ISIS are pure evil.

Defender OF Faith

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

i just quoted you, and you first mentioned it...
all i can read is context this and context that, some scholars this and some scholars that.

I haven't replayed to your earlier post because it didn't really need an answer because no where in the verse/hadith you mentioned does it say "You can rape your slave" and if you cant see that when its plan and simple there is no hope then when trying to explain it in depth

nokia69

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I haven't replayed to your earlier post because it didn't really need an answer because no where in the verse/hadith you mentioned does it say "You can rape your slave" and if you cant see that when its plan and simple there is no hope then when trying to explain it in depth

yes it does, slavery and rape are allowed in islam, this is just a simple fact

muhammed and all his early followers owned slaves and no doubt they raped them too

all your lies and bull**** can't change the basic facts

Nodin

nokia69 wrote: »

yes it does, slavery and rape are allowed in islam, this is just a simple fact

.........

The vast majority don't practice either, so there seems to be a hole in your plot.

Defender OF Faith

nokia69 wrote: »

yes it does, slavery and rape are allowed in islam, this is just a simple fact

muhammed and all his early followers owned slaves and no doubt they raped them too

all your lies and bull**** can't change the basic facts

"Hold to forgiveness; command what is right; But turn away from the ignorant." (7/199) And from all that you posted so far your nothing but an Ignorant individual Now unless you can formulate a constructive argument and write coherently free from Insults and ambiguity backing your points with evidence yours words are nothing but fly that need to be ignored

nokia69

Nodin wrote: »

The vast majority don't practice either, so there seems to be a hole in your plot.

I never claimed the vast majority practice anything

I just said it was permitted, thats all

I notice you never said I was wrong

Nodin

nokia69 wrote: »

I never claimed the vast majority practice anything

I just said it was permitted, thats all

I notice you never said I was wrong

If it's permitted, then why don't the vast majority practice it?

Roger Hassenforder

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I haven't replayed to your earlier post because it didn't really need an answer because no where in the verse/hadith you mentioned does it say "You can rape your slave" and if you cant see that when its plan and simple there is no hope then when trying to explain it in depth

It doesn't specifically say you can. It doesn't specifically say you cant.
it says what it says; that who you can have sex with, including slaves.
Sure the slave was there of their own free will.
sure lets just leave it there and move on. we both know what it means...

Roger Hassenforder

Nodin wrote: »

If it's permitted, then why don't the vast majority practice it?

maybe they do?
maybe they know its unacceptable to most people.
http://womanstats.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia/

i dont have all the answers though...

Defender OF Faith

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It doesn't specifically say you can. It doesn't specifically say you cant.
it says what it says; that who you can have sex with, including slaves.
Sure the slave was there of their own free will.
sure lets just leave it there and move on. we both know what it means...

Just because something is not specifically said it doesn't mean you can do it this is were you will need to go and do your own study regarding the verse by looking at the books of Tafsir or asking a scholar/Imam of a mosque as me simply explaining it here will make you gloss over it and move on to something different

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

maybe they do?
maybe they know its unacceptable to most people.
[<50 post check original comment for link]
i dont have all the answers though...

You might want to follow a more credible source that actually specialise in collecting and handling statistical date free from objectivity rather then a subjective blog that has its own statistics to fits it purpose,
there is no recent statistic done on this with the oldest dating back to 1988 standing at 21.9 rapes per 100,000 population compared to the US of 37 per 100,000 population
When comparing crime rates however Saudi arabia has one of the lowest crime rates globally at 33.16 according to the Crime Index 2014 Mid Year compared to the US 50.15

wretcheddomain

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I will let this Verse answer your question:

"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise {Muhkamat} - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific {Mutashabihat }. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah. But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding." (3/7)

Amazingly, that quote does answer my question, particularly the bolded part. :rolleyes:

In summary, Allah did provide us with a theological jigsaw book and hoped to convert the rest of the world accordingly. Great plan I must say, just a pity his plan has failed...does this make Allah a failure?

Fratton Fred

nokia69 wrote: »

yes it does, slavery and rape are allowed in islam, this is just a simple fact

muhammed and all his early followers owned slaves and no doubt they raped them too

all your lies and bull**** can't change the basic facts

Which makes Islam no different to Christianity.

Defender OF Faith

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Amazingly, that quote does answer my question, particularly the bolded part. :rolleyes:

In summary, Allah did provide us with a theological jigsaw book and hoped to convert the rest of the world accordingly. Great plan I must say, just a pity his plan has failed...does this make Allah a failure?

Highlighting is a powerful tool

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I will let this Verse answer your question:


"Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa.
They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted.

(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired..

(So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation) meaning, those who are misguided and deviate from truth to falsehood (they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof) meaning, they refer to the Mutashabih, because they are able to alter its meanings to conform with their false interpretation since the wordings of the Mutashabihat encompass such a wide area of meanings. As for the Muhkam Ayat, they cannot be altered because they are clear

Its narrated by Ibn `Abbas, "Tafsir/Interpretation is of four types: Interpretation that the Arabs know in their language; Interpretation that no one is excused of being ignorant of; Interpretation that the scholars know; and Interpretation that only Allah knows.''

From Tafsir Ibn Kathir chapter 3 verse 7

Looks differently now doesn't it? you should of said you were not interested in an answer but were simply beating around the bush instead of me wasting my time trying to explain it only for you to disregard the entire explanation and look only to what fits in your narrow mind

Roger Hassenforder

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Highlighting is a powerful tool...
etc.

From your posts, I believe you're a learned man (while presumptuous, I doubt i'm wrong) in your field, and presumably wouldn't be regarded as fool by your fellows.

After your suggestion that i consult these tafsir things, I had a, albeit, quick look. Some seem to be Sunni, some Shia, some Sufi, some philosophy. Some modern, although most seem old. I'm none the wiser though, as there's a serious whiff of "he said, but really meant to say is that this or that is or isn't permissible, when the cows are lying down and there's a harvest moon". In fairness, there's some good stuff, but in my opinion, mainly nonsense.

The problem for an infidel like myself, is that Muslims are committing despicable acts in several corners of the world. Acts heinous by most standards, perpetrated by Muslims ostensibly in the name of their god Allah, against other (mainly)Muslims, Christians, Jews, infidels etc.
So your suggestion that i educate myself and visit a mosque to talk to other Muslims about how those other Muslims are wrong, and that this version is the true Islam isn't exactly inspiring .

I have no more intention of visiting a mosque to inquire about some madey up nonsense, from practitioners of this same madey up nonsense to see if I've got it wrong, as I have of visiting a christian church to inquire about their version of the madey up nonsense.

But when this madey up nonsense manifests itself as it is doing, whether its out of context or not, or a misinterpretation of the Koran is irrelevant. Terrible things are being done in the name of Islam. In fact, terrible things are done in the name of most religions, although most of these don't demand the head of anyone criticizing or poking fun at it.

To me, Islam is homophobic, misogynistic, hateful, barbaric, backward, and anti semitic, and some of whose practitioners are doing nothing to discourage this view. With all barrels there are a few bad apples. These apples have spoiled the contents of the barrel completely.

Overflow

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Defender OF Faith

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

From your posts, I believe you're a learned man (while presumptuous, I doubt i'm wrong) in your field, and presumably wouldn't be regarded as fool by your fellows.

After your suggestion that i consult these tafsir things, I had a, albeit, quick look. Some seem to be Sunni, some Shia, some Sufi, some philosophy. Some modern, although most seem old. I'm none the wiser though, as there's a serious whiff of "he said, but really meant to say is that this or that is or isn't permissible, when the cows are lying down and there's a harvest moon". In fairness, there's some good stuff, but in my opinion, mainly nonsense.

The problem for an infidel like myself, is that Muslims are committing despicable acts in several corners of the world. Acts heinous by most standards, perpetrated by Muslims ostensibly in the name of their god Allah, against other (mainly)Muslims, Christians, Jews, infidels etc.
So your suggestion that i educate myself and visit a mosque to talk to other Muslims about how those other Muslims are wrong, and that this version is the true Islam isn't exactly inspiring .

I have no more intention of visiting a mosque to inquire about some madey up nonsense, from practitioners of this same madey up nonsense to see if I've got it wrong, as I have of visiting a christian church to inquire about their version of the madey up nonsense.

But when this madey up nonsense manifests itself as it is doing, whether its out of context or not, or a misinterpretation of the Koran is irrelevant. Terrible things are being done in the name of Islam. In fact, terrible things are done in the name of most religions, although most of these don't demand the head of anyone criticizing or poking fun at it.

To me, Islam is homophobic, misogynistic, hateful, barbaric, backward, and anti semitic, and some of whose practitioners are doing nothing to discourage this view. With all barrels there are a few bad apples. These apples have spoiled the contents of the barrel completely.

You shouldn't call your self an "infidel" as an infidel is someone adhering to a religion/belief other than that of the majority and while the number of Muslims are more then a billion they are not a majority religion, However my suggestion for you to visit a mosque was for you to see that Muslims are not what you see,hear or read about them it was rather to encourage you see Muslims and learn at the same time however if Islam really does fit all these Adjectives you mentioned why is it still the fastest growing religion world wide? with numbers set to double according to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life the number of Muslims in the world is set to double 2.2 billion in 2030 and according to the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion by the number of conversions each year not only reproduction with approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity

The question is why would all these people be following and converting to a "homophobic, misogynistic, hateful, barbaric, backward, and anti semitic" as you say?

Roger Hassenforder

Ive no idea.
Christianity needs to up its game!

Fallschirmjager

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

You shouldn't call your self an "infidel" as an infidel is someone adhering to a religion/belief other than that of the majority and while the number of Muslims are more then a billion they are not a majority religion, However my suggestion for you to visit a mosque was for you to see that Muslims are not what you see,hear or read about them it was rather to encourage you see Muslims and learn at the same time however if Islam really does fit all these Adjectives you mentioned why is it still the fastest growing religion world wide? with numbers set to double according to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life the number of Muslims in the world is set to double 2.2 billion in 2030 and according to the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion by the number of conversions each year not only reproduction with approximately 12.5 million more people converted to Islam than to Christianity

The question is why would all these people be following and converting to a "homophobic, misogynistic, hateful, barbaric, backward, and anti semitic" as you say?

Wow, that's very interesting. So if islam is the majority then what happens , he can call himself an infidel, or more importantly, will you be calling him one?

As for islam as the fastest growing religion. As always there is statistics and statistics. The reason for islam becoming so large is the massive drop off in Christianity in Western Europe and the US. Strangely this drop off has been at the same time as an increase in personal wealth. Interesting don't you think? Could you tell me which religion has grown by 37% in Africa? I will give you a Hint, it isn't islam. The islam growth is a meme and used as a weapon to instil fear and control, unfortunately by all sides. There is an obvious huge anti Christianity push in Western Europe which is funny as it is responsible for the very growth in knowledge and wealth that is leading to its demise.

It's also interesting that something Can't be hateful, barbaric, misogynistic, and anti Semitic etc simply because a lot of people are joining it? Really? Let's look at history shall we?
Slavery was adopted all over the world and was in many countries backed by religion? Before you charge off and saying christianity did that, could you explain who also prospered from delivering slaves to western slavers in Europe? Is that correct simply because it's accepted? How about the treatment of women and children as mere chattel? Is that okay because people accepted it?

I could go on, but I think you get the point. Generally a rule of thumb and a great de motivational poster by the way is 'never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups'. The reality is the very religion that was driving slavery in Western Europe was responsible for its downfall, and it didn't come from islam.

I am curious, can you explain in clear English, aka , is the koran the written word of god? A yes or no would be perfect. I mean it either is or isn't the written word is it not?

If that is the case, and it is the written word of god, can you transcribe for me the following passages?

Koran 2:223 and 2:282 an interesting view on women, I think we shall agree
Koran 9:3 interesting view on contractual law god has there
Koran 16:106 Interesting view on telling the truth
I could go on, but this isn't really the point to an after hours thread is it? Also you will see now, the PC brigade have everyone so afraid to say anything to anyone, except christianity, which I find also very interesting.

The reality is isis are using islam and like it or not like, islam is not clear there is a problem. I mean it is, is it not, okay to behead an infidel? Which is what Isis are doing to shia, Christians in this wonderful new entity they have created. I am curious where are the Islamic countries Of the Middle East are on engaging in bombing of Isis positions? Where are the Saudi fighters and no I don't mean the many who have joined Isis. I find the total lack of public displays very interesting. Where is the giant anti-Isis marches in London, Paris, Berlin, after all you are the fastest growing religion, are you not? I mean where are the same size marches against Isis as there were against the Iraq war, the Vietnam war etc etc. I am not interested in 25 people standing in the street before you link to that in Dublin.

The horrible reality is Isis are creating something that they can find justification for in their branch of islam. Also I am curious, what branch of Islam are you from? Your name is defender of the faith, which branch are you defending?

Gatling

Sad to hear British hostage alan henning has been beheaded

Rip Alan Henning

Nodin

Another blameless lad. Dirty shower.

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

Another blameless lad. Dirty shower.

The sad thing its believed somebody who travelled with him in the aid convoy from the uk had him marked to be grabbed

Ahhhhh its grand

RIP Alan Henning

How anyone can do that do another human being is beyond me. It actually beggars belief. But this is coming from a sane person.

Nodin

Gatling wrote: »

The sad thing its believed somebody who travelled with him in the aid convoy from the uk had him marked to be grabbed

Another one that needs to be shot then. He was deliverin aid FFS.

BlaasForRafa

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Wow, that's very interesting. So if islam is the majority then what happens , he can call himself an infidel, or more importantly, will you be calling him one?

Nah, Kuffar is the usual term I believe.

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

There is an obvious huge anti Christianity push in Western Europe which is funny as it is responsible for the very growth in knowledge and wealth that is leading to its demise.

Nah, I'd disagree with that. It was after the extreme versions of christianity in Europe had exhausted themselves during the 30 years war and the English Civil war that European nations really started to streak ahead of the rest of the world in terms of knowledge and wealth with the enlightenment.

Islam is in dire need of a reformation and enlightenment but it's rather difficult for moderates to come through while nutters like Isis exist which is why they need to be crushed.

opinionated3

RIP mr henning. I honestly believe though however that air power alone is not going to be enough against these evil Islamic bastards. Will have to put Western boots on the ground eventually I'm afraid.

Aidric

Gatling wrote: »

Sad to hear British hostage alan henning has been beheaded

Rip Alan Henning

Disgusting development. From the brief videos I saw of the guy on a recent Channel 4 report he seemed like a genuine, kind and innocent soul. RIP.

onlyme!

American, peter kassig is next!

Why always me

Ahh these crowd of animals deserve to be nuked. iv a feeling these crowd have now gone so far. There will be no world wide outcry when there bombed into submission. Dont ya just love religion

Gatling

Their trying tom gaod the states and britian into a land war ,

Dont think its working so far ,

They'll have to resort to some spectacular act of terrorism to get troops on the ground

Lithium93_

There will be American & British troops on the ground by years end, MARK MY WORDS....

Gatling

Lithium93_ wrote: »

There will be American & British troops on the ground by years end, MARK MY WORDS....

Highly doubt it .

Its a powder keg that wont be lit ,

Uk and US troops hit the ground they will spend more time bogged down by another civil war befoe they get to fight isis