ISIS are pure evil.

Buona Fortuna

daUbiq wrote: »

I agree but not sure what you mean by us... perhaps you mean the yank warmongers and their lackeys the British?

Yes but we get carried along as the also rans.

Its OT and a different argument to what others are having. I'd like to see a different model for our neutrality. Rather than the "Ah sure use our airspace", I'd like to see us speaking up for the underdog, to be the honest broker for peace when $hit does happen.

I'd like to see us use what assets we have to achieve this. Even the shamrock thing in the white house.

Gatling

Looking like there's been trouble in turkey last night when kurds protesting the lack of involvement from Turkey over isis was met with batons and cs gas from the authorities

Fratton Fred

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Yes but we get carried along as the also rans.

Its OT and a different argument to what others are having. I'd like to see a different model for our neutrality. Rather than the "Ah sure use our airspace", I'd like to see us speaking up for the underdog, to be the honest broker for peace when $hit does happen.

I'd like to see us use what assets we have to achieve this. Even the shamrock thing in the white house.

In this case, sticking up for the underdog means the Kurds and the Yazidis.

What assets would you like to see deployed to help them?

AudreyHepburn

DLMA23 wrote: »

Crusaders? Spanish Inquisition?

What about them?

Buona Fortuna

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In this case, sticking up for the underdog means the Kurds and the Yazidis.

What assets would you like to see deployed to help them?

I don't mean assets in the usual, military sense Fred.

I mean our influence with the Yanks, Brits, EU, where we align with other smaller nations.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Looking like there's been trouble in turkey last night when kurds protesting the lack of involvement from Turkey over isis was met with batons and cs gas from the authorities

Great to see a NATO member standing up for freedom and democracy!

Egginacup

These ISIS nuts were created and trained by the CIA to overthrow Ghadaffi. Libya was a stable, prosperous, peaceful country until NATO attacked the place, unleashed ISIS and turned the place into a medieval hell-hole. Now ISIS are running amok in the Greater Middle East and the cretins in the West and their apologists are talking about the "grave threat" these people pose to our very survival.
They don't once mention that ISIS was THEIR creation.

Egginacup

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Great to see a NATO member standing up for freedom and democracy!

Now if Putin's police did that there'd be tears and gnashing of teeth.

Putinovsky

realweirdo wrote: »

In future lets support the Kurds to the hilt and if Shia Iraq falls, so be it. Of all the "allies" in the the middle east, the Kurds are the only ones that can be relied on.

Unfortunately the west believes Turkey to be a more important ally than Kurds (they are) and thus they will not support the Kurds as the situation demands.

Shia have always been more natural allies to the west than Sunnis. They are a lot more moderate. Iran strike me as a natural American ally, unfortunately Israel complicates things.

Gatling

Egginacup wrote: »

Now if Putin's police did that there'd be tears and gnashing of teeth.

It's a daily occurance in Vladland

Gatling

Egginacup wrote: »

These ISIS nuts were created and trained by the CIA to overthrow Ghadaffi. Libya was a stable, prosperous, peaceful country until NATO attacked the place, unleashed ISIS and turned the place into a medieval hell-hole. Now ISIS are running amok in the Greater Middle East and the cretins in the West and their apologists are talking about the "grave threat" these people pose to our very survival.
They don't once mention that ISIS was THEIR creation.

That's completely untrue

Isis didn't come from libya

Libya was under a dictatorship until the peope rose up and said enough is enough the rest is history ,
Libya will eventually come good again its just going to take a long time

old_aussie

As usual turkey is all gobble gobble and no action.

turkisk prime minister runs off at the mouth with threats and does nothing.

But Mr. Erdogan said Tuesday that Turkey would not get more deeply involved in the conflict with the Islamic State unless the United States agreed to give greater support to rebels trying to unseat the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad. That has deepened tensions with President Obama, who would like Turkey to take stronger action against the Islamic State and to leave the fight against Mr. Assad out of it.

Should the islamic state attack turkey, then Obama should just stand by and watch.

turkey must think the US is there to do it all while the turks just watch.

kstand

old_aussie wrote: »

As usual turkey is all gobble gobble and no action.

turkisk prime minister runs off at the mouth with threats and does nothing.

But Mr. Erdogan said Tuesday that Turkey would not get more deeply involved in the conflict with the Islamic State unless the United States agreed to give greater support to rebels trying to unseat the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad. That has deepened tensions with President Obama, who would like Turkey to take stronger action against the Islamic State and to leave the fight against Mr. Assad out of it.

Should the islamic state attack turkey, then Obama should just stand by and watch.

turkey must think the US is there to do it all while the turks just watch.

If Turkey were to attack the Islamic State then you could have major repercussions within Turkey itself, especially from the threat of terrorist activity in areas frequented by western holiday makers. That alone could have a huge impact on the Turkish tourist industry. At the same time, they regard the Kurds as a threat and would not be happy to see a Kurdish state established next door. So they are caught between a rock and a hard place imo.

Streetwalker

We (as in the west) should just leave them to it. The mistake we keep making is getting involved. It's none of our business.

Fratton Fred

Egginacup wrote: »

These ISIS nuts were created and trained by the CIA to overthrow Ghadaffi. Libya was a stable, prosperous, peaceful country until NATO attacked the place, unleashed ISIS and turned the place into a medieval hell-hole. Now ISIS are running amok in the Greater Middle East and the cretins in the West and their apologists are talking about the "grave threat" these people pose to our very survival.
They don't once mention that ISIS was THEIR creation.

Where on earth did you pull that from?

The Aussie

Streetwalker wrote: »

We (as in the west) should just leave them to it. The mistake we keep making is getting involved. It's none of our business.

So by your theory the Palestinians will be gone by Tuesday, stand back and let Isreal raze the Country, good idea, keep them coming hey...

Streetwalker

The Aussie wrote: »

So by your theory the Palestinians will be gone by Tuesday, stand back and let Isreal raze the Country, good idea, keep them coming hey...

No interest in Israel or Palestine. Like I said leave them to it. For far too long now the west has made the problem worse whilst Saudi (the areas real terrorists) have stood by laughing at us. Screw them let them deal with their own problems.

Streetwalker

Egginacup wrote: »

These ISIS nuts were created and trained by the CIA to overthrow Ghadaffi. Libya was a stable, prosperous, peaceful country until NATO attacked the place, unleashed ISIS and turned the place into a medieval hell-hole. Now ISIS are running amok in the Greater Middle East and the cretins in the West and their apologists are talking about the "grave threat" these people pose to our very survival.
They don't once mention that ISIS was THEIR creation.

Spot on.

SEPT 23 1989

[QUOTE=Streetwalker;92526905Screw them let them deal with their own problems.[/QUOTE]

to late for that now the wolf is at the door

LordNorbury

Streetwalker wrote: »

We (as in the west) should just leave them to it. The mistake we keep making is getting involved. It's none of our business.

That's grand until a few of them saunter in here and start killing people in a shopping centre or something along those lines.

Streetwalker

LordNorbury wrote: »

That's grand until a few of them saunter in here and start killing people in a shopping centre or something along those lines.

Why would they do that? They want on Islamic state Ireland's not part of that?? Anyway im a firm believer that the Arabs can sort their own sh it out if they have to. When the time comes they will crush IS if they want. I think they are laughing their arses off at America and Britain doing their dirty work and all the while building up hatred against the west.

Streetwalker

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

to late for that now the wolf is at the door

Well the wolf was created by the west interfering in matters none of their business. When will be ever learn

realweirdo

LordNorbury wrote: »

That's grand until a few of them saunter in here and start killing people in a shopping centre or something along those lines.

Pretty much inevitable. The goal of all violent islamists is the same...to convert as many people to Islam as possible, not by argument or persuasion but through the threat of chopping their head off or executing them. ISIL will keep spreading if left unchecked to a point where eventually they can't be stopped.

As for the Saudis dealing with this, maybe they should. But where are the EU? Where is the rapid reactionary force we were promised? We shouldn't have to wait for America to get involved everytime an organisation like ISIL pops up.

Streetwalker

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

to late for that now the wolf is at the door

Well the wolf was created by the west interfering in matters none of their business. When will we ever learn

Streetwalker

realweirdo wrote: »

Pretty much inevitable. The goal of all violent islamists is the same...to convert as many people to Islam as possible, not by argument or persuasion but through the threat of chopping their head off or executing them. ISIL will keep spreading if left unchecked to a point where eventually they can't be stopped.

As for the Saudis dealing with this, maybe they should. But where are the EU? Where is the rapid reactionary force we were promised? We shouldn't have to wait for America to get involved everytime an organisation like ISIL pops up.

The Europeans are the sensible one's thank god.

LordNorbury

realweirdo wrote: »

Pretty much inevitable. The goal of all violent islamists is the same...to convert as many people to Islam as possible, not by argument or persuasion but through the threat of chopping their head off or executing them. ISIL will keep spreading if left unchecked to a point where eventually they can't be stopped.

As for the Saudis dealing with this, maybe they should. But where are the EU? Where is the rapid reactionary force we were promised? We shouldn't have to wait for America to get involved everytime an organisation like ISIL pops up.

Couldn't agree more, and if they ever become a credible threat within the EU, we will not be best positioned to deal with them here no thanks to us being known as the people pleasers of the world who will welcome anyone here and our unquestioning love of, and our obsession with accommodating all things "multicultural"....

We seem to have a deep complacency here in this country I think when it comes to ISIS, the logic often appearing to be that because we never invaded a muslim state and because sure aren't we great people for giving them humanitarian aid, that therefore we are not on the radar.

There is as far as I can see, no distinction being made between us and any other state, maybe with the three notable exceptions of the US, the UK and maybe of course Israel who they reserve a special hatred of, but make no mistake about this, in their eyes, us Irish are "infidels and apostates"...

realweirdo

Streetwalker wrote: »

The Europeans are the sensible one's thank god.

You make it sound like the Europeans had nothing to do with the Iraq War in 2003! There were many European countries involved. They got badly burned, but then again it wasn't the war itself that was the problem but losing the peace. Iraq was always going to be a long term effort.

ISIL came as much from Syria as Iraq, and the West did next to nothing to arm ISIL in Syria. Non lethal aid was given by the west but that wasn't much good.

Whatever arms ISIL got they got mainly from Assad stockpiles in Syria, and some funding came from Gulf countries.

The west not doing anything in Syria is just the most idiotic idea I have heard yet. As I outlined, burying your head in the sand which you are advocating will do nothing except encourage ISIL to expand further.

LordNorbury

realweirdo wrote: »

You make it sound like the Europeans had nothing to do with the Iraq War in 2003! There were many European countries involved. They got badly burned, but then again it wasn't the war itself that was the problem but losing the peace. Iraq was always going to be a long term effort.

ISIL came as much from Syria as Iraq, and the West did next to nothing to arm ISIL in Syria. Non lethal aid was given by the west but that wasn't much good.

Whatever arms ISIL got they got mainly from Assad stockpiles in Syria, and some funding came from Gulf countries.

The west not doing anything in Syria is just the most idiotic idea I have heard yet. As I outlined, burying your head in the sand which you are advocating will do nothing except encourage ISIL to expand further.

Yeah and what country made a nice tidy little sum out of letting the US military refuel at Shannon on the way to Iraq?!? And those rendition flights???

realweirdo

In any case, ISIS don't have to attack the West. If "we" left them alone and turned a blind eye and buried our heads in the sand, they would eventually take over Iraq and that would bring them to the border with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. You can be certain they'd attack both those countries and possibly take them over too. There goes our oil supply. ISIS are not idiots, they have a long term strategy for taking over the Middle East and if it was left to the EU to confront them they'd succeed in that.

coolhandspan

Okay Guys and girls, maybe i'm reading this wrong. feel free to contradict me here.
The battle for Kobane is the line in the sand, our rubicon, if we lose Kobane now{ as a civilised world} we are in trouble.

why are we not urging Turkey to go into Kobane and kick the lunatics out. let,s start getting victories on the board.

maybe i'm daft, but Kobane is now vital.