ISIS are pure evil.

Qualitymark

And while the countries that used to be the wealthy West are spending fortunes killing and bombing and murdering Arabs, China and India are working hard and getting rich.

ivytwine

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I had to make it clear since you spoke with certainty that both of which were not mentioned in the bible the way you spoke about religion though indicate that your not a Christian so I cant blame you for your lack of knowledge.

Eating swine:
Deuteronomy 14:8/Leviticus 11:7-8
"The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses."
Ironically since you mentioned its forbidden in both Judaism and Islam for food hygiene reasons its also forbidden in Christianity as you see for the same reason.

Drinking Wine:
Leviticus 10:9
""You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the tent of meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come,"
A similar massage is repeated in
Ephesians 5:18
"Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,"
Luke 1:15,Proverbs 20:1,Isaiah 28:

You are completely wrong. I was raised a Catholic. Christians eat pig meat all the time, and a big part of Catholic mass is the priest having a fine old swig of wine for himself.

You are also evidently not a Christian, seeing as the New Testament supersedes the Old and you seem somewhat ignorant of that.

Defender OF Faith

ivytwine wrote: »

You are completely wrong. I was raised a Catholic. Christians eat pig meat all the time, and a big part of Catholic mass is the priest having a fine old swig of wine for himself.

You are also evidently not a Christian, seeing as the New Testament supersedes the Old and you seem somewhat ignorant of that.

Ok I don't think it would be appropriate to replay in such a thread and turn it into a biblical study discussion instead instead I will pm you my replay, and no am not a Christian but am a student of comparative religion and its funny how you disregard the old testaments though you Christians except a few minorities are just like the Quran describes you to be:
"So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life." {2/85}

These laws of the old testament were put by Jesus himself (assuming that Jesus is GOD himself as Christians believe). and if that would be ok, then wouldn't that all be a contradiction to what Jesus wants since he is the one who inspired the Old Testament?

Mark Tapley

Thinking about previous editions of the bible. I have decided to publish the Mark Tapley edition of the Bible and the Koran.I am going to amalgamate the two books, call it Korible. Inside it will say , please disregard all previous editions , there are no gods.
Please don't be dicks.

Roger Hassenforder

Mark Tapley wrote: »

Thinking about previous editions of the bible. I have decided to publish the Mark Tapley edition of the Bible and the Koran.I am going to amalgamate the two books, call it Korible. Inside it will say , please disregard all previous editions , there are no gods.
Please don't be dicks.

off with Mark Tapley's head; forsooth if should be the iblekor

Fallschirmjager

DK man wrote: »

It's illogical and dishonest of the leftie liberals who try to attach some sort of randomness to Islamic terror - we who are very critical of Islam are called racist and islamophobic. The random theory - the attempt to argue unconnected relationship with Islam and terror can no longer be presented by anyone with any common sense. We don't have the same random terrorist in Christianity / Judaism / budaism etc. but we do have many connected terrorist groups that are spawned and fed by Islamic thinking and the Koran - Islam is a dangerous ideology that has real potential to destroy the world we live in - we in the civilised world need to stop pandering to Islam and here in Ireland we are facilitating a monolithic mosque to feed more of this rancid pseudo religious / ideology

For anyone who cares to check, Islamic terror is not new and it's not new to America or Europe . Their very first president, second and third and fourth dealt with it under an older name, the Barbary pirates. In fact in 1786, Thomas Jefferson, then ambassador to France and john Adams, ambassador to England met with the ambassador of Tripoli. They wanted as a new nation to do commerce freely and also get back the hundreds of detained US sailors in horrible conditions in tripoli prisons, taken by the Pirates. A considerable number were sold into slavery. The ambassador of tripoli response will sound familiar And is in official documents reported to the US congress. I quote

that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (old word for Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.
That's a quote from Ambassador Adja from tripoli, 1786

So what you have here is something revealing. There was no oil, there was no American president apparently bent on an Iraq invasion, there was no Israel but there was terror. So next time you hear it was oil or Iraq or U.S. troops somewhere or other inflaming The Islamic street, the above conversation happened 205 years before the gulf war, 160 odd years before Israel existed and 50 or so years before oil was first used as we understand it today. incidentally, the budget for congress for all of America was about 6 million dollars and about 900,000 dollars was offered per year to trade freely as a bribe. It was rejected. This piracy had been going on since the 1500's with well over 1 million sailors taken into slavery to be sold back home, if lucky or into slavery if the weren't or the favoured tactic of forced conversion.

Another factoid is the Barbary pirates led to the development of a group still used in these wars, namely the U.S. Marines. Next time you see a marine in his dress blues, his sword is based on a sword presented to their commander after their first assault and first victory, it's actually part of the marine song, '..from the halls of montezuma .to the shores of tripoli'. What's also interesting is it led to the creation of the U.S. Navy and it was America warships that bombarded the city before the Pirates stopped attacks on U.S. shipping. It led to the Brits doing the same with the Dutch to let their ships trade and finally even the French had enough by 1815 and invaded taking Algiers and making it a French colony to stop the attacks. Also for the revisionists out there and before you start to blame the crusades (actually amazed someone hasn't brought it up) you might also want to check what led to the crusades...it's not Pope Urban 2 as most liberals historians would like you to believe but rather in response to the invasion by Islamic forces and the taxing and threats to Christian churches and visitors to the tomb of Christ. So the first crusade is actually the second, the first being the initial invasion by Islamic forces. Listen carefully and you will hear heads exploding en masse with that comment...

gw80

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

True. I think 'Islamism' is in fact the opposite of Islam and is an atheist movement. 'Islamists' are atheist opportunists who actually note how religious their populance are and then can see that 'I can control these people with repressive laws and pass it off as gods law!'. That's what 'Islamism' is. It is used then as a stepping stone for gaining power.

Ayatollah Khomeini was credited as one of the first to create a state dictatorship based on 'Islam'. In fact, Khomeini had a depression condition and suffered a mental breakdown after his son's death in the 1970s and had long questioned his love for god. He was a qualified priest but had become disillusioned with that years ago and by 1979 was ready to front for the military junta that took over Iran and helped them out by spouting warped Islam as a means of them consolidating power. And ever since, we have seen much much worse forms of 'Islamism' take root: Taliban, al Qaeda, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, ISIS, etc.

so atheists are to blame,I suppose its all part of the illuminatis big plan for a new world order.

you were right about one thing, its all about fear, your fear, and defender of the faiths fear, fear of death,fear of the unknown, fear of yourself ultimatley

wendell borton

In a region not know for much respect being given to women the female Kurdish fighters are quite remarkable, ISIS fighters also believe they wont get into heaven if they killed by them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_0kg8VlxkE

Mark Tapley

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

off with Mark Tapley's head; forsooth if should be the iblekor

Splitter!

Richard D James

No doubt the Iraqis that the US is now arming to fight ISIS will be the themselves the enemy in a few years
The US desire to control the oil there is the main reason behind its foreign policy, and it has a huge military to back it up
Saddam was no doubt a madman but removing him has caused a million more dead than leaving him there

Roger Hassenforder

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

True. I think 'Islamism' is in fact the opposite of Islam and is an atheist movement. 'Islamists' are atheist opportunists who actually note how religious their populance are and then can see that 'I can control these people with repressive laws and pass it off as gods law!'. That's what 'Islamism' is. It is used then as a stepping stone for gaining power.

Ayatollah Khomeini was credited as one of the first to create a state dictatorship based on 'Islam'. In fact, Khomeini had a depression condition and suffered a mental breakdown after his son's death in the 1970s and had long questioned his love for god. He was a qualified priest but had become disillusioned with that years ago and by 1979 was ready to front for the military junta that took over Iran and helped them out by spouting warped Islam as a means of them consolidating power.

are you serious?
"Islamism' is in fact the opposite of Islam and is an atheist movement"
"Islamists' are atheist opportunists"...

& whats this reference for this "interesting" revisionist view of Khomeni?

Fratton Fred

Richard D James wrote: »

No doubt the Iraqis that the US is now arming to fight ISIS will be the themselves the enemy in a few years
The US desire to control the oil there is the main reason behind its foreign policy, and it has a huge military to back it up
Saddam was no doubt a madman but removing him has caused a million more dead than leaving him there

Do you honestly think Saddam would have survived the Arab spring?

Nodin

Highly unlikely. He had lost control of large parts of Iraq as it was.

Defender OF Faith

so even with the US-coalition air strikes Isis continues to make gains
"Isil jihadists make gains in Kobane, close to the Syria-Turkey border, in the face of US air strikes" ~ .telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11144783/Islamic-State-fly-black-flag-over-key-Syrian-border-town.

The only way to truly stop them would be a ground assault which I really cant see happening soon enough Isis will have all of Syria & Iraq under control

keith16

Turkey are standing idly by as the massacre goes on at their border.

Does anyone really believe that Turkey did a deal with ISIS? 46 hostages freed in return for staying out of the fight??

Fallschirmjager

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Ok I don't think it would be appropriate to replay in such a thread and turn it into a biblical study discussion instead instead I will pm you my replay, and no am not a Christian but am a student of comparative religion and its funny how you disregard the old testaments though you Christians except a few minorities are just like the Quran describes you to be:
"So do you believe in part of the Scripture and disbelieve in part? Then what is the recompense for those who do that among you except disgrace in worldly life." {2/85}

These laws of the old testament were put by Jesus himself (assuming that Jesus is GOD himself as Christians believe). and if that would be ok, then wouldn't that all be a contradiction to what Jesus wants since he is the one who inspired the Old Testament?

Wow your ignorance of Christianity is fairly stunning. The New Testament is a collection of stories about the life of Christ and his teachings. They were not written by Jesus, kinda difficult to write about your death, with a nail in your hand, at least that would be my opinion, but then again maybe another miracle we don't know about, perhaps? I realise you mentioned the Old Testament, more on that in a second. Incidentally one of the stories by Jesus warned of a fake follower who would convert many to his followings...kinda interesting that considering your name here, don't you think?

The Old Testament is based on the Jewish Talmud. Er, kinda the reason christianity exists is because it doesn't follow that otherwise we would be, you know, Jewish? Just sayin. Also this is after hours, not exactly a thread filled with Christian scholars.
Also in islam don't you also refer to these books in the Koran, so if there is an error, (let's ignore the rampant one s in the koran) well kinda sucks for you also. I mean surely God can read those books could he not? So did God change his mind between Jesus and Muhammad? Moody isn't he?
The Christian God is apparently one of forgiveness for sins, because as man, you will sin. Also you maybe interested to know man is born with free will and some rights, right to life for example, it's the whole God love thing. Free will to choose, you know things like, personal lifestyle choice. That's why you can have one segment saying christianity should accept homosexuality and another saying it should not, one with a gay bishop and some with women pastors. The payment of those choices is between you and God at the pearly gates, not a 20 year old ex rapper Islamic believer from London with a rusty blade and poor public education. So the social revolution and the freedom of women you ragged on before, is your choice, well not so much yours and here is the reason why.

It's only islam that has the word supposedly written by God and therein lies exactly the problem with islam. You have no possibility of modernisation, no way to deal with changes in the world, you are stuck. The very countries who gave us algebra, had great understandings of the universe, had street lighting way before anyone in Europe, was forced into a position where ...why do you want to know algebra...here's the book by God.

But what do I know, I'm a libertarian, so im looking at this whole discussion with either incredulous disbelief or outright sadness that in 2014, on the cusp of monumental discoveries from curing diseases to the technological singularity, and developments that will enable us to get off this rock and own the Galaxy but instead we are here with one group looking to saw heads off and rape and mutilate women, because, you know they are women and another Christian minister saying homosexuals get aids because it's gods revenge. Seriously what the hell is wrong with ye religious people? Go look at the pictures of what Isis are doing to Shia and Kurdish muslims. Sure they are hacking heads of westerners but you have then stacking up heads of men because they believe something different, gang raping Kurdish women because they are defending themselves from the glorious wonders of an Islamic state they do not want. If they wanted that the Kurds can goto Turkey. And the modern disaster of its current Islamic prime minister. And all this because it's in a book and because you patently have not bothered to read another....is that what you are defending?

Personally it is very saddening to know this one fact about the Middle East and it is as follows...(now it's from memory so cut me a little slack on the figures) there are about 350 million Arabs (I will include Iran although they are not Arabic). If you exclude oil and Israel, their GDP output is the same as Finland..some 7 million. That is a horrible horrible statistic. If you are not deeply worried about that fact, you should be.
I don't care if you believe in Islam or are Jewish or devoted Christian or Buddhist, Hindu or atheist or satanist. Here's the thing we all live on this planet and if we don't stop this complete and utter bull**** and let everyone live as they please, we are in deep deep ****. If you don't want to eat bacon, don't. If you don't want to drink, don't. If someone else does, what the hell business is it of yours?
Spare me the greater than thou postings, I ain't buying. Go about your business and as for the islam taking over crap, you stand about as much chance of that happening as me becoming a follower. You know it I know it the dogs in the street know it. The only reason islam is large is the apostate laws, killing someone for changing their mind and leaving your religion.

Can we all PLEASE just once move the fuk on. Now if you want to defend anything, defend that. Spare me the koranic insight and conversion mania, it means about as much to me personally as a Jehovah's Witness at my door.

Fallschirmjager

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

so even with the US-coalition air strikes Isis continues to make gains
"Isil jihadists make gains in Kobane, close to the Syria-Turkey border, in the face of US air strikes" ~ .telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11144783/Islamic-State-fly-black-flag-over-key-Syrian-border-town.

The only way to truly stop them would be a ground assault which I really cant see happening soon enough Isis will have all of Syria & Iraq under control

Honestly, what is stopping Saudi troops from assisting? Where are the Saudi Air Force, one of the best in the region and also incredibly well equipped. It's not a trick, I honestly would like to know.

Nodin

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Honestly, what is stopping Saudi troops from assisting? .

I'd imagine the Iraqis don't want them involved.

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Where are the Saudi Air Force, one of the best in the region and also incredibly well equipped.
.

They were involved in strikes already.

Gatling

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Honestly, what is stopping Saudi troops from assisting? Where are the Saudi Air Force, one of the best in the region and also incredibly well equipped. It's not a trick, I honestly would like to know.

Seems alot of isis weapons are coming via china which should be looked at .

Saudi won't fight till there Kingdom and royals are directly threatened

Gatling

Nodin wrote: »

I'd imagine the Iraqis don't want them involved.


They were involved in strikes already.

Seems they spent more time posing for twitter pics rather than making air strikes.

Fallschirmjager

Nodin wrote: »

I'd imagine the Iraqis don't want them involved.


They were involved in strikes already.

Didn't know about the air strikes, thanks for that. However if you have an enemy 1km from your capital, might be time to swallow some pride. I also agree with keith16, I think erdrogan (apologies for the spelling) has done a deal. Apparently Isis tanks ran close to the Turkish border yesterday and the U.S. Needed on the ground spotters for close air support which Turkey could have delivered.


Lol Gatling , Twitter feeds from the cockpit, modern world indeed...

Nodin

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Didn't know about the air strikes, thanks for that. However if you have an enemy 1km from your capital, might be time to swallow some pride....

I'd say its deep paranoia rather than pride. Saudis anti-shia and anti-Iranian agenda could well arrive with it, and the country is divided enough as it is.

Gatling

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

Lol Gatling , Twitter feeds from the cockpit, modern world indeed...

No serious they posted something like 100+ pictures posing in front of shiny F15s ..


interesting thinking on turkey the Italians did something similar in Afghanistan they paid the taliban 40 million to make sure there troops weren't engaged who in return avoided patrolling taliban areas.
After 2 Italian soldiers were captured and subsequently rescued in action .

DeadHand

keith16 wrote: »

Turkey are standing idly by as the massacre goes on at their border.

Does anyone really believe that Turkey did a deal with ISIS? 46 hostages freed in return for staying out of the fight??

The Turks are treading lightly. While they see ISIS for the threat it is to their relatively secular way of life, they don't want to see the Kurds strengthened and emboldened. I don't believe they will roll in and confront ISIS directly. They will, however, defend their territory with far more determination and capability than the Syrians or Iraqi state forces have managed so far if it comes to that.

They may feel pressured into more indirect involvement later, being a NATO stalwart. But they'll be wary of arming the
Kurds or allowing a chunk of Northern Iraq to become Kurdistan.

And, yes, it stinks of a deal. ISIS placates the Turks to keep them on the sidelines a little longer, Turkey gets her people back and, secretly, many in her military will not be displeased at the Kurdish forces in the border regions taking a battering. Win win.

mikeyjames9

why can't they track these hostages down?

SwiftJustice

Gatling wrote: »

interesting thinking on turkey the Italians did something similar in Afghanistan they paid the taliban 40 million to make sure there troops weren't engaged who in return avoided patrolling taliban areas.
After 2 Italian soldiers were captured and subsequently rescued in action .

That's how the US 'won' in Iraq with the surge. They paid off the Sunni tribes in the north and gave all the young men ****ty jobs picking up trash and planting trees.

DeadHand

Gatling wrote: »

interesting thinking on turkey the Italians did something similar in Afghanistan they paid the taliban 40 million to make sure there troops weren't engaged who in return avoided patrolling taliban areas.
After 2 Italian soldiers were captured and subsequently rescued in action .

That is interesting, I hadn't heard that. Italy has not been renowned for military valour or determination in recent history, if true this seems consistant.

Gatling

DeadHand wrote: »

That is interesting, I hadn't heard that. Italy has not been renowned for military valour or determination in recent history, if true this seems consistant.

39 casualties in 10 years from several thousand deployed .
Including deployments in helmand. .
There special forces are actually held in high regard especially there mountain troops.


But that's a different thread I was just relating to the turkish hostages that were released by isis

wiseoldelf34

i am a bit confused by the whole thing now!
when this started you had Syrian government on one side and the rebels or the F.S.A on the other.?so where did this Islamic state crowd come from?also why have we not seen basir on the Tele for long time?

Deco99

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

so even with the US-coalition air strikes Isis continues to make gains
"Isil jihadists make gains in Kobane, close to the Syria-Turkey border, in the face of US air strikes" ~ .telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11144783/Islamic-State-fly-black-flag-over-key-Syrian-border-town.

The only way to truly stop them would be a ground assault which I really cant see happening soon enough Isis will have all of Syria & Iraq under control

Under control? Hardly. Occupied at best. Now comes the hard part. Keeping the gains.