ISIS are pure evil.

nokia69

coolhandspan wrote: »

Okay Guys and girls, maybe i'm reading this wrong. feel free to contradict me here.
The battle for Kobane is the line in the sand, our rubicon, if we lose Kobane now{ as a civilised world} we are in trouble.

why are we not urging Turkey to go into Kobane and kick the lunatics out. let,s start getting victories on the board.

maybe i'm daft, but Kobane is now vital.

vital to what

if the town was sitting on an ocean of oil you could call it vital

turkey don't care about the kurds, they are happy to see them fighting ISIS

thats just the way it works

Conall Cernach

coolhandspan wrote: »

Okay Guys and girls, maybe i'm reading this wrong. feel free to contradict me here.
The battle for Kobane is the line in the sand, our rubicon, if we lose Kobane now{ as a civilised world} we are in trouble.

why are we not urging Turkey to go into Kobane and kick the lunatics out. let,s start getting victories on the board.

maybe i'm daft, but Kobane is now vital.

It's in the Turks interests for ISIL to kill loads of Kurds.

DK man

And Turkey want to join the eu!

We need to boycott turkey / holidays and whatever we can to send out our support for the Kurds and the people of kobane

What have our political leaders being dong / saying about this attack on innocent people? Where are the lovelies of the Labour Party ? The loonies from the ula etc... Silent / voiceless useless numbies who only see bombs if they come from Israel ... Useless irrational muppets

Gatling

It might be time for Nato to review it's membership policy .
Turkey are letting the side down big time

tomwaterford

realweirdo wrote: »

In any case, ISIS don't have to attack the West. If "we" left them alone and turned a blind eye and buried our heads in the sand, they would eventually take over Iraq and that would bring them to the border with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. You can be certain they'd attack both those countries and possibly take them over too. There goes our oil supply. ISIS are not idiots, they have a long term strategy for taking over the Middle East and if it was left to the EU to confront them they'd succeed in that.

I taught it was reported at one stage they were selling the oil from oil fields to fund themselves??

Gatling

tomwaterford wrote: »

I taught it was reported at one stage they were selling the oil from oil fields to fund themselves??

They were / still selling the oil from captured oil fields

Streetwalker

coolhandspan wrote: »

Okay Guys and girls, maybe i'm reading this wrong. feel free to contradict me here.
The battle for Kobane is the line in the sand, our rubicon, if we lose Kobane now{ as a civilised world} we are in trouble.

why are we not urging Turkey to go into Kobane and kick the lunatics out. let,s start getting victories on the board.

maybe i'm daft, but Kobane is now vital.

It's vital in no way shape or form to anyone bar the people living there. Also victories wtf this isn't premiership football

Streetwalker

coolhandspan wrote: »

Okay Guys and girls, maybe i'm reading this wrong. feel free to contradict me here.
The battle for Kobane is the line in the sand, our rubicon, if we lose Kobane now{ as a civilised world} we are in trouble.

why are we not urging Turkey to go into Kobane and kick the lunatics out. let,s start getting victories on the board.

maybe i'm daft, but Kobane is now vital.

It's vital in no way shape or form to anyone bar the people living there. Also "victories" wtf this isn't premiership football.

coolhandspan

I don't think I am being argumentative here. Firstly yes we as a civilised people need a victory in Kobane. I agree that it is not strategically important but it is where the West[us] has decided to take our stand. if we lose Kobane we will be seen as weak by ISIS and the entire world.
maybe i'm talking nonsense but this is the way I am reading it.

Deco99

You are talking nonsense. Its where the west has taken its stand.... rolling on floor laughing or whatever the kids say. Some stand. Kobane is only important because news reporters can film the fighting from the safety of turkey. The narrative is then that this important. Id love to see IS annihilated but lets not get carried away Bill Pullman from Independence day.

CaptainInsano

Deco99 wrote: »

You are talking nonsense. Its where the west has taken its stand.... rolling on floor laughing or whatever the kids say. Some stand. Kobane is only important because news reporters can film the fighting from the safety of turkey. The narrative is then that this important. Id love to see IS annihilated but lets not get carried away Bill Pullman from Independence day.

I laughed.

realweirdo

coolhandspan wrote: »

I don't think I am being argumentative here. Firstly yes we as a civilised people need a victory in Kobane. I agree that it is not strategically important but it is where the West[us] has decided to take our stand. if we lose Kobane we will be seen as weak by ISIS and the entire world.
maybe i'm talking nonsense but this is the way I am reading it.

The Kurds are the only credible group in the entire middle east seriously fighting ISIS. They were the ones who rescued many of the people off the mountain in Iraq. They halted ISIS in Iraq. And they are fighting them in Syria. And with what? Limited weapons from what we can see. If we lose the Kurds, then the fight against ISIS is all but lost. The Kurds are our boots on the ground. Kobani definitely should be a line in the sand. Here's hoping it turns out a Stalingrad for ISIS, and the beginning of the tide turning against them.

kerten

Gatling wrote: »

It might be time for Nato to review it's membership policy .
Turkey are letting the side down big time

I thought that NATO policy was all about assisting member countries when they are attacked, not asking members to engage terrorist groups out of their border.

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

It might be time for Nato to review it's membership policy .
Turkey are letting the side down big time

Turkey are not letting any side down, they are implementing NATO policy which is to get rid of Assad and if that means using ISIS to do their dirty then so be it. NATO is rotten to the core.

ivytwine

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

...

What he said. Defender of Faith I haven't been online in a few days but I have no interest in getting in a PM Bible debate with you. The ONLY part of the Bible that I found had any relevance to me was Christ's line about "doing unto others as they would have done to you". I'm not religious but I think that's a good way to live your life- this is the whole thing as Fallschirmjager says, about Christians picking and choosing what part of the religion suits them. That's why you have thousands of different sects, especially in Protestantism, where reading the Bible yourself was encouraged.

I am not familiar with the Quran at all but I'm sure like the Bible (Old and New) it contradicts itself all over the place. That's the thing with sacred texts. Others in the thread have quoted imams who have given scriptural evidence that IS are going against the Quran. I'm not into that; I've no doubt that they are adhering to some passages of the Quran while blatantly ignoring others. To be honest Harry Potter has more relevance in my life than the Bible, Quran or whatever else. At least it's consistent.

Back to the line about "doing unto others". I am not a violent person. I disagree with the death penalty. I was very much against the invasion of Iraq in 2003, I even protested in Dublin about it. While I acknowledge the West has had more than a small part to play in creating extremism, we have to do unto IS and they want to do unto us. They want to destroy us. We have to destroy them, for our own safety.

coolhandspan

So Turkey's foreign minister says it is not realistic to conduct a ground operation in Kobane. Why? They have a massive army and can provide their own top cover. Surely once given a Un Mandate they would be perfectly placed to intervene?

wes

coolhandspan wrote: »

So Turkey's foreign minister says it is not realistic to conduct a ground operation in Kobane. Why? They have a massive army and can provide their own top cover. Surely once given a Un Mandate they would be perfectly placed to intervene?

Turkey doesn't want to help Kurdish nationalism, which imo is short sighted, as ISIS are far worse than the PKK could ever be. Ultimately the PKK is there concern sadly, and hence why they refuse to intervene.

Meglamonia

That vice documentary is mad,they're brainwashed.

Manic Moran

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Doubt it, they don't have the belly for it at the moment, as was said it will take a massive attack on US/British soil for them to consider going in.

I don't know about that. There is no political will in the current administration, but I think it's all about posturing for the next set of elections. Ultimately, if it's worth using military force against them, they may as well use -effective- military force, instead of squandering bajillions of dollars on F-22s dropping bombs in the desert. The American people are, I think, fed up with these long drawn out conflicts.

The last thing any US president can sell to their people is another war involving Iraq.

I am not so sure. The American people are a little wary of the concept of a long war fought against relatively indeterminate enemies for no particular benefit to the US. ISIS, however, are a different kettle of fish. Generally speaking, as a people, if you directly piss us off, we -will- react. Look at how we went from isolationism and a second-rate military power before Pearl Harbour to fighting a two-hemisphere war or the reactions after 9/11. ISIS are killing Americans and then taunting us about it. Well, if you're going to play with a rattlesnake that's trying to rest, don't be surprised if you get bitten.

Its as if these acts of violence are something new, its laughable that the US/Britain can be outraged about what IS are doing when they are in a coalition with the Saudis.

The Saudis aren't beheading aid workers, and whatever their byzantine rules internally, at least they generally go easier on foreigners.

Quite a prominent and extreme British Muslim cleric who has a reputation for sympathizing with jihadists even called for Alan Henning's release saying that it was not in keeping with Islamic law to kill a man who was delivering humanitarian aid.

I've noticed that. A lot of those condemnations seem to have qualifications of some sort of another. What's his position on people who were not delivering humanitarian aid? Journalists? Assessor? Even a captured prisoner who surrendered? How about a more simple "Stop bloody beheading people?"

Streetwalker

coolhandspan wrote: »

So Turkey's foreign minister says it is not realistic to conduct a ground operation in Kobane. Why? They have a massive army and can provide their own top cover. Surely once given a Un Mandate they would be perfectly placed to intervene?

It would be piss easy for IS to seek revenge for Turkey getting involved. Can you imagine what a coupe of terror attacks in Turkey would do to their tourist industry because you can be fuc king sure the Turks understand. Follow the money. Turkey ain't getting involved.

Streetwalker

Meglamonia wrote: »

That vice documentary is mad,they're brainwashed.

As brainwashed as the western populations who believed there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? The headhackers aren't the only ones who use propaganda to further their interests.

cometogether

Streetwalker wrote: »

As brainwashed as the western populations who believed there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? The headhackers aren't the only ones who use propaganda to further their interests.

Yes, because every single one of us in the West was in favour of that war. Bravo.

cometogether

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/bolton/11524297.Bolton_s_Muslim_community_raises___30_000_in_tribute_to_Alan_Henning/?ref=twtrec

A nice gesture and hopefully will help community relations if they were anyway fragmented after what happened

realweirdo

Streetwalker wrote: »

As brainwashed as the western populations who believed there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? The headhackers aren't the only ones who use propaganda to further their interests.

Most people were sceptical of the WMDs and most people could see that story for what it was. Most Jihadists are not sceptical about Islam however or extreme Islam.

Meglamonia

Streetwalker wrote: »

As brainwashed as the western populations who believed there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? The headhackers aren't the only ones who use propaganda to further their interests.

You didn't have little 4 year old kids running around in front of cameras calling for an invasion of Iraq etc..there's Muslim kids over there declaring their allegiance to the caliphate and wanting to kill infidels across the world,it's madness.

BlaasForRafa

Manic Moran wrote: »

I don't know about that. There is no political will in the current administration, but I think it's all about posturing for the next set of elections. Ultimately, if it's worth using military force against them, they may as well use -effective- military force, instead of squandering bajillions of dollars on F-22s dropping bombs in the desert. The American people are, I think, fed up with these long drawn out conflicts.

Finally it seems as if the aircraft that the USAF brass wants to get rid of so as to find money for the F-35 is going to be deployed to the area http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-usafs-much-maligned-a-10-warthogs-are-deploying-to-1640395280

I'm sure you'd have far more knowledge on the merits or otherwise of the A-10's capability as a close air support platform to aid the kurds but I'd imagine if I was a Daesh soldier I'd be terrified just seeing or hearing one of these over the battlefield.

Richard D James

So basically, in hindsight, it would have been better to have left Saddam alone ?

nokia69

Richard D James wrote: »

So basically, in hindsight, it would have been better to have left Saddam alone ?

yeah looks that way

and now the same people are doing their best to remove assad in syria

biko

http://nypost.com/2014/10/10/pregnant-teen-girls-who-joined-isis-weve-made-a-huge-mistake/

Samra Kesinovic, 17, and Sabina Selimovic, 15, are believed to be married, pregnant and living in the Islamic State-controlled city of Raqqa in northern Syria, Central European News reports.

The teenage girls who abandoned their families in Austria to become jihadis for ISIS feel they’ve made a terrible mistake by joining the barbaric lifestyle and they want to come home.

Not the life of glory they had hoped for it seems.

There are still many young girls with ISIS that left their families behind to help create more little jihadis.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-luring-young-european-muslim-girls-as-jihad-brides/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/06/british-women-married-to-jihad-isis-syria

realweirdo

Richard D James wrote: »

So basically, in hindsight, it would have been better to have left Saddam alone ?

How far do you want to go back with this? Might have been better not to draw up arbitrary states in the region post WW1?

You have to draw a line somewhere. ISIS gained a lot of strength in Syria from the uprising. They also attracted an awful lot of funding from other sunni states who believed they were fighting Assad which they weren't really. They took the money and the arms and started to set up their own caliphate. They started mainly in Raqqa in Syria and expanded outwards. Linking ISIS to the fall of Saddam is tenuous. There are much more immediate reasons why they were formed and gained such strength, the main one being the failure of Assad to even attack them until it was far too late, while he attacked every other opposition group with barrel bombs and the like.

The real mistake was made post WW1. There should have been an Alawite state, a Sunni state taking in much of North Eastern Syria and Northern Iraq and possibly a Kurish state. Not for the last time, post colonial arbitrary borders have caused misery.