John Bruton

lufties

I woke this morning and read the headline on the sindo Populations are blaming austerity on bankers like people in the 17th century blamed witches’ - John Bruton. After reading this I just wanted to crawl back under my cover.
After all that has happened over the last few years, this multi-pensioned elitest comes out with this tripe, basically saying the ordinary joe will have to work harder to keep his banker mates in the lifestyle they're accustomed to. He is obviously pro elite, anti-ordinary citizen.

I'm beginning to wonder if he is in fact becoming a danger to Ireland :mad:

wretcheddomain

An impressive comment from the new Labour leader.

lufties

wretcheddomain wrote: »

An impressive comment from the new Labour leader.

He's not.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The banks were too big to fail lads.

What...?

You're going to pay most of your money to the tax man now.

What...?

Done.

Davarus Walrus

He said the era of state pensions and universal health care is going to end. He's right. It will. It might not be what people want to hear, but it's refreshing to have someone say it.

Hotfail.com

lufties wrote: »

Populations are blaming austerity on bankers like people in the 17th century blamed witches

We never got to do anything cool to the bankers though, like burning them at the stake or boiling them

Amirani

I agree to an extent. Certain people have a tendency to castigate "the bankers" for all of Ireland's fiscal problems. There's many more factors at play.

lufties

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I agree to an extent. Certain people have a tendency to castigate "the bankers" for all of Ireland's fiscal problems. There's many more factors at play.

There isn't really, Internationalist bankers have ruled the world for centuries, apparently even influencing wars.

KahBoom

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I agree to an extent. Certain people have a tendency to castigate "the bankers" for all of Ireland's fiscal problems. There's many more factors at play.

Such as? The necessity of bailing out the private banks, is what exploded our (previously extremely low) public debt, and it's the profligacy of the bankers that pumped up the housing bubble that a lot of fiscal policy came to depend upon.

Obviously, it was bad for fiscal policy to lean on a bubble like that - but the lions share of both our fiscal and debt problems (including debt gathered through post-bailout fiscal spending), is down to the banks and the property bubble they created.

If the banks had not blown that up, and then required bailouts, we would have much smaller cuts and much smaller and more manageable public debt.


The main parties in government are trying to protect the 'elite' class which includes bankers, from any form of accountability, and are presently allowing another property bubble to develop - so it seems to be part of the party narrative for many of the main parties, to try and shift the blame onto the public with the "we're all to blame" nonsense - we need bankers put in jail for breaking laws/regulations, or they will do the same thing again and again and again.

Cantremember

It's a wake up call to those of us who thought all these battles had been won from roughly 1850 to 1950. (or 1990 ish in Ireland). Bruton is speaking for the elites who through globalisation have reversed the thrust of social and economic reform after the a Industrial revolution. They now want to dictate to and constrain government. I hope the 20 something's wake up and start looking a these people clearly.

Amirani

KahBoom wrote: »

Such as? The necessity of bailing out the private banks, is what exploded our (previously extremely low) public debt, and it's the profligacy of the bankers that pumped up the housing bubble that a lot of fiscal policy came to depend upon.

I agree that private banks are largely to blame for the rapid increase in public debt. Fiscal policy that was based on unsustainable growth in demand for housing led to a post-construction era where we ran larger current budget deficits that we would have had Celtic Tiger era Government fiscal policy not been based on a hollow construction boom.

Bankers aren't really to blame for the construction boom as a whole and it's poor handling by Government.

KahBoom

Cantremember wrote: »

It's a wake up call to those of us who thought all these battles had been won from roughly 1850 to 1950. (or 1990 ish in Ireland). Bruton is speaking for the elites who through globalisation have reversed the thrust of social and economic reform after the a Industrial revolution. They now want to dictate to and constrain government. I hope the 20 something's wake up and start looking a these people clearly.

It is surprising the lack of attention people pay to this, and the way people dismiss the idea offhand - overall 'the left' have failed completely, to fulfill the role previously expected of them, of building a proper narrative for informing the public of these political ills, and for informing the public of and motivating for action in favour of alternatives.

It might take another financial crisis or two, with even more austerity and rolling back of the state (and increased power of private business and finance over public life), before people start paying attention, and 'the left' regroups and starts fulfilling its role.

wretcheddomain

lufties wrote: »

He's not.

Joan/John Burton/Bruton...:rolleyes:

Karl Stein

Before more FG fanboys arrive it needs to be pointed out that FG were offering a turbo-charged version of what FF were doing during the Celtic pyramid. Things may well have been much worse had they got their way and most certainly would have been no better in the aftermath if that twat Bruton is anything to go by.

Mongfinder General

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

He said the era of state pensions and universal health care is going to end. He's right. It will. It might not be what people want to hear, but it's refreshing to have someone say it.

It will end. The difference is that he wants it to end because he feels that the recipients are a burden.

lufties

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Joan/John Burton/Bruton...:rolleyes:

ah yeah shur...patata/patata :rolleyes:

KahBoom

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I agree that private banks are largely to blame for the rapid increase in public debt. Fiscal policy that was based on unsustainable growth in demand for housing led to a post-construction era where we ran larger current budget deficits that we would have had Celtic Tiger era Government fiscal policy not been based on a hollow construction boom.

Bankers aren't really to blame for the construction boom as a whole and it's poor handling by Government.

It was wrong for government to lean on the construction bubble for fiscal funding, and government played a part in not keeping the banks leashed-in, but the banks are responsible for loaning money out unsustainably and unproductively, and for pumping the property bubble as a result of that (which undermined the future foundations of fiscal spending).

You can't pump a property bubble as big as that, without bank debt playing a fundamental role.

The banks own that responsibility - and a lot of the political narrative that the main-parties/banks/finance use for shifting blame, is to try and defer responsibility for loaning sustainably, onto government and the public - but it is the banks who are operating under regulations and an expectation that they operate sustainably.

To operate in a way that they know is unsustainable, is fraud - and should result in jail time; yet we have no investigation of this (and the one that's coming is looking rather inadequate), because they are protected.

Frank Lee Midere

The State pension is easy to save. All we need to do is increase the age it begins by a year for every year increase in life expectancy and reform some public sector pensions.

Sully

Karl Stein wrote: »

Before more FG fanboys arrive it needs to be pointed out that FG were offering a turbo-charged version of what FF were doing during the Celtic pyramid. Things may well have been much worse had they got their way and most certainly would have been no better in the aftermath if that twat Bruton is anything to go by.

Guess we are screwed so.

Fianna Fail got us into the mess (again). Fine Gael apparently would have made it worse (but they are doing a good job with the recovery, again). Sinn Fein would have us living the dark ages under candlelight. Labour haven't done exactly a sterling job in government so far.

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Joan/John Burton/Bruton...:rolleyes:

One is male, one is female.

One was Taoiseach.

One wasn't.

One was in Fine Gael.

One was in Labour.

Bit of a difference

Nodin

lufties wrote: »

I woke this morning and read the headline on the sindo Populations are blaming austerity on bankers like people in the 17th century blamed witches’ - John Bruton. After reading this I just wanted to crawl back under my cover.
After all that has happened over the last few years, this multi-pensioned elitest comes out with this tripe, basically saying the ordinary joe will have to work harder to keep his banker mates in the lifestyle they're accustomed to. He is obviously pro elite, anti-ordinary citizen.

I'm beginning to wonder if he is in fact becoming a danger to Ireland :mad:

Typical blue shirt yammer.

lufties

Nodin wrote: »

Typical blue shirt yammer.

Are you mad?

Mongfinder General

Sully wrote: »

Guess we are screwed so.

Fianna Fail got us into the mess (again). Fine Gael apparently would have made it worse (but they are doing a good job with the recovery, again). Sinn Fein would have us living the dark ages under candlelight. Labour haven't done exactly a sterling job in government so far.

Fine Gael stuck with the Troika programme and have gotten lucky due to unexpected growth in the economy. The markets have been kind recently and this helps too. Scams like job bridge and the safety valve of emigration have taken the sting out of unemployment claims. It is pure luck and that's about the size of it.

Nodin

lufties wrote: »

Are you mad?

Him, not you.

Snake

lufties wrote: »

There isn't really, Internationalist bankers have ruled the world for centuries, apparently even influencing wars.

You're watching too much TV.

KahBoom

Sully wrote: »

Guess we are screwed so.

Fianna Fail got us into the mess (again). Fine Gael apparently would have made it worse (but they are doing a good job with the recovery, again). Sinn Fein would have us living the dark ages under candlelight. Labour haven't done exactly a sterling job in government so far.

Nothing Ireland does alone is going to solve our current problems, the best any party can do right now is try to avoid things getting worse - and FG are now allowing another property bubble to be inflated (and there are rumblings of another worldwide financial crisis potentially on the way), which is not good.

Things will start getting better, either when Europe gets its shít together and assists countries with fiscal spending (in my opinion, not likely - ever), or when Europe breaks up (with things getting worse before they start to get better - but would allow a proper recovery when not constrained by the restrictions of the Euro, but only if a future government is smart enough to know how to manage our own currency again).

All in all, not looking good - another poster put it well, that Ireland may in the coming decades become something of a failed state - hopefully we can, at some stage, build a sensible and popular political party before things are too far gone.

lufties

Nodin wrote: »

Him, not you.

ok. sorry.

Karl Stein

Sully wrote: »

Fine Gael ... are doing a good job with the recovery

FG are following orders. You could paint faces on turnips and replace most of FG with them and they'd do a similar job and have similar personalities.

Sinn Fein would have us living the dark ages under candlelight.

They were the one party who had no part in the crash and its aftermath yet everything would be exponentially worse had they been driving the car or arriving in the ambulance?

Your bias is very plain to see.

Manach

This unfortunately does not mean a rollback on all the taxes (actual and stealth) that the state has imposed. The state share of GDP, like all developed countries, has increased. The excuse being, to better serve the citizenry. However with had services are to be had being rolled back - this state share of wealth remains as it. One presumes the money is to be used all the better to for the parties to reward their lobbyists.

KahBoom

Karl Stein wrote: »

They were the one party who had no part in the crash and its aftermath yet everything would be exponentially worse had they been driving the car or arriving in the ambulance?

Your bias is very plain to see.

I've not been a fan of SF in the past, especially because of all their baggage of troubles-era politicians, where I can't avoid having doubts about many reputations in the party - but they're looking like the only alternative left, and may be the only party that may be open to real economic alternatives at this point.

It's still hard to judge though - there's a lot of FUD surrounding SF, and I'm not sure how to view them.

Sully

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Fine Gael stuck with the Troika programme and have gotten lucky due to unexpected growth in the economy. The markets have been kind recently and this helps too. Scams like job bridge and the safety valve of emigration have taken the sting out of unemployment claims. It is pure luck and that's about the size of it.

Can't beat a bit of luck running a government for three years and not having any responsibility at all for how things went!

Job bridge etc. are taken into consideration in some figures, not the overall unemployment figures. There is only 5,000 of them at any one time; they are also included on the unemployed register and there would be no income tax revenue from them.

So lets put aside those figures for a moment and assume the unemployed register is false. But tax intake is considerably higher than this time last year. As is VAT, which is based on consumer spending. Income Tax is up too. Figures are climbing up, employment figures are climbing up, unemployment figures are dropping.

EazyD

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

He said the era of state pensions and universal health care is going to end. He's right. It will. It might not be what people want to hear, but it's refreshing to have someone say it.

Would be even more refreshing if the man himself wasn't receiving an 140k pension.