ISIS are pure evil.

Playboy

keanosbeard wrote: »

Fourteen hundred years of Islam, Bhuddism and Christianity suggests otherwise.

This lunacy has shown a high correlation with Islam.

There are periods of history and areas of the world where there was no " Western Intervention " yet this lunacy occurred and occours.

The West is not to blame for the bad bits of Islam. Islam is totally responsible.

hahahahhahahahahah ... really you think Islams hands are less bloody than Christians? Please you are just too obvious a troll now.

keanosbeard

Quite how Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism in present day China and The Philippines us the fault of the Decadent West I don't know.

But that is digressing.

This thread is concerned with Islamic fundamentalist lunacy in Iraq and Syria.

Schreeching waycism and personal insults and paranoid accusations does noting to actually disprove what I wrote. I didnt even " warp " anything,

IrishTrajan

Playboy wrote: »

So what fact am I arguing against? Enlighten me sir.. Given you previous propaganda piece on the origins of Israel I'm looking forward to your unbiased observations. Camp David was a good deal was it?

I gave you an unbiased account as to why Israel acts the way it does, and that giving Palestine statehood wouldn't ease the Arab world's hatred of the Jewish... And no you try to use that as some petty ad hominem to discredit my commentary.

Please, take your head out of your ass.

RandomName2

Playboy wrote: »

No one is saying it has nothing to do with Islam, of course they do. But the claim that they arose in some kind of vacuum spontaneously is ridiculous. Fundamentalism such as this is a consequence of the West's interventions in the region. If they happened to be Buddhists or Christians then we would see a variant of the same lunacy.

Well of course ISIS are partially a result of Western interference. If Assad (as a leader who ultimately falls into the secular/military type of Middle Eastern ruler) had been able to crush the rebellion in Syria quickly, ISIS wouldn't have been able to fully emerge and would have to work, at most, as a guerrila group (and as their primary aim is the declaration and expansion of a caliphate, would have been far less appealing). I can see how the West didn't really want to see this happen, but nonetheless the result of their aiding the rebellion generated the power vacuum.

However you wouldn't have seen the same sort of group were the area Christian or Buddhist. We have seen bat-sh*t crazy groups in Western countries; but they tend to be either nationalist or, less commonly, socialist in nature. Christianity seemed to get most of its madness out in the Wars of Religion. And Buddhists practice self-immolation when particularly outraged.

wretcheddomain

If Western foreign policy is responsible for extremism, why is this phenomenon almost exclusive to Islam?

Take Grenada, for example. This is a Roman Catholic majority island that was invaded by the US in October 1983. The question is - where were all the Roman Catholic extremists? Why didn't Roman Catholics blow themselves up in the United States? Why didn't Roman Catholic extremists behead American citizens?

The US has a history of invading Roman Catholic countries not limited to Grenada - such as the Philippines for example.

The fact is that this phenomenon is almost unique to Islam. And there are good reasons for it too.

Playboy

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Stop ignoring my question.

You said fundamentalism is caused by Western intervention.

Please explain Boko Haram in Nigeria.

Until you answer this, your point about Western foreign policy as the sole cause of extremism will be called into question.

Sorry I missed your post earlier amongst the others. Boko Haram are Wahabbists no? Where is Wahhabism exported from? When were they founded? 2002 was it? Thats soon after a couple of major events in world history but I cant quite remember what they were? Help me out? Also are Boko Haram exclusive to Nigeria or are they active in other African countries? No they West never went to Africa did we? Its not like the French, Portuguese, British, Germans, Belgians etc didnt absolutely rape that continent and its not like the French continue to?

IrishTrajan

Playboy wrote: »

hahahahhahahahahah ... really you think Islams hands are less bloody than Christians? Please you are just too obvious a troll now.

Christianity's conflicts were a mix of religious and political. The Thirty Years' War was about trying to steadfast the power of independent Kingdoms and create hegemonic power in central Europe (France, Austria, largely). Hell, Gustavus Adolphus only invaded when the Protestants were close to losing, because he wanted to keep a strong Protestant nation to his south, to secure his borders so that his cousin in (catholic) Poland couldn't contest the power of Sweden.

I've not really read about the Crusades, or the Inquisition, so I can't speak on them.

But you know what happens when Christians in the West become "extremist"? They picket the funerals of soldiers and hate on gays. You know what Islamic Extremists do? They kill the soldiers so that the Christians have someone to picket. They shoot people who draw pictures of their prophet, and they behead gays.

nokia69

Playboy wrote: »

hahahahhahahahahah ... really you think Islams hands are less bloody than Christians? Please you are just too obvious a troll now.

it all depends on how you do the body count

you will no doubt say Hitler and Stalin were christians

Playboy

IrishTrajan wrote: »

I gave you an unbiased account as to why Israel acts the way it does, and that giving Palestine statehood wouldn't ease the Arab world's hatred of the Jewish... And no you try to use that as some petty ad hominem to discredit my commentary.

Please, take your head out of your ass.

You gave an account of Israel's origins straight out of an Israeli school book. Totally deluded nonsense. You will find sir that its your head that is quite severely inserted in your anus. The fact that you think (or claim I cant believe you actually think it) that you are unbiased is truly entertaining on a saturday afternoon

Playboy

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well of course ISIS are partially a result of Western interference. If Assad (as a leader who ultimately falls into the secular/military type of Middle Eastern ruler) had been able to crush the rebellion in Syria quickly, ISIS wouldn't have been able to fully emerge and would have to work, at most, as a guerrila group (and as their primary aim is the declaration and expansion of a caliphate, would have been far less appealing). I can see how the West didn't really want to see this happen, but nonetheless the result of their aiding the rebellion generated the power vacuum.

However you wouldn't have seen the same sort of group were the area Christian or Buddhist. We have seen bat-sh*t crazy groups in Western countries; but they tend to be either nationalist or, less commonly, socialist in nature. Christianity seemed to get most of its madness out in the Wars of Religion. And Buddhists practice self-immolation when particularly outraged.

No insane Christian groups roaming Africa then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

Playboy

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Christianity's conflicts were a mix of religious and political. The Thirty Years' War was about trying to steadfast the power of independent Kingdoms and create hegemonic power in central Europe (France, Austria, largely). Hell, Gustavus Adolphus only invaded when the Protestants were close to losing, because he wanted to keep a strong Protestant nation to his south, to secure his borders so that his cousin in (catholic) Poland couldn't contest the power of Sweden.

I've not really read about the Crusades, or the Inquisition, so I can't speak on them.

But you know what happens when Christians in the West become "extremist"? They picket the funerals of soldiers and hate on gays. You know what Islamic Extremists do? They kill the soldiers so that the Christians have someone to picket. They shoot people who draw pictures of their prophet, and they behead gays.

What about the conquest of the world? We planted a few flags around the place you know in the name of good ol Jesus

Playboy

nokia69 wrote: »

it all depends on how you do the body count

you will no doubt say Hitler and Stalin were christians

Oh we dont need those two to be way out in front

wretcheddomain

Playboy wrote: »

Sorry I missed your post earlier amongst the others. Boko Haram are Wahabbists no? Where is Wahhabism exported from? When were they founded? 2002 was it? Thats soon after a couple of major events in world history but I cant quite remember what they were? Help me out? Also are Boko Haram exclusive to Nigeria or are they active in other African countries? No they West never went to Africa did we? Its not like the French, Portuguese, British, Germans, Belgians etc didnt absolutely rape that continent and its not like the French continue to?

Read this:

Mohammed Yusuf founded the sect that became known as Boko Haram in 2002 in Maiduguri, the capital of the northeastern state of Borno. He established a religious complex and school that attracted poor Muslim families from across Nigeria and neighbouring countries. The center had the political goal of creating an Islamic state, and became a recruiting ground for jihadis. By denouncing the police and state corruption, Yusuf attracted followers from unemployed youths.[36][57][62][63] He is reported to have used the existing infrastructure in Borno of the Izala Society (Jama'at Izalatil Bidiawa Iqamatus Sunnah), a popular conservative Islamic sect, to recruit members, before breaking away to form his own faction. The Izala were originally welcomed into government, along with people sympathetic to Yusuf. Boko Haram conducted its operations more or less peacefully during the first seven years of its existence, withdrawing from society into remote northeastern areas. The government repeatedly ignored warnings about the increasingly militant character of the organization.[37][64] The Council of Ulama advised the government and the Nigerian Television Authority not to broadcast Yusuf's preaching, but their warnings were ignored. Yusuf's arrest elevated him to hero status. Borno's Deputy Governor Alhaji Dibal has claimed that the al-Qaeda had ties with Boko Haram, but broke them when they decided that Yusuf was an unreliable person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram#Boko_Haram_founding_and_early_years

This is purely related to Nigerian politics and civil society - with his ideal as far back as 2002 (before the Iraq War) to create an Islamic State.

At that time, he was associated with jihadis, yes, but not of the ISIS variety - that would come much later.

You have moved the goalposts from Western intervention - which usually refers to the Iraq War, support for Israel and so on - to British colonialism in Nigeria which ended in 1960.

It was due to military dictatorships and repression of the northern majority by Nigerians that resulted in rebellion from the north. This manifested itself in many ways, not least in Mohammad Yusuf's Boko Haram.

Let's not forget the Ottoman Empire was a colonial empire as well, but nobody likes to remember Islamic colonisation, do they?

Oldenboard

"ISIS are pure evil" - finally a statement we can all agree on.

RandomName2

Playboy wrote: »

What about the conquest of the world? We planted a few flags around the place you know in the name of good ol Jesus

Not really. That was only a small aspect to mission de civilisatrice; and more an excuse than anything else. Certainly not a cause guerre.

Playboy wrote: »

No insane Christian groups roaming Africa then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army

Pish. Exception that proves the rule. It's just your normal (or garden) African rebel group with the badge of Christianity placed on top. Suppose armed Communist doesn't seem so appealing since the fall of the USSR.

Roger Hassenforder

Tony EH wrote: »

SOOOO much wrong in one sentence.

Hilarious.


:pac:

go on, elaborate...

Roger Hassenforder

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Stop ignoring my question.

You said fundamentalism is caused by Western intervention.

Please explain Boko Haram in Nigeria.

Until you answer this, your point about Western foreign policy as the sole cause of extremism will be called into question.

add Al-Shabaab

keanosbeard

Typical reactions to (suspected) criticism of Islam, 101

* Accusations of waycism/bigotry/islamophobia - CHECK !
* Blame the Decadent West / Great Shaytan - CHECK !
* Moral equivalence - CHECK !
* Namecheck the Lords Resistance Army - CHECK!

I give you 8 out of 10.

You forgot the Jooos

IrishTrajan

Playboy wrote: »

Sorry I missed your post earlier amongst the others. Boko Haram are Wahabbists no? Where is Wahhabism exported from? When were they founded? 2002 was it? Thats soon after a couple of major events in world history but I cant quite remember what they were? Help me out? Also are Boko Haram exclusive to Nigeria or are they active in other African countries? No they West never went to Africa did we? Its not like the French, Portuguese, British, Germans, Belgians etc didnt absolutely rape that continent and its not like the French continue to?

They're Wahhabi/Salafi Jihadist. Salafi was the earliest term for "Muslim", Wahhabi is merely an ultra-conservative Sunni-sect. Your argument about its origins merely strengthen's your opposition's argument.

Also as to "where" it came from, Saudi Arabia, 1932. Ibn-Saud controlled two Kingdoms (Hejaz and Nejd) after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, not a Western Empire, but an Islamic one. He preached Wahhabism and wanted to bring Wahhabism to British Jordan, Kuwait and Iraq. It became Saudi Arabia in 1932, after a civil war that was caused by religious factors.

The West didn't even have a hand in the mess that is Saudi objectives, it was a completely Islamic one.

"The Europeans are the reason Islam is spreading in Africa".

The Africans sold other Africans to the Europeans... It was just that the Dutch figured it was easier to take the land for their own than to keep buying slaves. The rest of Europe followed.

Yes, Europe did rape that continent. After it had raped itself and shown the Europeans that it was more cost effective to take the slaves by force... Or did you think Europeans invented warfare?

Also, the French are not in Mali due to imperialism. They were asked for help by the Mali Government. Don't be such a liberal cuckold.

IrishTrajan

Playboy wrote: »

What about the conquest of the world? We planted a few flags around the place you know in the name of good ol Jesus

Motivated by gold moreso than spreading religion.

Britain only went to the Americas after Spain and Portugal found gold. It was very much a zero sum game in those days. It was just easier to control the local populace is they believed the same thing you did. From religion to politics, it was just easier to spread religion than a political view.

Wurzelbert

Playboy wrote: »

hahahahhahahahahah ... really you think Islams hands are less bloody than Christians? Please you are just too obvious a troll now.

nobody is innocent in this world, yet that’s completely irrelevant in all this...

Nodin

keanosbeard wrote: »

Typical reactions to (suspected) criticism of Islam, 101

* Accusations of waycism/bigotry/islamophobia - CHECK !
* Blame the Decadent West / Great Shaytan - CHECK !
* Moral equivalence - CHECK !
* Namecheck the Lords Resistance Army - CHECK!

I give you 8 out of 10.

You forgot the Jooos

Full of venom today eh? I'd say you're on that French coffee.

Roger Hassenforder

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-donates-le-aoife-to-malta-to-help-with-refugee-rescue-in-mediterranean-1.2109719

My dad says that we bought her out of EEC money. Just paying her back.

Things might not be going to well with Aoife, Maltese smell a rat




http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/active-talks-ongoing-with-malta-over-le-aoife-despite-vessel-branded-junk-31010648.html

Wurzelbert

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Things might not be going to well with Aoife, Maltese smell a rat




http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/active-talks-ongoing-with-malta-over-le-aoife-despite-vessel-branded-junk-31010648.html

erm, was this after all just to avoid scrapping costs? i hope not, but that would be super embarrassing...

Zack Morris

Playboy wrote: »

What about the conquest of the world? We planted a few flags around the place you know in the name of good ol Jesus

Wow, so much stupidity in such a short post.

1. Not everyone here is a Christian. I'm an atheist, so Christians don't represent me.
2. Christianity's past does not enable Muslims to carry out the same practice today because the vast majority of today's Christians don't agree modern religious imperialism.
3. Blaming modern European's for their ancestor's past is nonsense; otherwise, we should be imprisoning every relative of every criminal for solely being related to a criminal, including you, if you have any criminal ancestors in your family tree.
4. Your post is nothing more than whataboutery, which is a fallacy, so the argument is an instant fail. Pointing at another problem does not negate the original problem.

Playboy

Zack Morris wrote: »

Wow, so much stupidity in such a short post.

1. Not everyone here is a Christian. I'm an atheist, so Christians don't represent me.
2. Christianity's past does not enable Muslims to carry out the same practice today because the vast majority of today's Christians don't agree modern religious imperialism.
3. Blaming modern European's for their ancestor's past is nonsense; otherwise, we should be imprisoning every relative of every criminal for solely being related to a criminal, including you, if you have any criminal ancestors in your family tree.
4. Your post is nothing more than whataboutery, which is a fallacy, so the argument is an instant fail. Pointing at another problem does not negate the original problem.

what is sad is that you cannot see the irony of your post. :rolleyes:

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Muzzie, Muzzie, Muzzie, Out, Out, Out chant was going in my local chip shop last night. Young 16/17 boys full of bravado flexing. I wonder what they'd do if they were planted into ISIS territory. Crusaders, men of honour. No doubt that they'd cry for their mothers.

Tugboats

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Muzzie, Muzzie, Muzzie, Out, Out, Out chant was going in my local chip shop last night. Young 16/17 boys full of bravado flexing. I wonder what they'd do if they were planted into ISIS territory. Crusaders, men of honour. No doubt that they'd cry for their mothers.

Did you confront them or did you wait to log onto a message board to tell the story?

Aussie Sean

Tugboats wrote: »

Did you confront them or did you wait to log onto a message board to tell the story?

In fairness would you have???

Sean

Tugboats

Aussie Sean wrote: »

In fairness would you have???

Sean

No but i wouldnt be coming onto an ISIS are evil thread talking about teenagers in my local chippy who were singing songs about muslims