Boss refused to pay me €20 overtime!

Billy86

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

My advice is don't let the door hit them on the way out, travelling will be good for a person with an attitude like that. They will have their eyes opened when they see how things are done abroad.

I got to see how things are done abroad alright, was making around $60,000 after tax in Australia and played a major role in a start up of 20 odd people move up to 150 employees by the time I left 9 months later. Would have been getting a promotion and a pay bump if my sponsorship went through, but I didn't have enough experience in that area for the DIAC to approve it (but my employer still tried as hard as they could because of my productivity, and spent thousands of dollars in doing so). Because in Australia if you work hard, you actually get rewarded for it, which is why it isn't out of place to see people in their very early 20s in management positions if they are able for it.

Actually, Irish people tend to have a great reputation for our work ethic and productivity both over there and in the US. I'll fill you in on Canada when I get there at the end of the month.

VanDinkle

Many advocates of "The beatings will continue until morale improves" here Lol.

Good luck OP with your new job...

shane9689

aaaand this is why i don't ever want to end up in a 9-5 office job...so many bitter sihts that seem disillusioned with how crap it is and how its "expected"...its only expected because you accept it bending over....you made your bed etc etc.... OP **** the old boss over, you have evidence in those texts, get him to admit his wrong doing over text then use it in court...squeeze him back for every penny then move on

Tail Docker

yes there wrote: »

Haha, you have just handed rhe opposition the win with your defence. I hope you are not in the legal profession.

So they get the €20?. Whoopee. Also, what defence again? I missed that bit.

TwoShedsJackson

Tail Docker wrote: »

I'm guessing it's the whole Boards PC thing that is stopping more people from posting on this thread, because IRL, I see thousands of people working hours extra unpaid every day without a word about it. One company I deal with has several hundred employees that finish officially at 5 but many are there till close to 7 every evening, unpaid but fully expected to be done to get the work completed. Also, €20 and it's gone this far? Someones having a laugh.

Sounds like a badly managed company. The employees should not work an extra ten hours a week for nothing - the company need to hire more employees it sounds like.

Of course management are probably too short-sighted to realise this, and just go '**** it we'll squeeze them for whatever we can get, then get some new lot in', rather than realising that if you treat your employees with a bit of respect you'll get more and better work out of them overall.

Gongoozler

My boss said to me the other day, why are you still here, it's 8 minutes past 5, go home. I was the only person still left and I was on my way out. As was she. I've been there 5 months, and already there's a chance of going up, which, as I've told her, is a position I'm not interested in, and have talked a little about what future options might be for me.

You don't need to work 45 hours a week and only get paid for 39. It's poor management in part to blame for this, and why should the workers be the ones to shoulder that. You're a fool if you're working extra without being compensated, for someone else to benefit.

Anyway I'm out of this thread, as I don't have patience for arguing with blind sightedness.

Vinz Mesrine

You should try working where I do

We are expected in the shop 10-15 minutes early for EVERY shift to count our till and get up to scratch with what happened last night/earlier in the day, we don't get paid for this.

If my shift ends at 9 when the shop closes, I could easily be still in the shop at 9.30, we don't get paid for this.

Thursday evenings before Christmas, the shop closes at 10, last year I recall being there until 1 am, guess what??? We didn't get paid for that either.

Shiraz 4.99

OP, this happened to me years ago, I gave up fighting with the boss & starting robbing from the till.
Problem is that management changed & even though I got paid fairly I still robbed the odd 20 here & there.
Anyway I never got caught so I realise this helps no one.
I hope we've all learned something here.

miss no stars

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

You should try working where I do

We are expected in the shop 10-15 minutes early for EVERY shift to count our till and get up to scratch with what happened last night/earlier in the day, we don't get paid for this.

If my shift ends at 9 when the shop closes, I could easily be still in the shop at 9.30, we don't get paid for this.

Thursday evenings before Christmas, the shop closes at 10, last year I recall being there until 1 am, guess what??? We didn't get paid for that either.

That's exploitation. Simple as. I'm not going to say you should put the foot down or leave your job over it because it's not that simple - you need your job. But that's what employers like yours are banking on and that's how they're able to get what sounds like an extra hour unpaid out of all their staff every day of the week. Think how much money that actually is that they're saving.

It'd be nice to see some regulation of low paid jobs. Whatever about salaried jobs where there are actual prospects of promotion and furthering your career, someone working in a shop should be paid for the hours they're there and not there for hours they aren't being paid.

bucketybuck

If one of my staff came looking overtime for doing 10 minutes extra they would soon be told where to go.

I'll look after my staff, no problem with them running out to the bank, or taking holidays at short notice, or taking all the time they need for emergencies etc, etc. But the type of employee who wants overtime just for staying an extra 10 minutes isn't really worth a **** to anybody.

I'd rather get in some lad who is prepared to get stuck in. That lad I'll look after and do my best to keep, people like the OP can just jog on.

suicide_circus

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well like I've said before it's all about attitude.

It is indeed, and yours makes you come across like a fcuking bellend. Your industrial revolution style of management is laughable and not fit for purpose in a developed 21st century nation. If you were talking about well paid motivated professionals you might have a point but we're discussing minimum wage shop workers. Get a grip, Rockefeller.

cournioni

bucketybuck wrote: »

If one of my staff came looking overtime for doing 10 minutes extra they would soon be told where to go.

I'll look after my staff, no problem with them running out to the bank, or taking holidays at short notice, or taking all the time they need for emergencies etc, etc. But the type of employee who wants overtime just for staying an extra 10 minutes isn't really worth a **** to anybody.

I'd rather get in some lad who is prepared to get stuck in. That lad I'll look after and do my best to keep, people like the OP can just jog on.

Would you let one of your staff away with being 15 minutes late at the expense of another of your employees?

Ghost Buster

kfallon wrote: »

Jesus......

No. He was a semi mythical Middle Eastern carpenter and political activist

bucketybuck

cournioni wrote: »

Would you let one of your staff away with being 15 minutes late at the expense of another of your employees?

Repeatedly? No, he would get the metaphorical boot up his hole.

But in this instance we haven't got both sides of the story, there could be reasons behind the lateness that the owner/manager is either trying to facilitate or to sort out. Maybe the manager is already taking steps to get rid of the Indian guy, or maybe the Indian guy has personal problems that the manager is trying to be sympathetic to.

If so the last thing the manager needed is one of his staff making an issue out of an extra ten minutes work here and there, its instances like that at times like that that show you who your good staff are.

SettingSun

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaand this is why i don't ever want to end up in a 9-5 office job...so many bitter sihts that seem disillusioned with how crap it is and how its "expected"...its only expected because you accept it bending over....you made your bed etc etc.... OP **** the old boss over, you have evidence in those texts, get him to admit his wrong doing over text then use it in court...squeeze him back for every penny then move on

Too many children on this thread with false expectations of the real world.

JBRowan

If you were always working a few mins late to help cover than he owes you

cournioni

bucketybuck wrote: »

Repeatedly? No, he would get the metaphorical boot up his hole.

But in this instance we haven't got both sides of the story, there could be reasons behind the lateness that the owner/manager is either trying to facilitate or to sort out. Maybe the manager is already taking steps to get rid of the Indian guy, or maybe the Indian guy has personal problems that the manager is trying to be sympathetic to.

If so the last thing the manager needed is one of his staff making an issue out of an extra ten minutes work here and there, its instances like that at times like that that show you who your good staff are.

If the manager is trying to facilitate or sort out, then the employee working the extra 15 minutes per day should be compensated for that.

An extra 15 minutes per day can build up to one hell of alot of overtime. Whats fair is fair, and those who put in the work need to be rewarded for it.

SettingSun

Should the employee be compensated for all those extra minutes they worked? By the letter of the law, probably.

Would I hire or promote someone with such a work ethic? Probably not.

Being flexible and having a good work ethic will stand to you in the long run.

SettingSun

cournioni wrote: »

An extra 15 minutes per day can build up to one hell of alot of overtime. Whats fair is fair, and those who put in the work need to be rewarded for it.

You're right, fair is fair. If I employed the OP any sort of christmas bonus or pay increase would certainly be hampered by this sort of attitude.

bucketybuck

cournioni wrote: »

If the manager is trying to facilitate or sort out, then the employee working the extra 15 minutes per day should be compensated for that.

An extra 15 minutes per day can build up to one hell of alot of overtime. Whats fair is fair, and those who put in the work need to be rewarded for it.

Like I say, its an indicator of mentality. I would hope that my employees will act in the businesses interests and they will be rewarded for that. I'd like to be secure that when I'm not there the staff will still work hard and will still make sure things run smoothly.

A good employee will have no problem hanging on an extra ten minutes when its needed, and it probably wouldn't even occur to them to submit an overtime form. That same mentality means that they will get stuck in when its needed, and that they will take care in their work.

In my experience the guy who sticks an overtime claim in for ten minutes work is less likely to see the business interests as important, he's only out for number one. Thats his right of course but its also my right to have the staff I want so as I said, that guy can jog on.

sammy37

SettingSun wrote: »

Should the employee be compensated for all those extra minutes they worked? By the letter of the law, probably.

Would I hire or promote someone with such a work ethic? Probably not.

Being flexible and having a good work ethic will stand to you in the long run.

By being flexible you mean work for free and the only one it will stand to in the long term is the employer and if it is only 20 euro why not just pay it.

Barely There

The sense of entitlement from the Celtic Tiger cubs is, as always, highly amusing.

Most private sector workers I know frequently work unpaid overtime to meet deadlines.
If you had your hand stuck out everytime it happened you wouldn't last long in my industry anyway.

bucketybuck

sammy37 wrote: »

By being flexible you mean work for free and the only one it will stand to in the long term is the employer and if it is only 20 euro why not just pay it.

There are a lot of ways a employer can be flexible towards an employee, and its naive to not be aware of that.

The guy that stays on ten minutes late? If he needs to take a late lunch for a bank appointment, no problem. If he calls once in a blue moon because he's hungover and can't make it in? He's an arse but he will be fine because he earned that leeway. Needs to take an holiday at short notice? No problem.

The other guy? The guy that doesn't go above and beyond? Well, fair is fair, that guy can work to the letter of his contract, good and bad.

drumswan

Barely There wrote: »

The sense of entitlement from the Celtic Tiger cubs is, as always, highly amusing.

Most private sector workers I know frequently work unpaid overtime to meet deadlines.
If you had your hand stuck out everytime it happened you wouldn't last long in my industry anyway.

Thats sounds great, we should all retrain to work in your industry where we can work for free. Do we need to go to college to get skilled up to give our labour away for nothing? Im very excited here

Ash.J.Williams

haven't heard of overtime in years!

FTA69

Tail Docker wrote: »

One company I deal with has several hundred employees that finish officially at 5 but many are there till close to 7 every evening, unpaid but fully expected to be done to get the work completed.

That's wrong like. If a company is profitable they can afford to pay their workers for the time they work instead of bullying them into free labour under the threat of the sack or a poor reference. What we are seeing throughout society at the moment is a race to the bottom in terms of pay and conditions.

In Britain the minimum wage is a poverty wage where even after 50 hours work a week you're so poor you're entitled to state assistance. We have also seen the rise of zero hours contracts which push people into a cycle of insecure work and poverty and on top of that we now have people working longer and harder than ever before while not even getting paid for it.

Inequality across the Western world has risen hugely and that's far from a positive thing. The fact that people are eagerly defending exploitation is bizarre; they've either internalised this nonsense to the point they're happy to be exploited or they hope to get into a position to f*ck over others for their own personal gain.

Neither are admirable traits.

(Also regards the €20; the OP needs to move on really. If they were owed thousands in back pay that would be a different story but while getting caught a few times to work 20 minutes extra is a balls, it isn't worth legal action.)

Captain Flaps

When I worked in hourly-paid retail I was nearly chased out the door at the end of my shift because my employer (big name chain pharmacy) didn't want to have to pay me extra (their policy, not mine; I wouldn't have asked for it but I would have raised the issue with the boss if it became a frequent thing). On the rare occasion someone was late or I was held back for longer than 5 minutes the manager made sure I either got time in lieu or a few euro extra on the pay stub. Attitude goes both ways - I never had a problem hanging back or working on until I was finished because I knew that my manager/employer respected me enough to value that fact that I was there beyond what I was expected to do. I didn't give a **** about the extra few quid, knowing that they weren't taking me for granted was enough.

Now that I'm in a professional, salaried job I'll work on until whatever I'm doing is done, within reason - including coming in the odd weekend day or staying on late into the evening for special projects. It's pointless comparing that to someone in an hourly job though.

Holding someone's reference over their head for not working for free beyond the terms of their contract is scumbag behaviour of the highest order. If someone has performed the job well to the terms of their contract, not been late etc, they should be entitled to an honest reference saying that you'd have no problem recommending them for a job (which, if they've done the job they were hired for without any issues, you should have no problem with). If someone has gone above and beyond then by all means give them a glowing reference stating this, I just think it's ridiculous that you seem to expect your employees to have to jump through hoops to 'wow' you if they want a reference.

blackwhite

Billy86 wrote: »

Yes but the bricks and mortar are not related to the corporate structure, just because they own the land doesn't make it 100% their own entirely independent business with 'centra' simply written on a few labels and tags.

For Centra, that's exactly what it means.

Centra is a brand owned by Musgraves, a shop is either independently owned and run, or is directly owned by Musgraves (very rare for the Centra brand).

For Centra stores not owned by Musgraves, the shop owner signs up to a supply and branding agreement with Musgraves. Whether a store is branded as Centra or Supervalue depends on a few factors, the main ones being the shop size and location.
The shop owner agrees to source nearly all of their produce through Musgraves, and to rebrand their store as Centra, and to participate in promotions run by Musgraves. In return, they get the benefit of operating as a recognised brand, and also the benefit of the advertising which Musgraves run to support the brand.
Musgraves have certain minimum standards in terms of customer services, etc that must be met by the shop and also in terms of core product lines that must be stocked, but they have no input into the day-to-day running of the shop, the layout of the shop or employment practices.

lertsnim

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Bad attitude is a bad reference. A person who expects to be paid for fifteen minutes overtime has a very bad attitude. I wouldn't hire someone like that.

Why should someone not be paid for the time worked? You're attitude nonsense is just that

osarusan

Loads of wannabe Donald Trumps on here, farcically trying to justify not paying overtime as a way of finding out the work ethic of the employee, or their level of investment in the business.