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ISIS are pure evil.
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Well ISIS have shown there disregard for human rights by torturing and beheading a female human rights lawyer.
http://reliefweb.int/report/iraq/un-envoy-condemns-public-execution-human-rights-lawyer-ms-sameera-al-nuaimy-enar
You really have to despair for the people living under ISIS control.0 -
DarkyHughes wrote: »There was Irish people decapitated by bombs in Dublin did you want Irish troops to go into N.Ireland?
If this had been in Russia or China the Americans wouldn't have done anything because there armies might pose a threat to the United States, unlike the gang of ragtag loopers their going to bomb.
Thankfully the Dublin bombings and worst of the troubles played out before I was born and is now two decades in the past. However, in the early seventies we experienced a political crises over the issue of whether to send troops in to protect fellow Irishmen who were being burned out of their houses and generally terrorised. Irish troops mobilised south of the border and Jack Lynch offered a particularly memorable national address on the topic. So yes, that sentiment did exist and would no doubt exist today if a similar situation arose. Whether it would be the majority view is another question.
And coming back to the topic at hand, this would never be Russia or China or an organised and civilised nation with military capability. Why? Because such nations would destroy these barbaric savages if they tried to operate within their borders. This behaviour doesn't occur unchecked to such a degree in the civilised world.0 -
islam itself is the root of all that is ths evil calling itself isis.
As long as islam exists this evil will continue.
islam started by the sword and still continues today to try and expand and implement itself by the sword.
Untill muslims realise this, islam will continue to be the main cause of terror and subjugation all over the world.
All I see in the news is, islam did this, islam did that, and none of it is good news anywhere in every country that has islam involved.
islam is even starting to raise it's ugly second head in Australia.
Whithin hours muslims were protesting on the streets that they are being vilified because the police are arresting muslims and the government is introducing more laws to do with terrorism.0 -
old_aussie wrote: »islam itself is the root of all that is ths evil calling itself isis.
As long as islam exists this evil will continue.
islam started by the sword and still continues today to try and expand and implement itself by the sword.
Untill muslims realise this, islam will continue to be the main cause of terror and subjugation all over the world.
All I see in the news is, islam did this, islam did that, and none of it is good news anywhere in every country that has islam involved.
islam is even starting to raise it's ugly second head in Australia.
Whithin hours muslims were protesting on the streets that they are being vilified because the police are arresting muslims and the government is introducing more laws to do with terrorism.
Now, now, now, Islam is a religion of peace. It may preach hatred against homosexuals, treat women as half the worth of a man and even try to justify child marriages, but all that should be ignored for no good reason.
Seriously, though, it's just a cult. A cult becomes a religion when it has millions of followers or when it's endorsed by a state. Cults don't deserve any respect - particularly ones that preach hatred against our fellow man.0 -
old_aussie wrote: »islam itself is the root of all that is ths evil calling itself isis.
As long as islam exists this evil will continue.
islam started by the sword and still continues today to try and expand and implement itself by the sword.
Untill muslims realise this, islam will continue to be the main cause of terror and subjugation all over the world.
All I see in the news is, islam did this, islam did that, and none of it is good news anywhere in every country that has islam involved.
islam is even starting to raise it's ugly second head in Australia.
Whithin hours muslims were protesting on the streets that they are being vilified because the police are arresting muslims and the government is introducing more laws to do with terrorism.
"Neither kill a child, nor a women, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock,save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who devoted their lives to monastic services, leave them alone" Mohammed the Prophet of Islam to his army before going to war~
Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace,
Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and antisocial
elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the cross road” (Page 8):
“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping
through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.”
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.\
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would
not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
All you have said are words pulled from your own ass with no evidence nor sources supporting your claim you are clearly very ignorant of Islam's teaching its prophet and its Book which is no surprise go educate your self please before you open that mouth to talk0 -
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old_aussie wrote: »islam itself is the root of all that is ths evil calling itself isis.
As long as islam exists this evil will continue.
islam started by the sword and still continues today to try and expand and implement itself by the sword.
Untill muslims realise this, islam will continue to be the main cause of terror and subjugation all over the world.
All I see in the news is, islam did this, islam did that, and none of it is good news anywhere in every country that has islam involved.
islam is even starting to raise it's ugly second head in Australia.
Whithin hours muslims were protesting on the streets that they are being vilified because the police are arresting muslims and the government is introducing more laws to do with terrorism.
A lot of muslims even some of the more fundamentalist ones have spoke out and protested against what ISIS are doing. ISIS represent only themselves. Remember the majority of their victims have been fellow muslims.0 -
If any one is interested recently More than 120 Islamic scholars from around the world wrote an open letter to the leader of ISIS Al-Baghdadi, denouncing ISIS and its fundamentals. Everyone should at least go through these points to understand how ISIS’s ideology is far away from the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Full letter link -I cant post since due to having <50 posts but you can look it up-.
Quick summary of the 17 page letter:
"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”0 -
Face it people are fed up with the whole it's our way or or religious ways or else quoting this scholar or that scholar won't help when It appears so many nut jobs are preaching death and extermination to all non believers the rest of society has moved on from biblical times
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »"Neither kill a child, nor a women, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock,save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who devoted their lives to monastic services, leave them alone" Mohammed the Prophet of Islam to his army before going to war~
Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word ‘salaam’, which means peace. It also means submitting one’s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace,
Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and antisocial
elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O’Leary in the book “Islam at the cross road” (Page 8):
“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping
through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated.”
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.\
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would
not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
All you have said are words pulled from your own ass with no evidence nor sources supporting your claim you are clearly very ignorant of Islam's teaching its prophet and its Book which is no surprise go educate your self please before you open that mouth to talk
Looks like you were a star pupil at some deobandi school if that post is anything to go by.
Firstly, regards spain-remember it was the muslim armies who invaded (present day) spain, so to call them crusaders when they were but liberating occupied territory.
At times,and at different locations under different emirs there could be (in Contemporary terms,at least)tolerence shown to the native populations but also there were darker times under the Almoravids and especially the Almohads(who declared a jihad on all Christians),and even some of the more tolerant-such as the Umayyads-could decree that non muslims could not serve in government posts (A.D. 741).
As for the Copts etc. living in "muslim lands", it's not like some of your Faiths more excitable members didn't do their best to eradicate christians from their ancestral homelands- 2 of the bogeymen in Assyrian Culture are Tamerlane and the Kurd Badr Khan,and by Jupiter,they did their utmost to kill and enslave christians when they could.
So as entertaining a storyteller as you are-you don't get to hoodwink history;)0 -
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »
"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”
25. It is forbidden in Islam to avoid overreacting to criticism, however small.0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »If any one is interested recently More than 120 Islamic scholars from around the world wrote an open letter to the leader of ISIS Al-Baghdadi, denouncing ISIS and its fundamentals. Everyone should at least go through these points to understand how ISIS’s ideology is far away from the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Full letter link -I cant post since due to having <50 posts but you can look it up-.
Quick summary of the 17 page letter:
"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”
ISIS and their predecessor al Qaeda are not Islamic. These and other so-called 'Islamic' terrorists and dictators disobey every single teaching of the Koran and their objective is to control the world via Islam, oil and Arab identity. Sunni Islam is one of the 2 biggest religions in the world along with Catholicism. Arab identity (ethnicity and language too) stretches from West Africa to West Iran inclusive. A huge area. Oil provides the money to channel their propaganda to fellow Arab and Muslims.
Thankfully, no Muslims have taken Baghdadi as caliph seriously and he is very self styled for the moment and I doubt if he will ever have wide support. Many Muslims I know are shocked by their acts and let's face it: no sane person of any religion could condone what they do and what they stand for.
Baghdadi sees himself as a mix of Mohammed, Saladin and the Ottoman caliphs in his own mind: he is not fit to be compared to any of these. What ISIS do is not freedom fighting and they do not have a just cause. They don't seek freedom for their people: they want to destroy and kill other races and they want their 'Islam' to be the only brand. Hence, Yazidis, Shia and mainstream Sunnis are given the same treatment as Americans and Europeans. ISIS is a danger to the Islamic and Western worlds, period and are a common enemy of every nation state on earth.0 -
I'm really not one for posting in After Hours, but i saw this thread and felt like throwing my 2 cents in, ISIS as i see them are a pack of wild dogs, and wild dogs should be put down effectively, and i for one, though i'm sure i'm not the only one welcome the airstrikes currently being used by the U.S and the assembled coalition.0
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What does tolerance have to do with "Islam being spread by the sword? which was my whole point it wasn't spread by the sword as people claim however lets take a look at some of the points you raised:Looks like you were a star pupil at some deobandi school if that post is anything to go by.
Firstly, regards spain-remember it was the muslim armies who invaded (present day) spain, so to call them crusaders when they were but liberating occupied territory.
At times,and at different locations under different emirs there could be (in Contemporary terms,at least)tolerence shown to the native populations but also there were darker times under the Almoravids and especially the Almohads(who declared a jihad on all Christians),and even some of the more tolerant-such as the Umayyads-could decree that non muslims could not serve in government posts (A.D. 741).
As for the Copts etc. living in "muslim lands", it's not like some of your Faiths more excitable members didn't do their best to eradicate christians from their ancestral homelands- 2 of the bogeymen in Assyrian Culture are Tamerlane and the Kurd Badr Khan,and by Jupiter,they did their utmost to kill and enslave christians when they could.
So as entertaining a storyteller as you are-you don't get to hoodwink history;)
"Firstly, regards spain-remember it was the muslim armies who invaded (present day) spain, so to call them crusaders when they were but liberating occupied territory."
You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "crusaders" which means a person who campaigns vigorously for political, social, or religious change; a campaigner. Crusaders if the official term for a military campaign lead by Christians from around the European world at the time. However you totally missed my point when the Christian rule returned the Muslims were completely massacred in an attempt to completely remove Islam from the land compare that to when the Muslim armies first entered the country 800 years prior to that were its civilians were granted the status of ahl al-dhimma (the people under protection),
"As for the Copts etc. living in "muslim lands", it's not like some of your Faiths more excitable members didn't do their best to eradicate Christians from their ancestral homelands- 2 of the bogeymen in Assyrian Culture are Tamerlane and the Kurd Badr Khan,and by Jupiter,they did their utmost to kill and enslave christians when they could."
Ok you mentioned 2 people there namely Tmerlane and Badr Khan.
To begin with Such incidents are very rare across Islamic history whereby a true Muslim ruler would attempt to do such things however lets take a look at Tamerlane Imam Al Bazari who wrote al fatawa al bazariah who lived with him accused him of apostasy which is unusual for those who follow the Hanafi school of Figh who are very strict in this regard, another scholar of Islam Al-Sakhawi a reputable Shafi'i Muslim hadith scholar and historian said "He follows the rules of Genghis Khan and places them above the Quran & sunnah and for that many scholars declared him to be a kafir -Non-Muslim-even though the rituals of Islam are clear in his state"Al-Daw' al-lami` (3/49). & hence his actions cannot be taken as the work of a Muslim since he wasn't even following Islamic rules.
As for Bedr Khan I don't know why your even mentioning him as Islam nor declaring Jihad were his motives for committing his Massacre.
At the end of the day however the Copts are still present and were not massacred like the Muslims of Spain and the fact remains that 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians supporting my original point that Islam was NOT spread by the sword
I skipped your points regarding the period of Muslim rule in Spain and the darker times you mentioned due to my lack of knowledge with that period however you would be very Naive to expect that for 800 years perfect tolerance would be in place and that from time to time a group will rise just like ISIS today with radical ideology and commit such actions.
Before you criticize Islam you need to understand where the world would be today if Islam didn't exist specially Europe lets see what the Islamic civilisation have brought you today:
Coffee,Cameras,Chess,Soap,Distillation, The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe's Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture.Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci which include Algebra & the numerical system. and much much more refer to 1001 Inventions: Muslim Heritage in Our World for sources and more.0 -
I really don't have the knowledge to argue with you about the early spread of Islam,how it spread and the methods used.What I disagree with you is your use of Spain and the Copts/Assyrians/Chaldeans in your narrative.
As for your last paragraph.....You know,it's funny,but,when I see an invention that was imagined/designed/built by a Christian/Jew/Atheist, I don't see it as a Xtian/jewish/atheist invention...it just is what it is.So I'm not so sure about the purpose of the paragraph is.
Just fyi,I actually Think chess and the pointed arch both predate Islam,and thats just off the top of my head .0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »Coffee,Cameras,Chess,Soap,Distillation, The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe's Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture.Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci which include Algebra & the numerical system. and much much more refer to 1001 Inventions: Muslim Heritage in Our World for sources and more.
it always makes me laugh when muslims try to prove islam invented everything, cameras LOL
if islam is so great, why is it that the more islamic a country, the bigger a ****hole it is, if you want to know what the future holds for the islamic world just take a trip to yemen0 -
Man created science and medicine and astronomy. Democracy .religion
Man created architecture .and everything ever created by hand
Doesn't matter what religion they were they were men first .
If that's the case .
What religion created cars
What religion created airplanes
What religion put a man on the moon
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it always makes me laugh when muslims try to prove islam invented everything, cameras LOL
if islam is so great, why is it that the more islamic a country, the bigger a ****hole it is, if you want to know what the future holds for the islamic world just take a trip to yemen
Read about Ibn Al haytham to understand how the invention of Camera came about & yes however even though its the "Islamic world" Islam it self is not being practised in it and this is why its in the state it is in currently because the Muslims deviated away from their book & true values and started following the west & its ideologies forgetting that it was the west who was following them beforehand they held strongly to their traditions and beliefs as for the Future we will have to wait and see what happens then0 -
Likely because you live in Rupert Murdoch land and rather than address intelligently the issues of the day they make up anti-Muslim nonsense or spin (non) news "Muslim attacks Australian boy" etc.old_aussie wrote: »islam itself is the root of all that is ths evil calling itself isis.
As long as islam exists this evil will continue.
islam started by the sword and still continues today to try and expand and implement itself by the sword.
Untill muslims realise this, islam will continue to be the main cause of terror and subjugation all over the world.
All I see in the news is, islam did this, islam did that, and none of it is good news anywhere in every country that has islam involved.
islam is even starting to raise it's ugly second head in Australia.
Whithin hours muslims were protesting on the streets that they are being vilified because the police are arresting muslims and the government is introducing more laws to do with terrorism.
There are issues with Islam, both fundamentalist and political (and where both converge) but anti-Muslim spitefulness and ignorance are part of the problem too.
Haven't read this thread but I'd appreciate to hear what the masterplan for Iraq is now...Kill every last one of them? How do "we" win this?0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »If any one is interested recently More than 120 Islamic scholars from around the world wrote an open letter to the leader of ISIS Al-Baghdadi, denouncing ISIS and its fundamentals. Everyone should at least go through these points to understand how ISIS’s ideology is far away from the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Full letter link -I cant post since due to having <50 posts but you can look it up-.
Quick summary of the 17 page letter:
"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”
Number 21 is my favourite.0 -
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Defender OF Faith wrote: »If any one is interested recently More than 120 Islamic scholars from around the world wrote an open letter to the leader of ISIS Al-Baghdadi, denouncing ISIS and its fundamentals. Everyone should at least go through these points to understand how ISIS’s ideology is far away from the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Full letter link -I cant post since due to having <50 posts but you can look it up-.
Quick summary of the 17 page letter:
"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.
2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.
3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.
4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.
5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.
7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.
8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.
9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.
10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.
11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.
12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.
13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.
16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.
17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.
18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.
19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.
20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.
21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.
22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.
23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”
Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/muslim-scholars-islamic-state_n_5878038.html0 -
Brown Bomber wrote: »Have you? And what is your point?
yeah I have
my point is islam is the root cause of the problems in the middle east
most muslims can't see it, in fact most muslims think islam is the solution to their problems
ISIS in iraq is just the start, there will be similar groups in other arab countries soon enough0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »Read about Ibn Al haytham to understand how the invention of Camera came about & yes however even though its the "Islamic world" Islam it self is not being practised in it and this is why its in the state it is in currently because the Muslims deviated away from their book & true values and started following the west & its ideologies forgetting that it was the west who was following them beforehand they held strongly to their traditions and beliefs as for the Future we will have to wait and see what happens then
I read about him, a great scientist and scholar but he did not invent the camera
the fact that muslims come up with things like this just shows that deep down that know that their culture and society is in decline, and the fact that you think the solution to the decline is a pure forum of true islam means the decline will continue0 -
Defender OF Faith wrote: »5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.
14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.
24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”
These three stick out as palpably absurd.
It's funny how many Muslims refer to the developments in maths and invention a thousand years ago, as if they're openly admitting to having achieved nothing since. It appears more a concession than anything else.0 -
Interesting...So, tell us about Yemen. Package deal was it?yeah I have
You are just babbling now. If you really want to understand the motivations of Islamic extremists you can read bin Laden's 96 fatwa. So you do that now and let me know what you think.my point is islam is the root cause of the problems in the middle east
most muslims can't see it, in fact most muslims think islam is the solution to their problems
And then when you have time and you want to understand even more you can watch this lecture by Prof. Robert Pape, let me know how you get on.
Only Arab? How does that work when Islam is supposedly the problem? Or was it a xenophobic slip?ISIS in iraq is just the start, there will be similar groups in other arab countries soon enough0 -
Brown Bomber wrote: »Interesting...So, tell us about Yemen. Package deal was it?
Only Arab? How does that work when Islam is supposedly the problem? Or was it a xenophobic slip?
yeah it will be mainly in the arab world, for example ISIS have very strong support in saudi arabia, but a shia version of ISIS would have far less support in iran, I think in 10 years or less the saudi royal family will be replaced by ISIS or a group like it
yeah Yemen is an interesting place, large population growth and shrinking resource base, and the population is growing so fast because people think is a good idea to marry 9 year old girls
I wonder where they got that idea0 -
yeah I have
my point is islam is the root cause of the problems in the middle east
most muslims can't see it, in fact most muslims think islam is the solution to their problems
ISIS in iraq is just the start, there will be similar groups in other arab countries soon enough
Do please expand on this, with a few examples.0 -
Do please expand on this, with a few examples.
are ISIS a problem
I doubt most women in saudi arabia like their lack of rights
the way poor immigrant workers get treated in dubai or qutar might have some thing to do with the fact that slavery is allowed in islam
do you know what they do to gays in iran0 -
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What are you basing this on?yeah it will be mainly in the arab world, for example ISIS have very strong support in saudi arabia,
What are you basing this on?but a shia version of ISIS would have far less support in iran,
Why should I pay any attention to your predictions? Why do you even pay any attention to them? It sounds like they are just coming off the top of your head, or from other body parts.I think in 10 years or less the saudi royal family will be replaced by ISIS or a group like ityeah Yemen is an interesting place, large population growth and shrinking resource base, and the population is growing so fast because people think is a good idea to marry 9 year old girls
I wonder where they got that idea
Dunno, from the Jewish-Christian example in the Torah?
The life of Sarah was [a hundred and twenty seven years.”] This makes Isaac thirty-seven years old, and at that time, Rebecca was born. He waited for her until she would be fit for marital relations-three years-and then married her. — [From Gen. Rabbah 57:1; http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8220#showrashi=true
From the "Secularist of the Year" and gay rights militant Peter Tatchell who said:
"it is time society acknowledged the truth that not all sex involving children is unwanted, abusive and harmful."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1311193/PETER-HITCHENS-Question-Who-said-Not-sex-involving-children-unwanted-abusive-Answer-The-Popes-biggest-British-critic.html
Though it most likely comes from the ancient tribal structures that co-exist in Yemen.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM
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