ISIS are pure evil.

Iwasfrozen

Egginacup wrote: »

Everyone take a deep breath.......hold it for a second....then release.


Now, why do militant groups in various states exist?

Please, no answers such as:

. Muslims are crazy
. Muslims want to take over the world
. Muslims hate this that the other.

There is the possibility that among these militant groups that many classify as religious radical fundamentalists are those who have no religious or ideological slant.
Why are they fighting?

Overpopulation and lack of resources would be two major factors.

(Some) People tend to blame US intervention in the region but history didn't begin with the fall of Saddam and this ignores the region has always been a hotbed of violence, even during and before the Ottoman period.

BuilderPlumber

topmanamillion wrote: »

Surely Iran has the military might as well but if they were to invade Iraq they would not leave and would become an occupying force as bad as ISIS. ISIS have been very shrewd in not going too far, they are fully aware of their strengths and weaknesses.

Im not so sure ISIS are surrounded by enemies as they must have supply routes open to fuel their army. While they have large taken military supplies left behind by the Iraqi army they would need to be able to buy things like ammunition and fuel.

After spending 8 bloody years in Iraq back in the 1980s (still remembered by millions of Iranians to this day and still having a negative affect on the country to this day), Iran (like the US) has no stomach for another Iraq war. Iran will defend its borders and will give support to Iraq and Syria but is aware of what a fullscale invasion would do. So, Iran's position is to keep them weak and at bay.

Of course, there's people friendly to ISIS who ISIS can sell their oil through. Iraq is a very poor country ravaged by decades of war. There are many who will be glad to be oil salesmen for ISIS to use and everyone gets rich.

Karl Stein

Sufa wrote: »

What's your solution then?

Stop fucking shit up in the Middle East that causes blow-back. As for ISIS:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

BuilderPlumber

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

That just displays a complete ignorance of history. Thousands of people were killed by the Taraki regime in it's brief existence before the ill-fated soviet invasion. It was the reforms that Taraki's government tried to impose on Afghanistan which got the conservative tribes riled up and started the ball rolling in Afghanistan's descent.

Perhaps you should take a look at the arms that most of the forces in the area are using. I'll give you a hint, most of them are supplied by your buddies, the russians and chinese.

I am well aware of this situation. Taraki was putting through modernisation projects but the people did not support it thus the tribes and Mullahs were angered. This is much the same why all countries in the region tend to be ruled by regimes that don't want to irk the conservative population groups within their country who also are the most violent.

Afghanistan was never perfect but things were better prior to the late 1970s. But one thing lead to another. A series of coups lead to instability and then the usual cold war stuff took hold. The brutality of the Taliban and al Qaeda was born out of decades of war and hardship.

I am well aware Russians and Chinese contribute a lot of weapons. They too are superpowers and all superpowers are jostling for a piece of the action within each of these countries and alliances between countries and groups are formed. Russia supported the Taraki regime, China also desired to see a communist regime there and the West supported the anti-communist forces.

Syria sees the same situation. Russian support for Assad, Western support for the FSA and of late Assad too (politics is strange and allegiances change!). ISIS are also being armed and the whole arms industry wants to see these wars continue and escalate.

Karl Stein

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Perhaps you should take a look at the arms that most of the forces in the area are using. I'll give you a hint, most of them are supplied by your buddies, the russians and chinese.

You just love ignoring my posts in favour of blabbering on about other stuff.

Yawn.

kstand

Karl Stein wrote: »

Stop fucking shit up in the Middle East that causes blow-back. As for ISIS:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell I think.
I'd love to blow them to kingdom come but I don't think its the wests call. I am very much in favor of arming the Kurds to the hilt first and foremost.
There seems to be a strain of thought that the Saudis will bring it all to an end once Assad has been toppled - but for that the happen the Russian and to a lesser extent the Chinese have to withdraw their support for Assad. The Saudi are trying to force the Russians hands by keeping the price of oil as low as it is (along with putting the boom in US oil and gas exploration to an end). Russia has serious economic problems and one of their primary sources of income is oil - and they are getting murdered by the current price. If the Saudis reduce the amount of oil they produced, this would force prices back up - but they know that by keeping oil production as it is, the market is swamped and the Russians are going to feel the pinch. With the result they hope that Russia will be forced to distance itself from the Assad regime which would lead to it being toppled. The Saudis would then have huge influence over who took over in Syria and they would then go about tackling the problem with ISIS and subsequently bring the price of oil back up.
The West would love to get involved and take the fight to ISIS - but as you rightly pointed out, the scum would use everything as a propaganda tool to recruit support for themselves and this in turn would create huge security problems globally. I often hear the well trodden line "the west is bombing and killing Muslim children every day" - you dont have to be Einstein to imagine what they would do if they were tackled head on and bombed to hell.

BlaasForRafa

Karl Stein wrote: »

You just love ignoring my posts in favour of blabbering on about other stuff.

Yawn.

Guess I hit a nerve there. Your one-sided anti-western spiel is boring. If you tried looking at things from more than one perspective then maybe you wouldn't be so predictable.

Zack Morris

These savages are now indulging in the child sex trade:

http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.817/sickos-isis-post-price-list-for-sex-with-captured-infants.html

The perverted terrorist organization the Islamic State (IS/ISIS) has put captured female sex slaves from the Iraqi ethnic minority on sale and has also released the age wise price list. According to a document issued by the ISIS, Christian and Yazidi girls, aged between 1 and 9, are up for grabs for $172. Girls that are 10 to 20 are sold for nearly $129, while those aged 20 to 30 are sold for about $86. ISIS sex slave price for women that are 30 to 40 is about $6 and for those aged 40 to 50, it is $43. Slaves are not listed as women – they are labelled as Merchandise.

• PRICE (in Dinar) MERCHANDISE
  
• 200,000 age 1-9/Yezidi/Christian
  
• 150,000 age 10-20/Yezidi/Christian
  
• 100,000 age 20-30/Yezidi/Christian
  
• 75,000 age 30-40/Yezidi/Christian
  
• 50,000 age 40-50/Yezidi/Christian

Limit to 3 Sex Slaves with exception to foreign sales to Turks, Syrians and Gulf states.

The terrorist organization, that has full-fledged slave markets in Mosul, Iraq and Raqqa, Syria, has cited Islamic theology to justify its kidnapping of women as sex slaves. In October 2014, the Islamic State, in an article in the fourth edition of the ISIS English-language digital magazine called Dabiq, claimed that Islamic law permits its fighters to take religious minority women as concubines.

Shurimgreat

Egginacup wrote: »

Everyone take a deep breath.......hold it for a second....then release.


Now, why do militant groups in various states exist?

Please, no answers such as:

. Muslims are crazy
. Muslims want to take over the world
. Muslims hate this that the other.

There is the possibility that among these militant groups that many classify as religious radical fundamentalists are those who have no religious or ideological slant.
Why are they fighting?

More attempts at apologising for Islamic extremists?

Whether some in these groups are only in it as get rich quick schemes is completely irrelevant. Most if not all of them from the ordinary footsoldier to the commanders at the top are fanatical Islamists. No-one seriously disputes that. And they recruit fanatical Islamists who want to bring us back to a 7th century world. Again no-one doubts that. These are fanatics pure and simple. And Islam is the particular vehicle that unites them all, just as Nazism united people in the past to carry out evil acts.

kstand

ISIS are a bunch of paedos as well as everything else. Though that's not a surprise. Child raping scum.

nokia69

kstand wrote: »

ISIS are a bunch of paedos as well as everything else. Though that's not a surprise. Child raping scum.

just like their prophet

Shurimgreat

nokia69 wrote: »

just like their prophet

Exactly. Their ideology is grotesque, evil and dangerous.

Call Me Jimmy

is it a fact that in the qu'ran that is clearly justified? is it an interpretive thing?

Zack Morris

nokia69 wrote: »

just like their prophet

His sex life is used as a justification for child marriages in the region. A few countries actually allow child marriages by law.

nokia69

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

In the past year, President Obama has referred to the Islamic State, variously, as “not Islamic” and as al-Qaeda’s “jayvee team,” statements that reflected confusion about the group, and may have contributed to significant strategic errors.

The reality is that the Islamic State is Islamic. Very Islamic. Yes, it has attracted psychopaths and adventure seekers, drawn largely from the disaffected populations of the Middle East and Europe. But the religion preached by its most ardent followers derives from coherent and even learned interpretations of Islam.

a long but very good article on ISIS

nokia69

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

is it a fact that in the qu'ran that is clearly justified? is it an interpretive thing?

what ever the prophet did all male muslims are allowed to do, its all in the koran

and yes its a fact he had a 9 year old wife

kstand

nokia69 wrote: »

what ever the prophet did all male muslims are allowed to do, its all in the koran

When you think about it - basing a religion on the actions of violent, child-raping criminal.

Shurimgreat

Some people would have us believe its not Islamic, unrelated, and so on and so forth. As you said nokia69, this is pure Islam in action, make no mistake. Many jihadists have been very impressed by Al-Baghdadi's knowlege of Islam. He's been studying it for years, if not decades, I think he is a scholar or something. He knows it inside out, far better than those people who say he's not following Islam. Just one of the reasons many have been attracted to the group.

A lot of leaders of Islamic groups in the past didn't really know much about Islam. They were just your regular shoot 'em up terrorists. That can't be said about Al-Baghdadi who is something of an expert and certainly aspires to a fanatical, hardcore, undiluted version of the religion.

fr336

Usually I'm well on the left of 'political' arguments and Western interference, but this is getting well out of hand...all the big nations of the world with an interest here (which is a lot now, they seem determined to piss everyone off) need to go at these morons hard until they are eliminated...they will not 'understand' anything, they revel in war, they simply need to be destroyed. Given the chance they're a modern Nazi party and all this dithering I fear could lead to far worse scenarios - how long do you leave a bunch of maniacs with a good bit of money and taking in more 'soldiers' and land and resources by the day before they're a danger to more and more of the world? Projection of power is key and these loons have done a good job of starting something ugly in this respect I fear.

Streetwalker

nokia69 wrote: »

just like their prophet

And our priests. Religion huh.

Streetwalker

fr336 wrote: »

Usually I'm well on the left of 'political' arguments and Western interference, but this is getting well out of hand...all the big nations of the world with an interest here (which is a lot now, they seem determined to piss everyone off) need to go at these morons hard until they are eliminated...they will not 'understand' anything, they revel in war, they simply need to be destroyed. Given the chance they're a modern Nazi party and all this dithering I fear could lead to far worse scenarios - how long do you leave a bunch of maniacs with a good bit of money and taking in more 'soldiers' and land and resources by the day before they're a danger to more and more of the world? Projection of power is key and these loons have done a good job of starting something ugly in this respect I fear.

Isis are losing ground by the week. Let the Arabs take care of them its none of our business

nokia69

Streetwalker wrote: »

And our priests. Religion huh.

no there is a massive difference, your belief that all religions are the same is foolish, and you need to ignore a large amount of evidence to continue with that trendy belief

The_Valeyard

They are like a virus, spreading and infecting . Now their heads popping in Libya, right on the doorstep of Italy and the EU.
Other Arab nations are starting to wake up to the threat, not because of the moral outrage over the genocide or atrocities, but that their own regimes could be in danger.

Streetwalker

Karl Stein wrote: »

Stop fucking shit up in the Middle East that causes blow-back. As for ISIS:

ISIS planners are not stupid. They know if they can provoke a large scale reaction, by burning people alive, it would involve a hammering from the air first and foremost. ISIS fighters would run like **** to their bunkers and caves until the initial 'softening' up abated.

Then, when the bombing subsided, these guys would be out with Hi-Def cameras filming dead children being dug out of rubble. Within hours they'd have it slickly edited and all over every Islamist website on the internet. Cue thousands of disgruntled young men all over the world signing up to fight, local populations rallying around the resistance, millions of dollars pouring in from Saudi and Qatari benefactors, perhaps reprisals from extremists in the EU and everything becomes exponentially worse.

Want to hand these guys a propaganda victory like that?

Or maybe, just maybe, it would be better to let them stew in their medieval ****-holes so that the rest of the region can see just how bad their lives could get if these guys gain support/ground.

Bingo. It's not the wests problem and never should be. We need to stop interfering with these matters and let them sort their own sh it out.

fr336

The_Valeyard wrote: »

They are like a virus, spreading and infecting . Now their heads popping in Libya, right on the doorstep of Italy and the EU.
Other Arab nations are starting to wake up to the threat, not because of the moral outrage over the genocide or atrocities, but that their own regimes could be in danger.

Indeed, the Italians sounded worried and it may be general diplomatic movements but does anyone want to run the risk of them getting anywhere near the EU :eek: I'm sure I'm being very over simplistic here, but if I was a head of state I'd be a bit paranoid like this, just incase....I wouldn't be seemingly playing golf all day!

Streetwalker

nokia69 wrote: »

no there is a massive difference, your belief that all religions are the same is foolish, and you need to ignore a large amount of evidence to continue with that trendy belief

Point out where I said all religions are the same? And what's trendy?

DeadHand

Streetwalker wrote: »

And our priests. Religion huh.

In fairness, I don't think our priests ever found justification and motivation for their crimes in their religion and didn't indulge in them in an attempt to mirror the life of Jesus.

They also didn't specifically target the children of different faiths in a show of hate-filled religious supremacism.

Crucially, they were stopped by the culture they were active in. No such resistance from the populations of Mosul or Raqqa.

This kind of Islam inspired mass rape of children isn't just confined to ISIS occupied areas. Fresh examples of Muslim rape gangs in England specifically targeting indigenous non-religious/Christian children are coming to light constantly.

Shurimgreat

Streetwalker wrote: »

Point out where I said all religions are the same? And what's trendy?

He was possibly referring to this comment.

Streetwalker wrote: »

And our priests. Religion huh.

I think you're trying to equate Christianity with what we are currently seeing in the middle east.

I have no comment to make on Christianity one way or another as a religion, only to say the scale of its modern crimes doesn't really rival ISIS. There are very few Christians if any going around threathening minorities to convert or have their heads chopped off.

kstand

Nor is paedophilia tolerated or condoned in Christianity for that matter.

nokia69

Streetwalker wrote: »

Point out where I said all religions are the same? And what's trendy?

And our priests. Religion huh.

this post to me implies that you think ISIS is just another religion, and all religions are more or less the same anyway

this is a view held my many people on the left, its fashionable and easy to believe for people who don't like to think too hard about things