ISIS are pure evil.

RobYourBuilder

Here's a fascinating article 'What ISIS Really Wants' by Graeme Wood which appeared in The Atlantic yesterday - http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Well worth a read.

nokia69

yeah I posted that article a few pages back, it really is excellent

its long but needs to be read if you want to understand ISIS or radical islam in general

iDave

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Here's a fascinating article 'What ISIS Really Wants' by Graeme Wood which appeared in The Atlantic yesterday - http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Well worth a read.

What I got from that is this ISIS thing will eventually implode once it cant fulfil its own prophesies and this so call caliph is so constrained by what he is supposed to do its only a matter of time before he himself is declared a heretic. The irony!
But this could be years away and in the meantime they will claim a lot of lives. How to stop that is the burning question.

nokia69

iDave wrote: »

What I got from that is this ISIS thing will eventually implode once it cant fulfil its own prophesies and this so call caliph is so constrained by what he is supposed to do its only a matter of time before he himself is declared a heretic. The irony!
But this could be years away and in the meantime they will claim a lot of lives. How to stop that is the burning question.

yeah they seem to be locked into making moves that can only bring about their defeat

but even when that happens, there will still me more islamists who want to create another islamic state, for the islamists no military defeat raises on ideological problem, they will still believe that god will grant final victory

FTA69

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Jesus was completely against violence and very passive. There was no massacre this tribe, chop this guys head off, marry that child, enslave that one. In comparison to Islam, Christianity is very benign even if you were to follow it to the letter of the law.

But yet how many untold people were killed and tortured and enslaved in the name of Christianity as it unfolded? The Catholic Church supported the Crusades (in which Jews were massacred in Jerusalem), the colonisation of America (where the indigenous were wiped out and enslaved) as well as things such as the Inquisition and the burning of Protestant heretics. Christianity has far from a clean record on the rape and pillage front, regardless of what Jesus may have said 2000 years ago.

While ISIS does indeed draw on Islam (I agree that simply denying they're Muslims is a stupid cop-out), they hardly represent the wider Islamic world. Every Muslim I know finds their perspective on most things as well as their actions utterly abhorrent; they have been condemned by various governments in Islamic countries, they are being fought on the ground by Muslims as varied as the Kurds and Hezbollah and have also been condemned by nearly all mainstream Islamic theologians. In short, they are no more representative of the world's Islamic society than the Lord's Resistance Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army) are of Christian society.

kstand

I see today that ISIS - the army of murdering pedophiles - is accused of harvesting body organs:

http://news.sky.com/story/1429646/islamic-state-accused-of-harvesting-organs

old_aussie

see post below

old_aussie

iDave wrote: »

What I got from that is this ISIS thing will eventually implode once it cant fulfil its own prophesies and this so call caliph is so constrained by what he is supposed to do its only a matter of time before he himself is declared a heretic. The irony!
But this could be years away and in the meantime they will claim a lot of lives. How to stop that is the burning question.

Islamic State militants 'burn to death 45 in Iraq'

And it continues,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863

kstand

old_aussie wrote: »

Islamic State militants 'burn to death 45 in Iraq'

And it continues,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31502863

Nobody should be surprised what this army of pedophiles does. IS - the pedophile state.

jobbridge4life

I don't really know what disturbs me more about ISIS that such evil exists in our world, or that the rest of the world seem frankly nonplussed when it comes to actually doing anything to help bring it to an end.

kstand

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I don't really know what disturbs me more about ISIS that such evil exists in our world, or that the rest of the world seem frankly nonplussed when it comes to actually doing anything to help bring it to an end.

Its time for the Arab world to sort its own problems. For too long the west has stepped in and has easily been portrayed as the oppressor.
Now we have an army of pedophiles trying to create a pedophile state in the Arab world in the name of a religion that was founded on the words and actions of a violent pedophile. The whole thing is odious - but it is not the Wests fight.
We have to get our own house in order first. We have a huge problem with the spread of that religion in Europe and beyond - thats what we have to deal with.

cruasder777

FTA69 wrote: »

But yet how many untold people were killed and tortured and enslaved in the name of Christianity as it unfolded? The Catholic Church supported the Crusades (in which Jews were massacred in Jerusalem), the colonisation of America (where the indigenous were wiped out and enslaved) as well as things such as the Inquisition and the burning of Protestant heretics. Christianity has far from a clean record on the rape and pillage front, regardless of what Jesus may have said 2000 years ago.

While ISIS does indeed draw on Islam (I agree that simply denying they're Muslims is a stupid cop-out), they hardly represent the wider Islamic world. Every Muslim I know finds their perspective on most things as well as their actions utterly abhorrent; they have been condemned by various governments in Islamic countries, they are being fought on the ground by Muslims as varied as the Kurds and Hezbollah and have also been condemned by nearly all mainstream Islamic theologians. In short, they are no more representative of the world's Islamic society than the Lord's Resistance Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army) are of Christian society.

You have been fed a load of left wing bs.

One commander in the Crusades (Radulf 1146)led a pogrom against Jews after which he was called back to Rome This was in the Rhineland.

The Crusades were not a Crusade against Jews rather against Islamic invasion which had been happening since the 8th century.

FTA69

You have been fed a load of left wing bs.

Yawn. I've no time for Islam at all; I think Islam and all organised religion generally leads to backward thinking, negativity and prejudice. However, I also have the common sense to acknowledge the fact that religious people are a reality in today's world and more often than not, they're decent folk who have generally the same desires and needs as anyone else. I include Muslim people in that, the same way I include Catholics and born-agains and whoever else.

Likewise if you're going to lecture me on the history of the Crusades, then read up on what happened once they took Jerusalem. They wholesale massacred the city's Jewish inhabitants as well as the Muslim defenders.

For all the talk about 'Judaeo-Christian civilisation' we often hear, the history of Jews at the hands of European Christianity hasn't exactly been the happiest.

Zebra3

cruasder777 wrote: »

Show me where Christianity teaches Murder, butchery, rape etc as you claim ???????????????

Your link is the old testament brainiac :rolleyes: Full of s...

The Old Testament is the first part of the Christian Bible.

A lot of five years could even tell you that. :rolleyes:

Zebra3

kstand wrote: »

Its time for the Arab world to sort its own problems. For too long the west has stepped in and has easily been portrayed as the oppressor.
Now we have an army of pedophiles trying to create a pedophile state in the Arab world in the name of a religion that was founded on the words and actions of a violent pedophile. The whole thing is odious - but it is not the Wests fight.
We have to get our own house in order first. We have a huge problem with the spread of that religion in Europe and beyond - thats what we have to deal with.

Hilarious rewriting of history there.

"Time for the Arabs to sort out their own problems".

So many Arab states had their borders drawn by Western imperial powers. Most of the dictatorships (including Saudi Arabia where the state beheads people) are backed by the West.

If anyone really wants to understand what's going on in the Middle East, read "The Great War For Civilisation" by Robert Fisk.

It'll make those who fall for the American war industry's constant kill call cop on to themselves.

Gatling

News from Libya today an Islamist group alliened to isis Libya /africa branch launched there own airstrikes against targets after apparently getting 3 mig jets airworthy .
If 300/600 immigrants are arriving Italy most nights by boats, europe should start getting worried
imagine 300 heavily armed Islamic fighters landing in Italy and going on a rampage

WheatenBriar

FTA69 wrote: »

Yawn. I've no time for Islam at all; I think Islam and all organised religion generally leads to backward thinking, negativity and prejudice. However, I also have the common sense to acknowledge the fact that religious people are a reality in today's world and more often than not, they're decent folk who have generally the same desires and needs as anyone else. I include Muslim people in that, the same way I include Catholics and born-agains and whoever else.

Likewise if you're going to lecture me on the history of the Crusades, then read up on what happened once they took Jerusalem. They wholesale massacred the city's Jewish inhabitants as well as the Muslim defenders.

For all the talk about 'Judaeo-Christian civilisation' we often hear, the history of Jews at the hands of European Christianity hasn't exactly been the happiest.

The following is not specifically directed at you FTA but here goes

its fairly accepted that Isis aren't Islamic,they are a death cult
Religions too have always been powerful,very powerful organisations which are unfortunately run by humans
Humans can do mad things sometimes and be convinced they are right and convince enough of their members that they are right
That's the very nature of human kind

In today's society where freedom of information is the norm,with the Internet and satellite tv for the last 30+ years bringing that information into our living rooms,the ability of some people controlling organised religion's to perpetuate extreme forms of group thought is waning,certainly in the mainstream religions
Religion is not God and God is not religion
Religion uses God to teach whatever version of the way you live your life as taught by the particular religions higherarchy
Most of us now know to discard this in favour of our own view on how things should be,be it total rejection via atheism or ala carte Catholicism/Protestantism etc

Personally similarly, I've also a difficulty with scriptures,wrote and passed down and interpretations of them over 1000's of years as meanings and the true story will have been watered down or embellished,who knows,over that incredible period of time,such that any number of unknown loopy people's thoughts could be being promoted

Thirdly,life is a huge evolution as is opinion ~hence half or more of the traditions applied thousands of years ago just aren't acceptable now making the Old Testament especially and a lot of the new one massively outdated
Now back to basic principles,anyone who believes in God can't deny that God has made it this way
The delusion begins and ends there,the delusion being not believing that your maker is responsible for the way things are,then and now,including us evolving for the better(mostly)
Of course I'm boiling it down to what I believe,and ignoring wars,deaths murders and the reason for death cults like Isis etc
My belief on them is they're all part of the challenge of the place we are in,we need to deal with them,they'll never go away I think
We don't know why we are given this challenge,we might not know Untill we die or never,depending on your belief


Here endeth my lesson for today

FTA69

its fairly accepted that Isis aren't Islamic,they are a death cult

I don't get this point to be honest. The Muslims I work with seem to just stick their heads in the sand regarding this crowd and just say "they aren't real Muslims because the Qu'ran is anti killing civilians" and to be honest that's b*llocks. Like it or not, they have emanated from an Islamic tradition and profess the Islamic faith, albeit in a very unrepresentative, nasty and generally f*cked up fashion.

As someone said earlier, Christ himself was generally a passive guy and preached a good message. It didn't prevent his followers and adherents later immersing themselves in slavery, bloodshed, war, persecution and utter corruption. I doubt that Jesus would have agreed with enslaving the Amerindians, but I still wouldn't contend that the Papal-backed Spanish who did so weren't Christians and just move on from the subject.

The unfortunate reality is that in the Islamic world there are some pretty reactionary opinions and a degree of fanaticism. (Something many in the left like to pretend doesn't exist for some reason) When these are coupled with a political vacuum in a war situation (Libya, Iraq etc) loopers like these get a chance to gain traction. While the vast majority of Muslims are decent people who generally contribute to their host countries and are a peaceful, normal bunch; there are a small few who aren't and they need watching. Likewise the concept of a secular state should be absolute in the fields of education, government and everything else.

conorhal

FTA69 wrote: »

Yawn. I've no time for Islam at all; I think Islam and all organised religion generally leads to backward thinking, negativity and prejudice. However, I also have the common sense to acknowledge the fact that religious people are a reality in today's world and more often than not, they're decent folk who have generally the same desires and needs as anyone else. I include Muslim people in that, the same way I include Catholics and born-agains and whoever else.

Likewise if you're going to lecture me on the history of the Crusades, then read up on what happened once they took Jerusalem. They wholesale massacred the city's Jewish inhabitants as well as the Muslim defenders.

For all the talk about 'Judaeo-Christian civilisation' we often hear, the history of Jews at the hands of European Christianity hasn't exactly been the happiest.

Theres a bang of desperation about poster that has to reach back into the middle ages to indulge in some whataboutery.

SoapMcTavish

Islam needs a Pope type figure - to guide, change and integrate it into the modern world. Like the RC did with Vatican 1 & 2 councils.

Without a church hierarchy - We get lots of crazy interpreters of holy books and the madness we see across the middle east ....

kstand

Zebra3 wrote: »

Hilarious rewriting of history there.

"Time for the Arabs to sort out their own problems".

So many Arab states had their borders drawn by Western imperial powers. Most of the dictatorships (including Saudi Arabia where the state beheads people) are backed by the West.

If anyone really wants to understand what's going on in the Middle East, read "The Great War For Civilisation" by Robert Fisk.

It'll make those who fall for the American war industry's constant kill call cop on to themselves.

Let them deal with it in the Middle East - what good would a western coalition do going in to resolve the cancer that is IS, the pedophile state? It was be used as propaganda. Let those odious people in Saudi solve it.

WheatenBriar

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't get this point to be honest. The Muslims I work with seem to just stick their heads in the sand regarding this crowd and just say "they aren't real Muslims because the Qu'ran is anti killing civilians" and to be honest that's b*llocks. Like it or not, they have emanated from an Islamic tradition and profess the Islamic faith, albeit in a very unrepresentative, nasty and generally f*cked up fashion.

Its not B*llox,it's just human nature
Some Humans are just open to indoctrination with what is effectively an abomination of what most fair thinking people would interpret from whatever it is being used as a basis for the indoctrination

As someone said earlier, Christ himself was generally a passive guy and preached a good message. It didn't prevent his followers and adherents later immersing themselves in slavery, bloodshed, war, persecution and utter corruption. I doubt that Jesus would have agreed with enslaving the Amerindians, but I still wouldn't contend that the Papal-backed Spanish who did so weren't Christians and just move on from the subject.

The unfortunate reality is that in the Islamic world there are some pretty reactionary opinions and a degree of fanaticism. (Something many in the left like to pretend doesn't exist for some reason) When these are coupled with a political vacuum in a war situation (Libya, Iraq etc) loopers like these get a chance to gain traction. While the vast majority of Muslims are decent people who generally contribute to their host countries and are a peaceful, normal bunch; there are a small few who aren't and they need watching. Likewise the concept of a secular state should be absolute in the fields of education, government and everything else.

Thats broadly in line with my thoughts in my last post
Except secular isn't a seal either(but it's a start),you could still have a teacher fill a vulnerable head full of rubbish in a non religious school
Anyone teaching has great power that way

FTA69

conorhal wrote: »

Theres a bang of desperation about poster that has to reach back into the middle ages to indulge in some whataboutery.

Don't be silly. I was responding to a poster who was saying how Christianity is peaceful because Jesus was a lovely fella altogether compared to Muhammad. It didn't stop Christianity from justifying some pretty horrible sh*t over the years.

My point is that both religions have bloody pasts and presents, usually on the part of fanatics who are rejected by almost everybody. If you think that ISIS represents the average Muslim you're codding yourself.

FTA69

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Its not B*llox,it's just human nature
Some Humans are just open to indoctrination with what is effectively an abomination of what most fair thinking people would interpret from whatever it is being used as a basis for the indoctrination

ISIS are Muslims and come from an Islamic tradition. Simply saying "they're not Muslims" and sticking your fingers in your ears is dishonest b*llocks and unfortunately that's what some Muslims do when confronted with anything unpalatable that comes about due to the Islamic religion.

Zack Morris

FTA69 wrote: »

ISIS are Muslims and come from an Islamic tradition. Simply saying "they're not Muslims" and sticking your fingers in your ears is dishonest b*llocks and unfortunately that's what some Muslims do when confronted with anything unpalatable that comes about due to the Islamic religion.

Agree. If an Irishman blows up a loyalist politician's office in Belfast, he is still an Irishman. Nothing will change that.

ISIS use verses from the Qur'an and the Hadith to justify their behaviour. WheatenBriar should probably read these books before blindly defending a religion he clearly knows nothing about.

cruasder777

FTA69 wrote: »

Yawn. I've no time for Islam at all; I think Islam and all organised religion generally leads to backward thinking, negativity and prejudice. However, I also have the common sense to acknowledge the fact that religious people are a reality in today's world and more often than not, they're decent folk who have generally the same desires and needs as anyone else. I include Muslim people in that, the same way I include Catholics and born-agains and whoever else.

Likewise if you're going to lecture me on the history of the Crusades, then read up on what happened once they took Jerusalem. They wholesale massacred the city's Jewish inhabitants as well as the Muslim defenders.

For all the talk about 'Judaeo-Christian civilisation' we often hear, the history of Jews at the hands of European Christianity hasn't exactly been the happiest.

Defenders ? You mean the Muslims who invaded Europe and came 150kms from Paris before being turned defeated, who invaded Spain, Sudan, Syria, Egypt, Malta etc. The Crusaders had every right to take back the Holy land from invasion.

Poor old Islam, its all Bush and Blairs fault according to the left :rolleyes:

FTA69

cruasder777 wrote: »

Defenders ? You mean the Muslims who invaded Europe and came 150kms from Paris before being turned defeated, who invaded Spain, Sudan, Syria, Egypt, Malta etc. The Crusaders had every right to take back the Holy land from invasion.

Poor old Islam, its all Bush and Blairs fault according to the left :rolleyes:

Yeah. The Muslims who were, you know, defending the city from siege. Why did the crusaders kill all the Jews when they entered the city?

Shurimgreat

The essential point some people keep missing is that Mohammad set the example for these thugs.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Ki...ed_by_Muhammad

They are not doing anything Mohammad didn't do.

They are 7th century barbarians. There is no equivacation with Christianity. These fanatics want to recreate the world of Mohammad to the letter.

conorhal

FTA69 wrote: »

Don't be silly. I was responding to a poster who was saying how Christianity is peaceful because Jesus was a lovely fella altogether compared to Muhammad. It didn't stop Christianity from justifying some pretty horrible sh*t over the years.

My point is that both religions have bloody pasts and presents, usually on the part of fanatics who are rejected by almost everybody. If you think that ISIS represents the average Muslim you're codding yourself.

Well I don't think that either religion can be described as having a spotless record, the point people were trying to make is that 'Christians' that go around murdering for their faith do so in contravention to the teachings of their spiritual leader, while islamists tend to do so with his blessing. It seems that when you listen to what the 'moderates' from the religion of peace have to say it doesn't often sound that different to the extremists. In fact the difference between a moderate and extremist, when it comes to Islam is often down to the a difference of opinion on how to achieve the same aim.

Shurimgreat

FTA69 wrote: »

Don't be silly. I was responding to a poster who was saying how Christianity is peaceful because Jesus was a lovely fella altogether compared to Muhammad. It didn't stop Christianity from justifying some pretty horrible sh*t over the years.

My point is that both religions have bloody pasts and presents, usually on the part of fanatics who are rejected by almost everybody. If you think that ISIS represents the average Muslim you're codding yourself.

You are missing the point. When Christians committed massacres and murders they were acting against the teachings of christianity and example of their main leader Jesus.

ISIS on the other hand are following the example of their main leader.

The laws of Islam are encased in Sharia Law - It's a horrendous code of laws. Just a few weeks ago a woman was beheaded in Saudi Arabia under Sharia Law. Women and men can and are regularly stoned to death for adultry. Cutting off of hands is a common punishment.