ISIS are pure evil.

kryogen

Drakares wrote: »

Christians aren't going around murdering thousands of people, raping women and kids, and beheading aid workers on video in the name of Christianity, so your argument is.. pretty stupid.

Really? Christians do not and have never, murdered people, millions of people never mind thousands, raped women and kids and mutilated people in the name of Christianity?

Seriously?

Some people have a pretty weird grasp on history and reality.

Gatling

kryogen wrote: »

Really? Christians do not and have never, murdered people, millions of people never mind thousands, raped women and kids and mutilated people in the name of Christianity?

Seriously?

Some people have a pretty weird grasp on history and reality.

The problem is Christians have moved on in the last 2000 years .
Where as some sections of the Islamic world have stayed in biblical times .

Gringo180

kryogen wrote: »

Really? Christians do not and have never, murdered people, millions of people never mind thousands, raped women and kids and mutilated people in the name of Christianity?

Seriously?

Some people have a pretty weird grasp on history and reality.

You only have to go back a few years to the Iraq war where there was over a million people murdered by christians, illegally.

Gatling

Gringo180 wrote: »

You only have to go back a few years to the Iraq war where there was over a million people murdered by christians, illegally.

Which Christian's were these

Lapin

Time for a media blackout on these killings to stop giving these muslim monsters the oxygen of publicity they crave.

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

Where as some sections of the Islamic world have stayed in biblical times .

Leave them to it, its none of the Wests business. If we weren't too busy imposing gastly dictators, invading and trying to install democracy onto a religous people we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place.

Gringo180

Gatling wrote: »

Which Christian's were these

Bush and Blair.

kryogen

Gatling wrote: »

The problem is Christians have moved on in the last 2000 years .
Where as some sections of the Islamic world have stayed in biblical times .

99% of Christians have moved on, 99% of Muslims are no different, they live their lives the same as you and me, they want peace, they want to raise their families, they want to enjoy their lives.

There are still radicals in Christianity, as there are in Judaism and Islam.

It doesn't make the entire religion, or its followers any worse then the rest of the worlds population.

People are essentially people wherever you go in the world, they want the same things for the most part.

Scumbags are going to be scumbags and religion has been used as a justification for a hell of a lot of destruction and death since the dawn of time. All religion.

crockholm

kryogen wrote: »

99% of Christians have moved on, 99% of Muslims are no different, they live their lives the same as you and me, they want peace, they want to raise their families, they want to enjoy their lives.

There are still radicals in Christianity, as there are in Judaism and Islam.

It doesn't make the entire religion, or its followers any worse then the rest of the worlds population.

People are essentially people wherever you go in the world, they want the same things for the most part.

Scumbags are going to be scumbags and religion has been used as a justification for a hell of a lot of destruction and death since the dawn of time. All religion.

I would like to Believe this,but,given that there are nearly equal numbers of christians and muslims in the world today(more christians at the present) and if both religions supporters are 99% decent law-abiding and moderate then why are there not equal numbers of christian Groups around the World wanting to carve out theocracies and using violent methods to achieve their goals?

kryogen

crockholm wrote: »

I would like to Believe this,but,given that there are nearly equal numbers of christians and muslims in the world today(more christians at the present) and if both religions supporters are 99% decent law-abiding and moderate then why are there not equal numbers of christian Groups around the World wanting to carve out theocracies and using violent methods to achieve their goals?

For argument sake, taking what you say to be true right now.

The simplest answer I can give you is, timing.

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

The problem is Christians have moved on in the last 2000 years .
Where as some sections of the Islamic world have stayed in biblical times .

Wasn’t there a church burnt down i Donegal only the other day by some "Christian terrorist" because it was the wrong version of Christianity, Christians have the same issue it appears.

crockholm

kryogen wrote: »

For argument sake, taking what you say to be true right now.

The simplest answer I can give you is, timing.

So by using your answer-how many years into the future will we see equal numbers of christians joining christianist Groups promoting theocracies by violent means?

kryogen

crockholm wrote: »

So by using your answer-how many years into the future will we see equal numbers of christians joining christianist Groups promoting theocracies by violent means?

Have you done figures for the premise? Do you know exactly (or even roughly) how many Christians there are joining Christian groups who are committing acts of violence in the name of their religion? Or can it be that you actually hold the opinion that there are no Christians committing such acts anymore?

Anyway, you would hope that it would in fact go the opposite way, you would hope that over time the more radical elements of the Islamic religion will be diluted and integrated into the mainstream, like I believe it has mostly been the case in Christianity.

To go along with the premise, I think in the next 50 years we could see the more radical elements of Christianity coming to the fore if things keep going the way they are. A lot will depend on the coming decade, in how the West treats Islamic nations and vice versa, continuing to fuel the fires (on either side) is only going to produce more people willing to pick up arms and kill for their cause.

crockholm

kryogen wrote: »

Have you done figures for the premise? Do you know exactly (or even roughly) how many Christians there are joining Christian groups who are committing acts of violence in the name of their religion? Or can it be that you actually hold the opinion that there are no Christians committing such acts anymore?

Anyway, you would hope that it would in fact go the opposite way, you would hope that over time the more radical elements of the Islamic religion will be diluted and integrated into the mainstream, like I believe it has mostly been the case in Christianity.

To go along with the premise, I think in the next 50 years we could see the more radical elements of Christianity coming to the fore if things keep going the way they are. A lot will depend on the coming decade, in how the West treats Islamic nations and vice versa, continuing to fuel the fires (on either side) is only going to produce more people willing to pick up arms and kill for their cause.

About the only christian terrorist Group Active today that I know of are the LRA,whereas there are many more Active islamisist Groups operating in the World today.

As for your theory on the truimph of modernity,one need only look at news footage from the levant and further east taken in the 1970s-it is a scene that could well have been a Southern european nation,women in western clothing mostly without headdressing.

The creeping tide of a stricter islam have now largely banished such scenarios.

Of course it is a personal opinion,but,I see the more fundamentalist strains of Islam gaining more traction with the muslim Community-a sort of regression/return to purer times

Two Tone from Limehouse

kryogen wrote: »

Really? Christians do not and have never, murdered people, millions of people never mind thousands, raped women and kids and mutilated people in the name of Christianity?

Seriously?

Some people have a pretty weird grasp on history and reality.

We are talking about the present. So what if Christians did wrong? It's the past. They (Islamists)hate us all, and in my opinion there are not enough Muslims condemning them. Our western way if life is being impeded Take a look at London's east end. In my opinion it's a case if Us ( west) versus them( Islamists) . Nuke em all

Ps how does Khalid Kelly get away with some of the the stuff he says?

Two Tone from Limehouse

And the Burkha / Niquab needs to be banned.

kryogen

To accept that would be to ignore the Islamic nations who are moving toward more moderate ways though. There are more then one Christian group in the world who commits acts of violence I am sure you will agree even if you don't know them off the top of your head?

The media coverage is huge on these kind of groups (Islamic extremists) for various reasons, and I understand it scares people but it does not make it a fair reflection of Islam or what the Muslim community as a group wants.

There are fundamentalist Christians who choose to live their live's in a way that baffles me, the same with Mormons and some other sects of Christianity. There will naturally be fundamental Islamic sects who will want to live in a way that baffles us also.

The growing tide actually continues to be a move toward the moderate and the liberal, in general in the Muslim population, they don't make as much noise as the fundamentals though, again that goes for both sides of the divide, in the US if you are not Christian, and a good one at that, there is not a hope in hell you will be getting elected President. The religious right, (yes, fundamental/extremist Christians) have a hell of a lot of power over there. George Bush was told by God that what he was doing was right, is that a less insane, or scary prospect then Islamic leaders who profess the same belief? Did he and his followers not kill innocents in the name of doing the Lords work?

There is a video here, based on a poll done by Gallup.com

http://www.gallup.com/press/110521/Moderate-vs-Extremist-Views-Muslim-World.aspx

You may find that interesting?


Couple of quotes regarding some misconceptions about Islam

Most Muslims are moderate, pious, nonviolent people who are trying to honor God in their lives. Muslim scholars who study the Qur’an explain Islam as a religion of peace, and most Muslims see Islam as a religion of peace as well, preferring to let others live as they wish. The media has sensationalized the views of a small percentage of violent extremists as the legitimate understanding of Islam as a community seeking global domination by force.

The Muslim community worldwide places a high value on family life. Generations of a family live together, often in the same household. Elderly family members are cared for in this environment; this is viewed as an honor, not a burden. It would be shameful to put them in assisted living or retirement homes. Children are included in all areas of life and usually the center of all family gatherings.

Most of the oppression of women by Islam and Muslims that is highly publicized is usually due to local customs and traditions. Muslim women have been presidents and prime ministers. Violence towards women and forcing them against their will is not permitted by Islam. Care for widows, orphans, and the poor is one of Islam’s strongest teachings. Unfortunately, many women are oppressed, However, this is a global issue and not just Islamic oppression. Prevalence of abuse of women is not higher among Muslims than among non-Muslims.

The vast majority of Muslims are moderate, pious people who suffer more from terrorism and violence than non-Muslims. Ninety-three percent of Muslims do not support extremist views of terrorism.

We need to get past the religion and see the scum for what they are, scum. They use religion as a banner to carry out their hate filled acts but the religion itself and its followers should not all be tarred and thrown in with them. These people, some impressionable youths disaffected and led astray, some psychopaths, some who just want to belong, could easily be members of the KKK, or a neo Nazi group if they were born in a different geographical location.

kryogen

Two Tone from Limehouse wrote: »

We are talking about the present. So what if Christians did wrong? It's the past. They (Islamists)hate us all, and in my opinion there are not enough Muslims condemning them. Our western way if life is being impeded Take a look at London's east end. In my opinion it's a case if Us ( west) versus them( Islamists) . Nuke em all

Ps how does Khalid Kelly get away with some of the the stuff he says?

They do not hate us all. There are plenty of Muslims condemning the extremist actions.

Do you consider yourself to be a racist or a religious bigot? Or both?
Do you think you can claim any moral high ground or superiority by simply saying nuke em all? You think your stance of nuke the lot of them, men, women and even children who have done nothing wrong a just one to take?

Unfortunately there are lots of people with the same thought process as yourself and it has helped to get us to where we are today. Christians did wrong only in the past is a pretty strange opinion to hold.

There is no us against them West vs Islam, there is an us against them in terms of peace loving and co operative and terrorising and division. You do not fall on to the peaceful, co operative side of the equation though going from what you say, you actually have more in common with the intolerant animals that you would like to wipe out,( along with anybody else who happens to be that religion)

kryogen

I'm off to bed but I will counter the Khalid Kelly question by saying, I have no interest in him. He is just another criminal to me and I could care less what he has to say.

Like someone asking you, how does Fred Phelps get away with saying the things he says. Woodsboro Baptist Church, great bunch of lads aren't they. Ok the SOB is dead now, but you get his daughter spouting the same ****e, in the great scheme of things who gives a **** what she has to say either?

WakeUp

poor Alan these jihadi phuckers truly are wicked. the west needs to make a deal with Assad. this idea of a vetted opposition or whatever in Syria opposing Assad at this stage is just absurd so just forget about it. because whatever moderate forces were opposing Assad in the first place are pretty much gone.and whats lets are just a nuisance. nut cases abound now. so make a deal with Assad. and sort out differences with the Russians bring them in too. without Syria/Iran and Russia this lot are going to be hard to dislodge and defeat. the Syrian army and Hezbollah/Iranian troops are the most effective forces fighting the jihadis on the ground at the moment. the fsa or rebels or whatever they call themselves these days are just getting in the way at this stage. they need to be taken out of the picture so Assad/Hezbollah forces dont need to be bothering with them anymore and can focus on the jihadis. so make a deal with Assad. realpolitik should kick in now. put differences aside and focus on a shared foe.

jank

Gringo180 wrote: »

Leave them to it, its none of the Wests business. If we weren't too busy imposing gastly dictators, invading and trying to install democracy onto a religous people we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place.

Possibly true, but it is utterly naive to a) think that if the west had hands off policy for the past 100 years that the middle east would be peaceful and b) cast no blame to the Ottoman empire that ruled over the same region for the best part of 500 years, lastly c) that no blame is taken on by the very people of the middle east.

People didn't want the west to get involved in Syria, they didn't by any major extent. Now ISIS has taken hold people want them to get involved.
The Arab Spring was a type of decoupling of power by the Americans from doing deals with Arab dictators like Gaddafi, Mubarak and Saddam in the past. They held sway and things were kinda stable. The US were criticised for this. Fine. Now those strong hands are gone the whole place is on a knife edge and basically one big cluster ****. Yet, people still blame the US and the West. Blame is easy, finding solutions and doing something pragmatic is entirely something else and notably absent from the west's biggest detractors like the Irish anti war/west alliance.

LorMal

Deleted User wrote: »

The fúckers with the knives are the problem, but the inconvenient truth is that some of them appear to have been raised in western countries.

The next question is how do you stop them without major military force, which would probably mean more death and "western islamists" recruitment will escalate, increasing the risks of some randomer doing a copycat beheading on a random stranger in a random European city.

You don't stop them without major and overwhelming military action. The fact that they might retaliate does not condone inaction.
This is happening because they think they can get away with it. We need to prove otherwise.

LorMal

Gringo180 wrote: »

Leave them to it, its none of the Wests business. If we weren't too busy imposing gastly dictators, invading and trying to install democracy onto a religous people we wouldnt be in this mess in the first place.

Don't be such an eejit. British, French and American aid workers, journalists and tourists getting their heads cut off by British Muslims is definitely the 'Wests business'.
Stop blaming the West for these murders - its what these ****ers want- hence the propaganda videos before each beheading.
You know who is to blame? The ****ers with the knives. No one else!!!!

P_1

One thing that I can't understand is why the victims of these beheadings read out those statements condemming the west before those animals behead them. If you're going to die would your last message not be one condemming the barbarians who are about to chop your head off?

LorMal

P_1 wrote: »

One thing that I can't understand is why the victims of these beheadings read out those statements condemming the west before those animals behead them. If you're going to die would your last message not be one condemming the barbarians who are about to chop your head off?

We can't see what is happening off screen.

Sunnyisland

P_1 wrote: »

One thing that I can't understand is why the victims of these beheadings read out those statements condemming the west before those animals behead them. If you're going to die would your last message not be one condemming the barbarians who are about to chop your head off?

As far as I recall,The unfortunate hostages are given mild calming drugs before there execution and also if you thought there was a small bit of light in being set free by condemning the west anyone would say what there asked.

Einhard

nokia69 wrote: »

ISIS have the support of millions of muslims in the middle east and plenty of muslims in the west

I'm sure you can provide figures for that? Or at least live in the Middle East? Because you're surely not pulling nonsense out of your ar*e now are you?

Besides the fact that Muslims are the primary victim of IS' murderous rampage, I do happen to live in the Middle East, have many Muslim friends, and have yet to hear anyone express any support for their actions. Indeed, considering that many of these friends have most to lose from a threat which is on their doorstep, they're actually quite frightened of IS, and want them stopped as quickly as possible.

Now, that's not to say thatsome Muslims support IS, but to pluck figures in the millions from the air is pure BS and only exposes your own dodgy views and prejudices.

DLMA23

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Shocking act. I thought if they would let anyone go it would be Alan Henning who went out of his way to help the Muslim people and seemed to have many Muslim friends. I expect widespread condemnation from Muslims worlwide and here in the Irish Muslim community.

Another good man murdered by these scumbags. RIP Alan.

In the Quraan, it says that muslims can not take the Kuffaar (disbelievers) as Awliyaa (friends, protectors, helpers)...

Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends & has issued a stern warning against doing that.

Allaah says...

“O you who believe!

Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’, they are but Awliyaa’ of each other & if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’),

then surely, he is one of them."

In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes Jews & Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends.

Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah & his eternal punishment & that if the one who

takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends.

Allaah says...

“You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’.

Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them,

for that reason Allaah’s wrath fell upon them & in torment they will

abide.

And had they believed in Allaah & in the Prophet (Muhammad) & in

what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them

(the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’, but many of them are the Faasiqoon

(rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)

smurgen

Can't believe they done that to Alan Henning.poor fella looked like a really decent person.Nice people really seem to get ****ed over in this world,it's distressing.

asteroids over berlin

DLMA23 wrote: »

In the Quraan, it says that muslims can not take the Kuffaar (disbelievers) as Awliyaa (friends, protectors, helpers)...

Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends & has issued a stern warning against doing that.

Allaah says...

“O you who believe!

Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’, they are but Awliyaa’ of each other & if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’),

then surely, he is one of them."

In this verse Allaah tells us that whoever takes Jews & Christians as friends is one of them because of his taking them as friends.

Elsewhere Allaah states that taking them as friends incurs the wrath of Allaah & his eternal punishment & that if the one who

takes them as friends was a true believer he would not have taken them as friends.

Allaah says...

“You see many of them taking the disbelievers as their Awliyaa’.

Evil indeed is that which their ownselves have sent forward before them,

for that reason Allaah’s wrath fell upon them & in torment they will

abide.

And had they believed in Allaah & in the Prophet (Muhammad) & in

what has been revealed to him, never would they have taken them

(the disbelievers) as Awliyaa’, but many of them are the Faasiqoon

(rebellious, disobedient to Allaah)

Jaysus Allaah and Muhammad were unfriendly twats!