ebola

Harold Weiss

jh79 wrote: »

Letter to the Irish Times doubting the HSE's ability to manage an Ebola outbreak.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/ebola-and-the-hse-1.1894861

Perhaps I am missing something here, but what exactly can any GP do to treat Ebola? Since when do small surgeries have the facilities necessary to deal with contagious viral haemorrhagic fevers?

Valid questions

Torakx

gozunda wrote: »

This is a good start on the conspiracy theories angle ...:/

Video - "AFRICANS ACCUSE 'WESTERNERS' OF SPREADING EBOLA! U.S. PEACE CORPS REMOVES ALL VOLUNTEERS!"

2.4 minutes long...

http://m.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/183121/Africans_Accuse_Westerners_of_Spreading_Ebola_US_Peace_Corps_Removes_All_Volunteers/

I can't get this video to play. But I am caught between the superstition of native africans in those areas and also of western governments and corporations motivations.

gozunda

Torakx wrote: »

I can't get this video to play. But I am caught between the superstition of native africans in those areas and also of western governments and corporations motivations.

Copy the link directly to your browser else you may need to update your java tm

jh79

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Watched bit of Contagion. The scene with Jude Law was very funny because he adds color to otherwise bland film.

Using social media for evidence (which the US state department does quite often). Inferring a connection between WHO and Pharma when WHO warned us we were on the precipice of doom in 2009 resulting in the purchase of swine flu vaccines that weren't even needed (Ireland spent €90 million alone)

There's plenty of evidence to show a revolving door between FDA and Pharma as it happens but you'd only presume it's nonsense without having spent an iota of time researching how lucrative the pharmaceutical industry is.

Believe it or not, pharma companies regularly manufacture and market drugs to make money. Most of the studies which show the efficacy of such drugs are funded by the industry...no, really...

I used to think they were in business to help people, like the tobacco and alcohol industry which kills millions every year.

Plenty of books have been written by pharma industry insiders so they can't all be crazy conspiracy theorists now, can they?

Of course they are funded by the industry who else would fund them .

Of course drug are manufactured to make money how else would they paid for further research and staff etc, bizarre point to make.

FDA, IMB etc are very stringent and it is extremely difficult to get a drug on the market.

The Pharma industry isn't very lucrative compared to Apple or Microsoft for example. Very high risk business .

jh79

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Valid questions

The WHO say it is very unlikely that someone could catch ebola while on a plane even if an infected person is on board. So unlikely we will ever have to deal with such a situation.

Harold Weiss

The Pharma industry isn't very lucrative compared to Apple or Microsoft for example. Very high risk business .

$600 billion business.

I suppose it depends what products are on the market but just for example, in 2013, Microsoft earned $21 Billion while the leading pharma company, Pfizer earned $23 billion for its shareholders.

A lot of pharma companies outperform technology stocks.

Torakx

jh79 wrote: »

The WHO say it is very unlikely that someone could catch ebola while on a plane even if an infected person is on board. So unlikely we will ever have to deal with such a situation.

I don't get that fully yet.
Viruses usually spread through contact. Often travelling tonew hosts through the air using particles of fluids.

Does Ebola spread for example if someone coughed intothe face of another person?
whatabout if theywipe their sweaty brow and touch the magazine on the seat ahea dof them and then someone else touches the magazine and puts their fingers in their mouth?
What about sneezing? Or shaking hands and then touching your mouth or face?
I'm not trying to be pedantic or "msart", just curious if these things would apply and if not, why? Like how does it spread exactly? does it go through the blood stream through skin? Or maybe into the digestive system and the into the bloodstream?
How is it compared to other viruses?
I realise this can be answered with a lot of google searches. But if someone here has done this already and knows. It would save a lot of people a lot of time.

jh79

Harold Weiss wrote: »

$600 billion business.

I suppose it depends what products are on the market but just for example, in 2013, Microsoft earned $21 Billion while the leading pharma company, Pfizer earned $23 billion for its shareholders.

A lot of pharma companies outperform technology stocks.

That is a revenue figure not profit. I think 6 b of that was profit which i i'm sure many other companies can top.

Pharma stock's are seen as a safe option as profits tend not to swing too much.

Lots of merger s happening which lead to high revenue figures but a smaller number of players.

jh79

Torakx wrote: »

I don't get that fully yet.
Viruses usually spread through contact. Often travelling tonew hosts through the air using particles of fluids.

Does Ebola spread for example if someone coughed intothe face of another person?
whatabout if theywipe their sweaty brow and touch the magazine on the seat ahea dof them and then someone else touches the magazine and puts their fingers in their mouth?
What about sneezing? Or shaking hands and then touching your mouth or face?
I'm not trying to be pedantic or "msart", just curious if these things would apply and if not, why? Like how does it spread exactly? does it go through the blood stream through skin? Or maybe into the digestive system and the into the bloodstream?
How is it compared to other viruses?
I realise this can be answered with a lot of google searches. But if someone here has done this already and knows. It would save a lot of people a lot of time.

It is not an air borne virus so is probably closer to Herpes or HIV in profile.

gozunda

From the World Health Organisation

Ebola is introduced into the human population through close contact with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected animals. In Africa, infection has been documented through the handling of infected chimpanzees, gorillas, fruit bats, monkeys, forest antelope and porcupines found ill or dead or in the rainforest.

Ebola then spreads in the community through human-to-human transmission, with infection resulting from direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes) with the blood, secretions, organs or other bodily fluids of infected people, and indirect contact with environments contaminated with such fluids. Burial ceremonies in which mourners have direct contact with the body of the deceased person can also play a role in the transmission of Ebola. Men who have recovered from the disease can still transmit the virus through their semen for up to 7 weeks after recovery from illness.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Torakx

It says other bodily fluids there. That means airbourne to me.

jh79

Torakx wrote: »

It says other bodily fluids there. That means airbourne to me.

The virus needs to be contained within bodily fluids to survive. Mucus from a sneeze doesn't stay airborne it will land after a few seconds.

jh79

http://www.maine.gov/dhhs/mecdc/infectious-disease/epi/airborne/

Explained here

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

The WHO say it is very unlikely that someone could catch ebola while on a plane even if an infected person is on board. So unlikely we will ever have to deal with such a situation.

The WHO also say :

Low risk exposures

A low risk exposure includes any of the following

''Household member or other casual contact1 with an EVD patient
Providing patient care or casual contact1 without high-risk exposure with EVD patients in health care facilities in EVD outbreak affected countries*

They then go on to define what they mean:

'' Casual contact is defined as a) being within approximately 3 feet (1 meter) or within the room or care area for a prolonged period of time (e.g., healthcare personnel, household members) while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment (i.e., droplet and contact precautions–see Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations); or b) having direct brief contact (e.g., shaking hands) with an EVD case while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment (i.e., droplet and contact precautions–see Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations). At this time, brief interactions, such as walking by a person or moving through a hospital, do not constitute casual contact.

So, you would be at Low Risk exposure if you were seated next to someone with Ebola for a few hours on a flight, would you not?

gozunda

Jake1 wrote: »

The WHO also say :

Low risk exposures

A low risk exposure includes any of the following

''Household member or other casual contact1 with an EVD patient
Providing patient care or casual contact1 without high-risk exposure with EVD patients in health care facilities in EVD outbreak affected countries*

They then go on to define what they mean:

'' Casual contact is defined as a) being within approximately 3 feet (1 meter) or within the room or care area for a prolonged period of time (e.g., healthcare personnel, household members) while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment (i.e., droplet and contact precautions–see Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations); or b) having direct brief contact (e.g., shaking hands) with an EVD case while not wearing recommended personal protective equipment (i.e., droplet and contact precautions–see Infection Prevention and Control Recommendations). At this time, brief interactions, such as walking by a person or moving through a hospital, do not constitute casual contact.

So, you would be at Low Risk exposure if you were seated next to someone with Ebola for a few hours on a flight, would you not?

Depends on the stage of the infection

If ...

EVD is a severe acute viral illness often characterized by the sudden onset of fever, intense weakness, muscle pain, headache and sore throat. This is followed by vomiting, diarrhoea, rash, impaired kidney and liver function, and in some cases, both internal and external bleeding. Laboratory findings include low white blood cell and platelet counts and elevated liver enzymes.
...
Health-care workers caring for patients with suspected or confirmed Ebola virus should apply, in addition to standard precautions, other infection control measures to avoid any exposure to the patient’s blood and body fluids and direct unprotected contact with the possibly contaminated environment. When in close contact (within 1 metre) of patients with EBV, health-care workers should wear face protection (a face shield or a medical mask and goggles), a clean, non-sterile long-sleeved gown, and gloves (sterile gloves for some procedures

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Some of the photos of areas showing the aftermath of a removed body looks like a bloodbath ...

jh79

Jake1 wrote: »

The WHO also say :

Low risk exposures

So, you would be at Low Risk exposure if you were seated next to someone with Ebola for a few hours on a flight, would you not?

So you would have a low risk of contracting it or in other words you would be unlikely to catch it.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Depends on the stage of the infection

If ...



http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

Some of the photos of areas showing the aftermath of a removed body looks like a bloodbath ...

I really admire the medical staff who deal with this. I certainly couldnt in all honesty.

Beano

Torakx wrote: »

It says other bodily fluids there. That means airbourne to me.

but not to anybody of a medical background

Torakx

jh79 wrote: »

The virus needs to be contained within bodily fluids to survive. Mucus from a sneeze doesn't stay airborne it will land after a few seconds.

That is my point in relation to the scenarios i described earlier. a tiny particle of fluid, like saliva or mucus could do it , or so it seems to me.
Now if the virus dies in this state too quickly for it to infect and spread, then maybe the spread will not be as easy as I imagine.

jh79

Torakx wrote: »

That is my point in relation to the scenarios i described earlier. a tiny particle of fluid, like saliva or mucus could do it , or so it seems to me.
Now if the virus dies in this state too quickly for it to infect and spread, then maybe the spread will not be as easy as I imagine.

It doesn't spread as easy as you seem to believe, poor sanitation and overcrowded living conditions are causing this to spread.

jh79

http://www.thejournal.ie/ebola-1621206-Aug2014/

First case in Ireland it seems.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/ebola-1621206-Aug2014/

First case in Ireland it seems.

False alarm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0815/637228-evidence-ebola-outbreak-vastly-underestimated/

gozunda

jh79 wrote: »

False alarm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0815/637228-evidence-ebola-outbreak-vastly-underestimated/

Thank drudge for that :eek: I know of an individual who was placed in 'isolation' in the Mater and to say that the isolation system was a joke is an understatement. If we do get Ebola and it is treated in a similar manner to that witnessed we are all Doomed!

MadYaker

gozunda wrote: »

Thank drudge for that :eek: I know of an individual who was placed in 'isolation' in the Mater and to say that the isolation system was a joke is an understatement. If we do get Ebola and it is treated in a similar manner to that witnessed we are all Doomed!

The Irish health system deals with less dangerous but far more contagious pathogens than ebola on a daily basis. Even there is a confirmed case in Ireland, which is highly unlikely, I wouldn't be in the slightest bit worried unless it was someone I recently had close contact with.

Harold Weiss

MadYaker wrote: »

The Irish health system deals with less dangerous but far more contagious pathogens than ebola on a daily basis. Even there is a confirmed case in Ireland, which is highly unlikely, I wouldn't be in the slightest bit worried unless it was someone I recently had close contact with.

It's funny though.

If I had Ebola, what would be the point in going to my GP? To infect everyone in the waiting room?

You could be waiting hours in some GP clinics and by the time you're seen, you could already have infected many other people.

HSE is run by sub-morons too busy eating fillet steak and lobster thermidor to realize how short sighted their "strategy" for dealing with this problem is.

Eventually, Ebola will get to Ireland and it's entirely the fault of authorities because instead of taking precautions and restricting travel from affected areas until the virus is contained, they're merely providing "travel advice"

Only an idiot would need advice, affected areas are unsafe for travel. Do we need to be told this? Apparently they think so.

jh79

Harold Weiss wrote: »

It's funny though.

If I had Ebola, what would be the point in going to my GP? To infect everyone in the waiting room?

You could be waiting hours in some GP clinics and by the time you're seen, you could already have infected many other people.

HSE is run by sub-morons too busy eating fillet steak and lobster thermidor to realize how short sighted their "strategy" for dealing with this problem is.

Eventually, Ebola will get to Ireland and it's entirely the fault of authorities because instead of taking precautions and restricting travel from affected areas until the virus is contained, they're merely providing "travel advice"

Only an idiot would need advice, affected areas are unsafe for travel. Do we need to be told this? Apparently they think so.

35 years since its discovery and it still hasn't made it here.

Read on the other thread there are no commercial flights between Ireland and Africa. So no need to restrict travel.

Harold Weiss

jh79 wrote: »

35 years since its discovery and it still hasn't made it here.

Read on the other thread there are no commercial flights between Ireland and Africa. So no need to restrict travel.

It will find its way here eventually, jh79.

I'm not worried about it, I don't care but I know it will get here.

The main area that will be affected is Dublin so who cares? :pac:

jh79

Harold Weiss wrote: »

It will find its way here eventually, jh79.

I'm not worried about it, I don't care but I know it will get here.

The main area that will be affected is Dublin so who cares? :pac:

So how would the travel restrictions work when there are no direct flights between the two countries?

Article here from the New York Times, some of the medical staff are concerned about the CDC's advice regarding what they wear when treating patient with Ebola.

Im with the staff on this one .

link here

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/health/hospitals-in-the-us-get-ready-for-ebola.html?&_r=0

MadYaker

Harold Weiss wrote: »

It's funny though.

If I had Ebola, what would be the point in going to my GP? To infect everyone in the waiting room?

You could be waiting hours in some GP clinics and by the time you're seen, you could already have infected many other people.

HSE is run by sub-morons too busy eating fillet steak and lobster thermidor to realize how short sighted their "strategy" for dealing with this problem is.

Eventually, Ebola will get to Ireland and it's entirely the fault of authorities because instead of taking precautions and restricting travel from affected areas until the virus is contained, they're merely providing "travel advice"

Only an idiot would need advice, affected areas are unsafe for travel. Do we need to be told this? Apparently they think so.

I apologise in advance for my bluntness but after reading this post it's become clear that you have no idea what you'r talking about.

How exactly is someone with ebola going to infect everyone in a GPs waiting room? Are they somehow going to be spreading their blood and saliva all over the other people there? Coughing and sneezing isn't enough to spread it unless you are literally coughing directly on a person at a very short distance.

Ebola may well get to Ireland. And when it does the person who has it will be quarantined and will most likely die in isolation. Anyone that person had close contact with will be tested for ebola and possibly quarantined as well until its certain they don't have the disease.

This virus isn't transmitted half as easily as people seem to think. Yes it's ravaging countries in west africa. Where people are totally uneducated, cling relentlessly to their traditions and will take the advice of their local witch doctor 100 times before they'll listen to some white guy in a full hazmat suit.

Harold Weiss

MadYaker wrote: »

I apologise in advance for my bluntness but after reading this post it's become clear that you have no idea what you'r talking about.

Ah now, you really aren't this sincere normally, are you? I feel privileged and fuzzy.

How exactly is someone with ebola going to infect everyone in a GPs waiting room? Are they somehow going to be spreading their blood and saliva all over the other people there? Coughing and sneezing isn't enough to spread it unless you are literally coughing directly on a person at a very short distance.

I could be coughing over everyone. Maybe I infect the doctor and everyone that visits the doctor starts inhaling his mucus..who the hell knows?

The point is, Ebola is in Africa, in a very isolated area so there's nothing to worry about...but then again, HSE are giving "travel advice" because they think everyone's an idiot. I don't need to be told affected areas are danger to visit...who really needs that "advice" ?

Ebola may well get to Ireland.

Eventually it will, yes. Undoubtedly.
I don't expect a big problem if you're an insensitive asshole, less than dozen people will perish. If HSE are too busy wiping their lips of lobster thermidor, it might be more severe.

And when it does the person who has it will be quarantined and will most likely die in isolation.

How do you know? A person can get on a bus for a 4 hour journey and everyone on that bus will be infected.

Anyone that person had close contact with will be tested for ebola and possibly quarantined as well until its certain they don't have the disease.
This virus isn't transmitted half as easily as people seem to think. Yes it's ravaging countries in west africa. Where people are totally uneducated, cling relentlessly to their traditions and will take the advice of their local witch doctor 100 times before they'll listen to some white guy in a full hazmat suit.

I agree there's a lot of fear mongering but for you to infer concerns are "uneducated" is pure arrogance.

Finish your fillet steak and tell me how good it feels.

jh79

If everybody on this bus of yours has an impromptu orgy then yes they might all be infected!

Harold Weiss

Harold Weiss wrote: »

I agree there's a lot of fear mongering but for you to infer concerns are "uneducated" is pure arrogance.

Who's doing the fearmongering exactly and how is it different to people who are claiming that the disease is more infectious than experts are letting and that it is going to spread all over the world thanks to a government conspiracy?

Harold Weiss

jh79 wrote: »

If everybody on this bus of yours has an impromptu orgy then yes they might all be infected!

Honest for a change. Thank you.

Harold Weiss

King Mob wrote: »

Who's doing the fearmongering exactly and how is it different to people who are claiming that the disease is more infectious than experts are letting and that it is going to spread all over the world thanks to a government conspiracy?

Well...let me tell you.

As the postman was dumping spam in my mailbox, he managed to distract me with this Ebola story.

Clenched in his hands were special offers from local supermarket and you could defend him for just trying to make a living.

I managed to remind him his 20 cents couldn't possibly reimburse the earth losing a tree and a barrel of oil, but he persisted in pushing that junk in my mail box anyway.

Was I smiling when he did it? No, I certainly was not but what could you do anyway?

I scratched my head and again reminded him of his deficit to humanity.

"Look man, you're deploying a piece of paper that costs this planet more than what you can redeem for your salary"

And he said.

"I'm just trying to survive, I don't like delivering this **** anymore than you like looking at it every morning."

Granted, the man was just being honest...and he was right. You know? There's a man trying to make ends meet.

You couldn't fault him for that.

degrassinoel

I bought an adhesive backed "NO JUNK MAIL" sign for 50c about a year ago and haven't had any junk mail since then. However, that has nothing to do with Ebola, can we get back on topic please?

A suspected case in Alicante Spain.

http://www.elmundo.es/comunidad-valenciana/2014/08/16/53efb686268e3e2f558b4583.html


http://www.thespainreport.com/10398/spanish-health-authorities-alicante-activate-alert-protocols-two-possible-ebola-cases/

gozunda

MadYaker wrote: »

The Irish health system (regularly fails to) deal with less dangerous but far more contagious ( but much less deadly ) pathogens than ebola on a daily basis...(see MRSA for example)

Fixed that ...

jh79

So is there an actual conspiracy or are we just having a general chat about Ebola?

Harold Weiss

jh79 wrote: »

So is there an actual conspiracy or are we just having a general chat about Ebola?

It's highly suspicious hanging out on the conspiracy theory forum trying to stimulate debate about something you don't believe in.

Harold Weiss

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Well...let me tell you.

As the postman was dumping spam in my mailbox, he managed to distract me with this Ebola story.

I'm not sure I understand.
Are you saying that it's accept for you and other conspiracy theorists to scaremonger because you don't make a profit from it?

Cork boy 55

jh79 wrote: »

So is there an actual conspiracy or are we just having a general chat about Ebola?

Ebola is a manmade bio-weapon engineered by the NWO to reduce populations levels.

MadYaker

gozunda wrote: »

Fixed that ...

MRSA is entirely different to ebola.

Harold Weiss

King Mob wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand.
Are you saying that it's accept for you and other conspiracy theorists to scaremonger because you don't make a profit from it?

Why am I a "Conspiracy Theorist" ?
Where does it say I believed there to be a conspiracy?

Do tobacco companies sell cigarettes to help people?
Why should the motives of vaccine companies be any different?

Incidentally, the ZMapp serum is made from tobacco leaves.

Harold Weiss

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Why am I a "Conspiracy Theorist" ?
Where does it say I believed there to be a conspiracy?

Then remove the word "other" from my post.

You and conspiracy theorists are making wild, scary claims about ebola which are not strictly supported.
Why is this not scaremongering?

Why is what the media does, making wild scary claims about ebola (or other outbreaks), called scaremongering and why is it bad?

Harold Weiss

King Mob wrote: »

Then remove the word "other" from my post.

You and conspiracy theorists are making wild, scary claims about ebola which are not strictly supported.
Why is this not scaremongering?

Quote me because I think you'll find I'm not scaremongering.

I'm not worried about Ebola.

weisses

King Mob wrote: »

Then remove the word "other" from my post.

You and conspiracy theorists are making wild, scary claims about ebola which are not strictly supported.
Why is this not scaremongering?

Why is what the media does, making wild scary claims about ebola (or other outbreaks), called scaremongering and why is it bad?

Conspiracy theorists now attacking Ebola Isolation centre ...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Armed-men-attack-Liberia-Ebola-isolation-centre-29-patients-flee/articleshow/40347460.cms

Harold Weiss

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Quote me because I think you'll find I'm not scaremongering.

I'm not worried about Ebola.

Harold Weiss wrote: »

I could be coughing over everyone. Maybe I infect the doctor and everyone that visits the doctor starts inhaling his mucus..who the hell knows?
...
How do you know? A person can get on a bus for a 4 hour journey and everyone on that bus will be infected.

Harold Weiss wrote: »

If I had Ebola, what would be the point in going to my GP? To infect everyone in the waiting room?

You could be waiting hours in some GP clinics and by the time you're seen, you could already have infected many other people.

.....

Eventually, Ebola will get to Ireland and it's entirely the fault of authorities because instead of taking precautions and restricting travel from affected areas until the virus is contained, they're merely providing "travel advice"

So again, what's the difference between what you are saying and the scaremongering you think is going on?

Ipso

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Ebola is a manmade bio-weapon engineered by the NWO to reduce populations levels.

It's taking a long time to work. Between this, swine flu and every other attempt at population control, it looks like we're safe enough.

Ipso

For anyone wanting to avoid big pharma cures, you can try this homeopathic one.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/12/homeopathy-for-ebola-virus-disease-too-irresponsible-for-even-mike-adams/