations. It is a mess.

The Iraqi Army has also lost an awful lot of Sunni troops, this is a sectarian conflict afterall. Shiites remain loyal to the army and the army itself is relying on Shiite militias to support it on the battlefield. However the result of this seems to be that the army lacks the morale and motivation necessary to retake predominately Sunni areas - where they know they will encounter a hostile domestic populace - such as Mosul and Fallujah.

Reminds me of that brilliant yet frightening scene in apocalypse now, when he arrives at that bridge where all command has collapsed and the troops are just operating on their own not knowing who's in charge or what's going on.

Great scene, great film.

Fratton Fred

DarkyHughes wrote: »

UVF/SAS or ISIS all the same scum just different skin color. Anyone who targets innocent people in whatever fashion whether it's blowing them up with a car bomb, dropping bombs from the sky or cutting peoples heads of there all the same bunch of scum.

No mention of the PIRA in your little rant?

yipeeeee

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No mention of the PIRA in your little rant?

What about...

Fratton Fred

yipeeeee wrote: »

What about...

Not what about, more "let's see if you're a hypocrite or not".

Gatling

DarkyHughes wrote: »

And we actually have managed to get peace in Ireland & we didn't get by dropping bombs on people. We might have got it in 1974 but right wing elements in the British "terrorist" security forces wanted a military solution to the problem not a political one.

We didn't do a lot in the north now did we .
The British army and various dettachments did a fine job in some cases dealing with scum .
Apparently the Irish army were planning to send troops but when they realised they would be massacred they came to there senses pretty quick .
But this is 2014 and this has noting to do with our little northern issues.

So we should really negotiate with these animals to reach what achievement exactly .
They are as long as they don't hack people's heads off or crucifixions .
Will they put down there arms and disengage all the forces.

of course they wont

Here's the tools required .

500lb -5000lb smart bombs .

A 10 tank busters

apache helicopters

Well trained forces

and you have true 7.62 diplomacy

l

DarkyHughes

Gatling wrote: »

We didn't do a lot in the north now did we .
The British army and various dettachments did a fine job in some cases dealing with scum .
Apparently the Irish army were planning to send troops but when they realised they would be massacred they came to there senses pretty quick .
But this is 2014 and this has noting to do with our little northern issues.

So we should really negotiate with these animals to reach what achievement exactly .
They are as long as they don't hack people's heads off or crucifixions .
Will they put down there arms and disengage all the forces.

of course they wont

Here's the tools required .

500lb -5000lb smart bombs .

A 10 tank busters

apache helicopters

Well trained forces

and you have true 7.62 diplomacy

l

Yep, the UDR/A really showed the Miami Showband. Our forces (The forces of the Irish Republic) carried out some fine attacks & operations like Drummuckavall ambush, Glassdrumann, Operation Conservation counter-ambush, Ballygawely barracks raid etc... some really fine work for no money unlike the mercenaries sent to back up the Orange State & help out Loyalist death squads.

Your going to use all that weaponry on about 20,000 guerrilla's who control a area about the size of Britain. yeah let me know how that disaster plays out. The worst thing about ISIS is they don't even broadcast their head choppings on TV unlike our loyal Saudi dictator allies who show them weekly, they also have trillions of dollars in US banks.

Gatling

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Your going to use all that weaponry on about 20,000 guerrilla's who control a area about the size of Britain. yeah let me know how that disaster plays out. The worst thing about ISIS is they don't even broadcast their head choppings on TV unlike our loyal Saudi dictator allies who show them weekly, they also have trillions of dollars in US banks.

Isis will be wiped out in around 12 months or less .
They don't broadcast their be headings .crucifixions. mass killings of prisoner because they down have a tv station they do have a slick propaganda wing .
But once death from above starts reinging full on how many of the isis crowd will suddenly want to flee to there home nations

DarkyHughes

This is like that Father Ted episode "Speed" were milk float has to keep going around at a certain speed so a bomb won't go off & the priests are there trying to come up wit solutions to the problem "what about we say another mass perhaps?". It's like the Americans situation to the Iraq problem every single time. "what about some more bombing from above?" Since the the 1920's when we started using chemical weapons on them this has been our policy to these unfortunate people, overthrown presidents & kings, installed the Ba'th party, uninstalled it. We really are a bunch of dangerous maniacs.

crockholm

Gatling wrote: »

Isis will be wiped out in around 12 months or less .
They done broadcast their be headings .crucifixions. mass killings of prisoner because they down have a tv station they do have a slick propaganda wing .
But once death from above starts reinging full on how many of the isis crowd will suddenly want to flee to there home nations

I really hope that you are right,but I Believe that we will be hearing about ISIS for a long time to come-whatever about their twisted ideaologies-they do appear to be quite capable Soldiers.

I Believe that their religious beliefs make them tougher fighters-they are less afraid of Death(they Believe genuinely that they will be rewarded for falling in battle) and more committed to their cause than some opponent in it just to pay the bills.

You can see the secret services in many european nations starting to twitch at the number of residents joining the fight,to some within the muslim communities they are being seen as the ones who stood up to the west and didn't run for cover in Caves,this can add to their appeal to disenfranchised youth.

ISIS or some other form of hydra headed form of islamic extremism is going to be a part of Life for a long time to come.

BoJack Horseman

DarkyHughes wrote: »

This is like that Father Ted episode "Speed" were milk float has to keep going around at a certain speed so a bomb won't go off & the priests are there trying to come up wit solutions to the problem "what about we say another mass perhaps?". It's like the Americans situation to the Iraq problem every single time. "what about some more bombing from above?" Since the the 1920's when we started using chemical weapons on them this has been our policy to these unfortunate people, overthrown presidents & kings, installed the Ba'th party, uninstalled it. We really are a bunch of dangerous maniacs.

Who is this "we"?

What is your solution?

Minjor

Gatling wrote: »

There are several countries with special forces working with the peshmarga on the ground


Turkey certainly won't help there all were a Nato member for our protection and that's it we don't get involved

Don't quite understand all of your last sentence but why can't Turkey lead this fight? After all, they are a NATO member and have a powerful army.

Meglamonia

Even if ISIS are rid of won't another group pop up in a few years with similar ideologies? Not being defeatist but we're almost fighting a losing battle against Islam, it's poison.

pablomakaveli

Minjor wrote: »

Don't quite understand all of your last sentence but why can't Turkey lead this fight? After all, they are a NATO member and have a powerful army.

It would put Turkey into a conflict on the same side as the Kurds who don't get on well with the Turks. I'd imagine the Turks are probably happy to see the Kurds attention put elsewhere.

Gatling

Minjor wrote: »

Don't quite understand all of your last sentence but why can't Turkey lead this fight? After all, they are a NATO member and have a powerful army.

Turkey doesnt get involved in any thing because there afraid of upsetting some of there own Muslim community ,
They are quite happy to be a member of nato as long as it doesnt involve them deploying troops or equipment ,
They could easily lead the way in these conflicts but there simply not interested ,
After this and isis is dealth with im pretty sure the kurds will set up there own state then things could get interesting,

Add the fact a lot of foreign Isis are openly travelling through turkey to get both Syria and iraq

Minjor

Gatling wrote: »

Turkey doesnt get involved in any thing because there afraid of upsetting some of there own Muslim community ,
They are quite happy to be a member of nato as long as it doesnt involve them deploying troops or equipment ,
They could easily lead the way in these conflicts but there simply not interested ,
After this and isis is dealth with im pretty sure the kurds will set up there own state then things could get interesting,

Add the fact a lot of foreign Isis are openly travelling through turkey to get both Syria and iraq

Same story for Saudi Arabia then? But in fairness, they've arms and hundred of planes bought from the West, about time they made themselves useful.

When it comes down to it, that country is responsible for a lot of extremism over the years. It's time for them to start repenting for the huge funding they've given Islamic militants.