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Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

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  • #1052
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    Sure if spiderman was that much of a cash cow, then the amazing spiderman 2 wouldn't have underperformed to the extent Sony chose to share custody of the character with Marvel.

    A bit of Spider-man fatigue kicked in alright due to it's poor reviews, like the two previous Spider-man films. Yet they still all pull in about 800 million. He's the only character consistently able to pull in the big bucks for Marvel in film and across all mediums by himself. Then go and combine him with the Avengers and you'll see box office records being broken all over the place. You know as well as I do many people will be going just to see Spider-man in an avengers film


  • #1053
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    And your basing Spider-Man on being the Marvel cash cow on what grounds exactly??

    What Marvel character has made more money for Marvel than Spider-man? You think he's the flagship character and the most popular comic book character of all time (maybe with Batman and Superman) for the laugh? There's a reason Marvel wanted him back and could take or leave X-men, FF etc.


  • #1054
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    A bit of Spider-man fatigue kicked in alright. It got bad reviews, as did 2 bad Spider-man films beforehand too which didn't help. Yet they still all pull in about 800 million. He's the only character consistently able to pull in the big bucks by himself across all mediums. Then go and combine him with the Avengers and you'll see box office records being broken all over the place. You know as well as I do many people will be going just to see Spider-man in an avengers film

    Not if they're actively downplaying the role, like they seem to be doing right now.

    The amazing spider-man movies are bad, spiderman 3 by Raimi isn't great, but 2 and 1 are fantastic, and were reviewed as such. Sure spiderman can be a draw, spiderman is fantastic, but he's not that big really. Otherwise like I said, ASM 1 + 2 would have performed better.


  • #1055
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    Not if they're actively downplaying the role, like they seem to be doing right now.

    The amazing spider-man movies are bad, spiderman 3 by Raimi isn't great, but 2 and 1 are fantastic, and were reviewed as such. Sure spiderman can be a draw, spiderman is fantastic, but he's not that big really. Otherwise like I said, ASM 1 + 2 would have performed better.

    The only Marvel solo film which outperformed any of the 5 Spider-man films was one Iron Man film once, off the back of the Avengers brand and good reviews, and only done so in such an inflated period of cinema. Any big film since 2011 with good reviews is breaking the 1 billion mark (imax etc). The only other films able to outperform Spider-man were assembled teams of several hero's together. The last 3 Spider-man films, off the back of no brand but his own, along with bad reviews, were still able to canter in to such big numbers


  • #1056
    Kaia Narrow Handlebar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Kaia Narrow Handlebar


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    What Marvel character has made more money for Marvel than Spider-man? You thing he's the flagship character and the most popular comic book character (maybe with Batman and Superman) for the laugh? There's a reason Marvel wanted him back and could take or leave X-men, FF etc.

    The other characters are established now though and in some cases have big name actors that have portrayed them very well the days of spidey being marvels biggest gun is over Downey jr. Iron man is probably more popular the only character they could have come in and be "the guy" is a hugh jackman wolverine a young yet to be established Spider-Man with a relative small name actor won't do that until at least phase 4 and if he ever does it's likely in an avengers heroes of tomorrow type team given his age


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  • #1057
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Kaia Narrow Handlebar wrote: »
    The other characters are established now though and in some cases have big name actors that have portrayed them very well the days of spidey being marvels biggest gun is over Downey jr. Iron man is probably more popular the only character they could have come in and be "the guy" is a hugh jackman wolverine a young yet to be established Spider-Man with a relative small name actor won't do that until at least phase 4 and if he ever does it's likely in an avengers heroes of tomorrow type team given his age

    I do take your point, but Spider-man has mass appeal which Iron man doesn't. Iron man tends to appeal to young men as all the tech is pretty cool, but will he have longevity, especially when Downey goes? Is he more a novelty? Spider-man doesn't rely on who is playing him or the Avengers brand. He has such popularity and longevity due to the fact he is the every man who everyone can relate to. And as such, the other characters will come and go, yet Spider-man will continue to have mass popularity dwarfing the others.


  • #1058
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    A bit of Spider-man fatigue kicked in alright due to it's poor reviews, like the two previous Spider-man films. Yet they still all pull in about 800 million. He's the only character consistently able to pull in the big bucks for Marvel in film and across all mediums by himself. Then go and combine him with the Avengers and you'll see box office records being broken all over the place. You know as well as I do many people will be going just to see Spider-man in an avengers film

    This is possibly THE SILLIEST thing i have read all day, people won't be going to an Avengers movie just to see Spider-Man, they'll be going to an Avengers movie to see The Avengers, seeing as it's THEIR movie, Spider-Man being included is just an added bonus..


  • #1059
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    Is this a spiderman bot/fanboy? Sure he's cool, not that cool. The avengers have had 7 years of building up, several good films. Last really great spiderman film was 2004.


  • #1060
    James74
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭James74


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Iron man tends to appeal to young men as all the tech is pretty cool...

    My wife and daughter would absolutely take issue with any suggestion Iron Man only appeals to young men. I know you didn't say "only", but the point remains that the days of any of the Marvel (and for that matter DC as well) IPs being appealing predominantly to one sex or the other is hopefully well in the past.


  • #1061
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    Is this a spiderman bot/fanboy? Sure he's cool, not that cool. The avengers have had 7 years of building up, several good films. Last really great spiderman film was 2004.

    I'm not a Spider-man fanboy at all. Just stating the reality that the Marvel universe will center around Spider-man after this phase due to him being Marvel's biggest property and pull. People seem to want to take point with this


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  • #1062
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    James74 wrote: »
    My wife and daughter would absolutely take issue with any suggestion Iron Man only appeals to young men. I know you didn't say "only", but the point remains that the days of any of the Marvel (and for that matter DC as well) IPs being appealing predominantly to one sex or the other is hopefully well in the past.

    Hopefully, it was just more a comparison to Spider-mans all round mass appeal


  • #1063
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Spider-Man maybe Marvel's biggest property, but to say that the whole MCU will revolve around him Post Phase 3 is downright foolish, i doubt those in charge would change their plans simply because they are now co-sharing the rights with Sony, i mean 12 films in & $8 billion grossed world-wide, i'd say the MCU has done alright without Spider-Man.


  • #1064
    James74
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭James74


    Just on the issue of Spiderman being Marvel's biggest property, a quick google suggests that both the Avengers films and IM3 outgrossed the three Sam Raimi films, and dwarfed the Amazing Spiderman movies, both of which were beaten by the relative unknowns that were the Guardian of the Galaxy.


  • #1065
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Spider-Man maybe Marvel's biggest property, but to say that the whole MCU will revolve around him Post Phase 3 is downright foolish, i doubt those in charge would change their plans simply because they are now co-sharing the rights with Sony.

    I meant focus predominately on him the way they have with Iron man until this point.

    Out of curiosity, how long do you think the MCU can last with actors getting older and maybe not signing new contracts going forward etc? And what will happen after? Will they take a break from Marvel films or try and reboot a whole MCU and start from the beginning again?


  • #1066
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    James74 wrote: »
    Just on the issue of Spiderman being Marvel's biggest property, a quick google suggests that both the Avengers films and IM3 outgrossed the three Sam Raimi films, and dwarfed the Amazing Spiderman movies, both of which were beaten by the relative unknowns that were the Guardian of the Galaxy.

    I already addressed most of those points


  • #1067
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    I meant focus predominately on him the way they have with Iron man until this point.

    Out of curiosity, how long do you think the MCU can last with actors getting older and maybe not signing new contracts going forward etc? And what will happen after? Will they take a break from Marvel films or try and reboot a whole MCU and start from the beginning again?

    They won't focus predominately on him like they have with Iron Man, hell if it wasn't for Iron Man being such a smash hit and kick starting the whole MCU, we wouldn't be having this discussion.. The main core of Avengers are contracted up until Infinity War Parts 1 & 2 respectively, I would imagine, for example when Chris Evans's contract is up, he might not renew, so Disney/Marvel could toss either Sebastian Stan or Anthony Mackie into the role of Cap and go from there, why would a reboot of the MCU be required, absolutely no point in rehashing stories we've already seen. Could just as easily move actors around to fill whatever role has been vacated as pointed out with the Chris Evans example..


  • #1068
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    They won't focus predominately on him like they have with Iron Man, hell if it wasn't for Iron Man being such a smash hit and kick starting the whole MCU, we wouldn't be having this discussion.. The main core of Avengers are contracted up until Infinity War Parts 1 & 2 respectively, I would imagine, for example when Chris Evans's contract is up, he might not renew, so Disney/Marvel could toss either Sebastian Stan or Anthony Mackie into the role of Cap and go from there, why would a reboot of the MCU be required, absolutely no point in rehashing stories we've already seen. Could just as easily move actors around to fill whatever role has been vacated as pointed out with the Chris Evans example..

    Iron man wasn't really a smash hit. It's the avengers brand that has pulled most of these secondary characters up, bar Hulk, who was already well known. It does help that Downey has effectively become Stark though, like Jackman and Wolverine as you say. Downeys popularity (and Iron Mans) has steadily grown due to being the center of the Avengers though. I'd say the universe will really start to wane if they started getting new actors in though. Everything has a lifespan.

    Personally I'd prefer if they left Spiderman out of the Avengers altogether but have him operate within the same universe but that won't happen. He's too big a character with so many top villains to be bogged down in the Avengers. We still haven't seen Carnage yet. But that couldn't work as when Carnage is on the rampage all the other Avengers will be conveniently "out" no doubt. It will become farcical. So he'll have to be in the Avengers unfortunately


  • #1069
    Cows Go µ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 902 ✭✭✭Cows Go µ


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    I meant focus predominately on him the way they have with Iron man until this point.

    Out of curiosity, how long do you think the MCU can last with actors getting older and maybe not signing new contracts going forward etc? And what will happen after? Will they take a break from Marvel films or try and reboot a whole MCU and start from the beginning again?

    I'm assuming in the next phase of movies one of Doctor Strange, Spiderman, Black Panther or Captain Marvel will become a fan favourite and the movies will perhaps focus on him/her more like they do with Stark now. It's possible that will be Spiderman but it's entirely possible that it will be one of the others. Yes Spidey is a well known name and his comics are always popular (even if his movies aren't) but Iron man wasn't exactly a household name and look what happened with him. Same with Loki for that matter. If an actor does stand out performance and there's good writing then it could be any of the new characters.

    And I'm definitely not worried about them rebooting the MCU, Feige has a grand plan and unless the next phase completely tanks it's not going to need to be rebooted. They have really large number of characters to draw from before they need to rehash the old ones.


  • #1070
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Iron man wasn't really a smash hit. It's the avengers brand that has pulled most of these secondary characters up, bar Hulk, who was already well known. It does help that Downey has effectively become Stark though, like Jackman and Wolverine as you say. Downeys popularity (and Iron Mans) has steadily grown due to being the center of the Avengers though. I'd say the universe will really start to wane if they started getting new actors in though. Everything has a lifespan

    Iron Man wasn't a smash hit you say, well buddy that's where you're wrong
    The film was a critical and commercial success, grossing over $585 million
    Now if a film being a criticial and commercial success and drawing almost $600 million dollars doesn't make a smash hit, i don't know what does, but then again you might have a different idea of what makes a movie a smash hit..


  • #1071
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    Iron Man wasn't a smash hit you say, well buddy that's where you're wrong

    Now if a film being a criticial and commercial success and drawing almost $600 million dollars doesn't make a smash hit, i don't know what does, but then again you might have a different idea of what makes a movie a smash hit..

    I'd call the like of Iron Man 3, the Avengers or Dark Knight smash hits. Iron Man 1, not really. I'd say 750 million+ would be smash hit territory


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  • #1072
    brianregan09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,481 ✭✭✭brianregan09


    At the end of the day Marvel Studios aren't going to put a property they don't fully own at the forefront of any movie , Unless they regain 100% rights which is possible it'd be downright foolish of them to build a character they half own to be a massive juggernaut and then have renegotiate with sony to keep there half

    Regardless of how any marvel films have done in the past future or present, This is a fact


  • #1073
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    brianregan09 wrote: »
    At the end of the day Marvel Studios aren't going to put a property they don't fully own at the forefront of any movie , Unless they regain 100% rights which is possible it'd be downright foolish of them to build a character they half own to be a massive juggernaut and then have renegotiate with sony to keep there half

    Regardless of how any marvel films have done in the past future or present, This is a fact

    Why not? It's in Marvels own interest to make Avengers as big as they can. Once he features they'll have to pay Sony regardless, so that's fairly irrelevant to him being central or not. Also, he's still a fully owned Marvel property outside the movies. Him fronting the movies means lots more money through other Spider-man related channels they 100% own. The lad has carried Marvel on his back for the last 50 years, they're hardly gonna make him a secondary character


  • #1074
    Kaia Narrow Handlebar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Kaia Narrow Handlebar


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Why not? It's in Marvels own interest to make Avengers as big as they can. Once he features they'll have to pay Sony regardless, so that's fairly irrelevant to him being central or not. Also, he's still a fully owned Marvel property outside the movies. Him fronting the movies means lots more money through other Spider-man related mediums they 100% own. The lad has carried Marvel on his back for the last 50 years, they're hardly gonna make him a secondary character

    x men are bigger than spidey


  • #1075
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Kaia Narrow Handlebar wrote: »
    x men are bigger than spidey

    I love X-men, but not even close.


  • #1076
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    I dunno, I don't think spiderman is that popular. I mean the MCU has done fine without him up to his point, his inclusion is just a nice bonus at this point.

    I'd almost say spiderman himself isn't as important as being able to use his villains again are, cos spidey has some great villains. Same with the F4.


  • #1077
    Lithium93_
    Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    IRON FIST to begin shooting next Spring

    http://ikwiz.com/watch.asp?id=19823&name=BREAKING+NEWS%3A+Marvel%27s+Netflix+IRON+FIST+Series+Character+Breakdowns+%7C+That+Hashtag+Show


  • #1078
    Varik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,547 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    IRON FIST to begin shooting next Spring

    http://ikwiz.com/watch.asp?id=19823&name=BREAKING+NEWS%3A+Marvel%27s+Netflix+IRON+FIST+Series+Character+Breakdowns+%7C+That+Hashtag+Show

    Thought that got replaced by the Punisher.


  • #1079
    Tefral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Varik wrote: »
    Thought that got replaced by the Punisher.

    Didnt the punisher get pushed into DareDevil instead?!


  • #1080
    Varik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,547 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    cronin_j wrote: »
    Didnt the punisher get pushed into DareDevil instead?!

    Don't think it was Dare Devil but he got pushed into one of the other shows, and Punisher took the spot.


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  • #1081
    Loughc
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 24,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Varik wrote: »
    Don't think it was Dare Devil but he got pushed into one of the other shows, and Punisher took the spot.

    The next season of Daredevil is Daredevil vs The Punisher.


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