Former Boxing Promotor Frank Maloney to undergo gender reassignment surgery

Links234

Links234 wrote: »

*sigh*

No, being transgender is not a mental illness, and a growing body of scientific evidence shows that it is something physical from birth, for example:

How does it being physical prevent it from being an illness?

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan
Study In Transsexuals: Significant Genetic Link To Gender Identity

As well as that, most major psychological associations will tell you that being transgender is not a mental illness, and warns against treating it as if it were.

Psychological associations have said and done a lot through the last couple of centuries, it's easy to pick the bit one likes and say that it's obviously right while all the rest is guff.

wretcheddomain

Links234 wrote: »

*sigh*

No, being transgender is not a mental illness, and a growing body of scientific evidence shows that it is something physical from birth, for example:

Transsexual differences caught on brain scan
Study In Transsexuals: Significant Genetic Link To Gender Identity

As well as that, most major psychological associations will tell you that being transgender is not a mental illness, and warns against treating it as if it were.

Well, you've placed yourself in a bottomless pit of quandaries right there.

You claim it's something physical from birth, demonstrated in brain scans - we could say exactly the same about schizophrenia, from which a body of evidence suggests it begins from birth and can be seen on brain scans.

It's only your opinion that's not called it a mental illness, not objectivity.

NomadicGray

fran17 wrote: »

no no I much prefer the European type.but frank moloney would be stretching it;)

I dont think he'll be doing the strectching.

Muise...

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Well, you've placed yourself in a bottomless pit of quandaries right there.

You claim it's something physical from birth, demonstrated in brain scans - we could say exactly the same about schizophrenia, from which a body of evidence suggests it begins from birth and can be seen on brain scans.

It's only your opinion that's not called it a mental illness, not objectivity.

Synaesthesia would show up on scans too - that's not an illness but a curious phenomenon. Nice try with the analogy to crazy though.

Transgender people don't live in a world of unimaginable mental torment in which they are a danger to themselves and others. They simply want their minds and bodies and souls to match up. It's Links' experience and research that says it's not a mental illness, which is a darn sight more realistic than your "objective" opinion.

padd b1975

NomadicGray wrote: »

I dont think he'll be doing the strectching.

Not in those heels anyway!

wazky

Does this mean he will have a valid excuse to be walking demon at a certain time in a month?

gordongekko

Omackeral wrote: »

That's still a man's name. Frances is the female version.

Will his boxing name be Frances "the geezer" Maloney?

Links234

According to the APA:

A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.

So no, it's not 'just my opinion', even the term Gender Identity Disorder has been removed from the DSMV. It is no longer considered a mental illness/disorder across the board.

And you know what?

These kinds of threads are not fun for me. I get a sense of exasperation and dread when something like this pops up, because mostly they're just somewhere for certain folks to air just how disgusting they find transgender people, to make jokes about us, call us crazy, and all sorts of things. And of course, some people just have to soapbox about how THEY know so much better than the doctors, psychologists, researchers and anyone else who is an authority on these matters, not to mention trans people themselves. And the sad thing is, there's so very, very few trans people left on boards to even defend ourselves.

Just once, I'd like to see a thread posted about someone who's transgender where people have something nice to say. That'd be nice. But we've got a hell of a long way to go it seems.

Muise...

I like you Links. I think a LOT of people here like you too.

love,

M

homemadecider

Links234 wrote: »

According to the APA: A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder.

One of the quotes from Frank Maloney at the start of this thread is ""I can't keep living in the shadows, that is why I am doing what I am today. Living with the burden any longer would have killed me"... does that not sound like a person in profound distress because of their gender identify??

Links234

No, it sounds like someone who had been in profound distress from being in the closet

Frankie Lee

Links234 wrote: »

Just once, I'd like to see a thread posted about someone who's transgender where people have something nice to say. That'd be nice. But we've got a hell of a long way to go it seems.

Unfortunately there are not too many positive things to say about Kerrie Maloney.

P_1

Links, you're one of the best posters on this site in my eyes, you have a great wit and knowledge about you. Sadly quite a lot of folk are quite, well for lack of a better word, gobshítes when it comes to anything to do with trans issues, and because you're so open about yourself it seems that unfortunately you will attract the idiots like a fresh turd would attract flies whenever the topic comes up.

I'd imagine that you're well able to handle them at this stage though.

Muise...

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Unfortunately there are not too many positive things to say about Kerrie Maloney.

I'd bet good money that none of those negative things have anything to do with her gender, so it's a shame to use such personal issues to get a dig at her.

folamh

I have a female brain.

I'd like to hear him elaborate on this without going into offensive stereptypes and/or "neurosexism".

diddley

I don't have any issues with trans people. I do however think it's a sad reflection on our own society that people feel the need to mutilate their bodies in order to feel OK in themselves. Maybe if we had less defined gender roles and more grey areas (Pete Burns anyone?) people would be able to live happily in the body they were born in.

Frankie Lee

Muise... wrote: »

I'd bet good money that none of those negative things have anything to do with her gender, so it's a shame to use such personal issues to get a dig at her.

True enough.

Links234

P_1 wrote: »

I'd imagine that you're well able to handle them at this stage though.

You might think so, but I'd be lying if I said that crap like this doesn't get to me.

Out there in the real world, nobody really says anything to me, I haven't gotten any negative comments about being trans in a while, and it seemed like as time when by I got negative comments far less frequently that I did when I first came out. I've been on HRT over 3 years now, so I've probably gotten to the point where people don't even notice that I'm trans at all any more, I'm pretty sure I've got friends who don't even know I'm trans even though I never hide and am always open about it, it just never seems to come up really. But when a thread like this comes up on boards, all the nastiness and cruelty comes out, and it does get to me. When someone is making a statement that all transgender people are mentally ill, they are saying that about me, when they're insulting transgender and making nasty jokes, they're saying it about people I know, and people I love.

P_1

diddley wrote: »

I don't have any issues with trans people. I do however think it's a sad reflection on our own society that people feel the need to mutilate their bodies in order to feel OK in themselves. Maybe if we had less defined gender roles and more grey areas (Pete Burns anyone?) people would be able to live happily in the body they were born in.

What is mutilation though? In my eyes anybody can do whatever the hell they want to with their bodies.

LiveIsLife

Why can't they accept the body that they were born with?

Omackeral

Muise... wrote: »

I'd bet good money that none of those negative things have anything to do with her gender, so it's a shame to use such personal issues to get a dig at her.

Maybe I'm being ignorant, in so much as I don't know any trans people or even know anyone who knows any trans people, but it's strange to me hearing people saying 'her' after 60 years of saying him.

Muise...

LiveIsLife wrote: »

Why can't they accept the body that they were born with?

That is an impossible question, like "why did you fall in love with that girl?" or "why does piano music make you sad?" Dare I ask -why can't you accept trans people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkdVbbr407k

P_1

LiveIsLife wrote: »

Why can't they accept the body that they were born with?

Why can't some people not manage to keep their noses out of where they're not wanted.

Links234

Omackeral wrote: »

Maybe I'm being ignorant, in so much as I don't know any trans people or even know anyone who knows any trans people, but it's strange to me hearing people saying 'her' after 60 years of saying him.

Why is it so strange? Let me ask, do you find it equally strange if lets say Mary Smith got married and is now Mary Jones? Do you think, well she's been Smith for 30 years?

This whole thread is sad.

What does it matter to anyone if someone is trans?
It's the irrational fear and ignorance that I just don't get.

Why would you want someone to be unhappy when it has NOTHING to do with you.

Well done Kellie. Well done links. Minds will change, slowly though

How Soon Is Now

These threads always go the same way. Any of the lgbt threads in here end up the same. You get a lot of people who come in and talk ****e u then get all the ''reps'' of the subject who come in and defend themselves to the nines no one learns anything and recycle.

I just dont see why anyone wastes there time anymore some have certain views that wont change some people have others.

Im not saying im taking anyones side in particular its just easy to see whats gonna happen everytime these subjects come up.

Next step will be it will all get to the next level and the thread will be locked just as the rest of them where what was the point?

P_1

Links234 wrote: »

You might think so, but I'd be lying if I said that crap like this doesn't get to me.

Out there in the real world, nobody really says anything to me, I haven't gotten any negative comments about being trans in a while, and it seemed like as time when by I got negative comments far less frequently that I did when I first came out. I've been on HRT over 3 years now, so I've probably gotten to the point where people don't even notice that I'm trans at all any more, I'm pretty sure I've got friends who don't even know I'm trans even though I never hide and am always open about it, it just never seems to come up really. But when a thread like this comes up on boards, all the nastiness and cruelty comes out, and it does get to me. When someone is making a statement that all transgender people are mentally ill, they are saying that about me, when they're insulting transgender and making nasty jokes, they're saying it about people I know, and people I love.

Very true and I just realised how incredibly patronising I must have sounded in that post so my apologies for that.

BTW I'm sure more people recognise you as the 'Mad Japanese Metal Posting Chick' rather than the 'Trans Chick' here :cool:

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Why would you want someone to be unhappy when it has NOTHING to do with you.

Word PD. This. Soooo much this. Goes for anything other folks want to do and how they want to live their lives. If it's their choice and it's got nothing to do with and doesn't affect me in my life, not a flying fcuk will be ever given by me TBH.

Macavity.

She doesn't seem like the nicest person, from what I've read. I hope it all works out for her though and that her wife and children can come to terms with this.

Links234

P_1 wrote: »

Very true and I just realised how incredibly patronising I must have sounded in that post so my apologies for that.

BTW I'm sure more people recognise you as the 'Mad Japanese Metal Posting Chick' rather than the 'Trans Chick' here :cool:

Don't worry, you weren't that patronising

Here, have some mad Japanese metal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRI1SCT-C8

TeddyTedson

I remember I didn't really understand the idea of transgender people but once I really opened my eyes it's not really that difficult to comprehend.
When I was a kid I felt like a boy. If I never saw my own reflection I'd still know I was a boy. If I suddenly saw one day that I was in a girls body I'd feel like I'm in the wrong body. It's pretty simple right?

Omackeral

Links234 wrote: »

Why is it so strange? Let me ask, do you find it equally strange if lets say Mary Smith got married and is now Mary Jones? Do you think, well she's been Smith for 30 years?

I wouldn't say equally strange no seen as it's something I and everyone else I know has grown up knowing. Most women get married and change their names. So it's not strange in that regard to me. Perhaps it is strange that a wife takes a husbands name though!

By the way, I'm not denigrating anyone here. I'm gonna educate myself on this subject. As I said, I've had zero exposure to any trans people thus far in my everyday life, as far as I know. I've never fully given any thought to the 'T' in LGBT. It's not as prevalent in society as being gay. My own brother actually came out two years ago and it wasn't half the big deal to is that he thought it world be. As I said, I'll be keeping an eye here to learn more and more. So thanks.

Penny Tration

One of my friends is transitioning from male to female. I'll readily admit that occasionally, when speaking about her to mutual friends, I'll use the male pronoun accidentally, but always correct myself. She's faced horrible ridicule from her supposedly best friends, and has had to be put on antide, but still says she's happier than she's ever been. That's the most important thing - her happiness. If becoming the gender physically that she mentally is makes her happy, who the fcuk are we to judge?

LiveIsLife

Muise... wrote: »

That is an impossible question, like "why did you fall in love with that girl?" or "why does piano music make you sad?" Dare I ask -why can't you accept trans people?

I find it totally abnormal. I'm not sure exactly why but in in many cases I think they cross into the uncanny valley. The changes they go through don't make them biologically a man or woman.

arybvtcw0eolkf

If a man has the guts to chop his balls off like that, then I want to have sex with a woman like that

Fair play him, or her ~ it doesn't, 'nor ever will impact on my life and he/she can refer to themselves however they want if thats what make's 'em happy.

Muise...

LiveIsLife wrote: »

I find it totally abnormal. I'm not sure exactly why but in in many cases I think they cross into the uncanny valley. The changes they go through don't make them biologically a man or woman.

It'd be completely abnormal for you to feel like you are in the wrong body I'm sure, but that doesn't cancel out how transgender people feel. I'm fairly sure you have feelings and preferences that are way out of my range, but I wouldn't call you abnormal, just not-like-me.

Shakespeare's Sister

I'ma go with... psychiatrists saying it's not a mental illness rather than people with no psychiatry credentials saying it's a mental illness because they "feel" it is.

Don't know much about the physical aspect of it, but again, people telling transgender people they're wrong (just based again on a "feeling") about how they feel must be just a tad grating.

Lyaiera

folamh wrote: »

I'd like to hear him elaborate on this without going into offensive stereptypes and/or "neurosexism".

diddley wrote: »

I don't have any issues with trans people. I do however think it's a sad reflection on our own society that people feel the need to mutilate their bodies in order to feel OK in themselves. Maybe if we had less defined gender roles and more grey areas (Pete Burns anyone?) people would be able to live happily in the body they were born in.

The latest evidence shows the part of brain that maps the physical body to your mental idea of your physical body is different in trans people to cis people. Trans people seem to have the "opposite" gender's map of their body in their brain. There's far more to being trans than that, but that should answer your question about the physical aspect.

Secondly, a lot of treatments have been attempted for trans people, including "reparative therapy." The most basic conclusion every non-biased study has come to shows when trans people transition with the support of their friends and family, they are happier and the issues they had previously disappear. Transitioning (and not being discriminated against) literally makes people happier. Not transitioning makes people unhappier.

As for Ireland, I think most people have a live and let live attitude. We don't currently have gender recognition law, the lack of gay marriage is proving a problem for that and divorce law is also a problem, but the trans people I talk to and my own experience is that most people in Ireland are happy for someone to be living their lives in a way that makes them happy. I've even heard foreign trans people say they're glad they're living in Ireland and not their (western European) countries.

I went to my local last night, I'm in a much earlier stage of transitioning than Links is, so it's mostly obvious I'm trans. I had absolutely zero problems in the pub. I'm a regular their and all the staff support me, and I had no problems from anyone who came in. In fact quite the opposite. I went to the bathroom and must have said hi to someone. She came up to me a few minutes later and said (after introductions) "I would never have known if it wasn't for your voice." And she gave me a smile and a "go you." I'm sure I'll have plenty of encounters with people looking to insult me, and maybe even hurt me, but generally I really like Ireland and find the people here supportive, helpful and non-judgmental.

LiveIsLife

Muise... wrote: »

It'd be completely abnormal for you to feel like you are in the wrong body I'm sure, but that doesn't cancel out how transgender people feel. I'm fairly sure you have feelings and preferences that are way out of my range, but I wouldn't call you abnormal, just not-like-me.

But why can't they accept it? LGBT is all about accepting who you are, but they can't accept their own bodies

Lyaiera

LiveIsLife wrote: »

I find it totally abnormal. I'm not sure exactly why but in in many cases I think they cross into the uncanny valley. The changes they go through don't make them biologically a man or woman.

I don't know what "uncanny valley" means but as to your "biologically a man or woman" there are plenty of men and women living their lives happily in their gender who would be shocked to know they're not as much of a man or woman, biologically as they think they are. A lot of people discover this when they decide to have children, and a lot more will never know because it has zero impact on their life. But if they had to wear a sign around their body it could quite easily say, "Biologically 90% Man/10% Woman" and no-one would give a **** because it makes no difference.

And even then there's a lot more to the sexes than organs, there's endocrine systems, fatty tissues, secondary sex characteristics, neurology, etc. And for a lot of trans people, medical treatment will see them the same as other men and women. Medical treatment that is often used for cisgender people as well as transgender people.

Muise...

LiveIsLife wrote: »

But why can't they accept it? LGBT is all about accepting who you are, but they can't accept their own bodies

Are you deliberately confusing things?

LGBT is accepting who you are and who you love out in the open, not hiding in the pretence that you are heterosexual/male/female to fit in with unimaginative bullies.

dd972

Never mind all this noise, why isn't there a 'Would You / Wouldn't You' poll at the top of the page ?

Too Tough To Die

I'm not buying it.

Frank Lee Midere

Magaggie wrote: »

I'ma go with... psychiatrists saying it's not a mental illness rather than people with no psychiatry credentials saying it's a mental illness because they "feel" it is.

Don't know much about the physical aspect of it, but again, people telling transgender people they're bwrong about how they feel must be just a tad grating.

psychiatrists used to see homosexuality as a mental illness and that's still true in Freudian analysis. Jung too I think.

Basically psychiatry treats politically correct deviations from the norm as a mental illness. As political moods change they change their lists. In most cases they have increased the number and breadth of mental illnesses. ADHD etc. I think there are 100's now.

A man thinking he is a woman has been removed though.

wretcheddomain

This thread has clearly demonstrated that the "trans question" is now under the umbrella of PC-ism. The second you raise any form of critique or criticism of accepted theories, you're immediately branded with a negative epithet.

The same has happened with Islam. The second you criticise this religion in public, no matter how legitimate the critique, you reflexively get labelled "Islamophobic".

The curious thing is that trans folk demand to be accepted in society (a legitimate demand), however, they won't accept anyone else to harbour an "alternative" theory or critique as to its existence. This is a case of one side having to tolerate the other, without any reciprocity.

Of course, there are some diabolical posts where people use this as an excuse to tar people as "abnormal", "weird" etc. That is equally as objectionable in my view as it distorts and distracts from what could be a reasonable conversation where people hold respectable differences of opinion. This has been rendered void by PC-ism as well as the opposing extremists.

TeddyTedson

It's hard for people to comprehend things they don't understand obviously but people should realise it's part of life and stop being derogatory towards trans people.
Why would you ever want to make someone feel **** about their life?

Frank Lee Midere

Lyaiera wrote: »

I don't know what "uncanny valley" means but as to your "biologically a man or woman" there are plenty of men and women living their lives happily in their gender who would be shocked to know they're not as much of a man or woman, biologically as they think they are. A lot of people discover this when they decide to have children, and a lot more will never know because it has zero impact on their life. But if they had to wear a sign around their body it could quite easily say, "Biologically 90% Man/10% Woman" and no-one would give a **** because it makes no difference.

And even then there's a lot more to the sexes than organs, there's endocrine systems, fatty tissues, secondary sex characteristics, neurology, etc. And for a lot of trans people, medical treatment will see them the same as other men and women. Medical treatment that is often used for cisgender people as well as transgender people.

Nonsense. The biological reality for humans is the same as for all animals. Sex is gender. Gender is sex. It's binary.

Most of this reminds me that the cultural lefts recent love of "science" is horse poo. Most sociology students think to say something is to prove it. To claim "offence" is to stop debate. It's basically a secular religion.

Muise...

TeddyTedson wrote: »

It's hard for people to comprehend things they don't understand obviously but people should realise it's part of life and stop being derogatory towards trans people.
Why would you ever want to make someone feel **** about their life?

because PC gone mad, apparently... :rolleyes:

mikemac1

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Why would you ever want to make someone feel **** about their life?

Frank Maloney should be asking himself that too over his comments over the years. Seems a very unpleasant man

porsche959

Guardian columnist and feminist Julie Bindel is a notorious example of a left wing transphobe.

Mind you it it not untypical of a Guardian columnist to only care about their own special interest & disparage anyone elses.