Marvel Cinematic Universe general stuff

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493574#Comment_121493574

Oh they could easily pay him off. Regardless of Phase 4, they're Scrooge McDuck'ing in money from Phases 1-3.

Even then, paying him off could be less costly than people boycotting movies because Majors is in them, and even if there's no domestic violence charges brought against him, he's shown himself to be very manipulative and controlling. He's tarnished to the point where Marvel buying out his contract (given that they nabbed him when he wasn't a big name so he may not have been on huge money) could be more cost-effective at this point.

pixelburp

I'm not even sure people would boycott the films based off of Majors behaviour - but like Ezra Miller, it could be a situation where their very presence poisons the well; that instead of talking about the big upcoming blockbuster and how the MCU is shaking out, everything is just continuous bad press about the giant ásshole at the centre of it all.

CastorTroy

How many people that watch the films would know the news about him or care? It's not like it's getting Johnny Depp level of coverage.

Foxtrol

I'm not sure how some square watching any movies if an actor being 'conceited' is justifiable grounds for them losing their career. I doubt many of your friends or family would like to be recorded in your worst moments when having an argument with a partner - especially under the context that only one side knew the recording was happening and can tailor and edit the conversation.

The list of successful actors who have never acted conceited in public or private is tiny. Same people calling for Majors' head now continue to fawn over Tom Cruises movies, who has a lot longer list of accusations against him. Seems like people grasping for an excuse in case he is found not guilty - I'll keep my suspicions as to why he is being treated to a different standard to myself.

As for media attention, the video of him trying to get away from her being the aggressor and her chasing him for several blocks seems to be getting a lot of media attention and I suspect if he is acquitted the story might pivot that direction more, whether enough to salvage his career remains to be seen. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was him chasing her like that he'd rightfully never work again.

https://twitter.com/big_business_/status/1735010570649182348

There is a definite argument that someone should not be trusted to be one of the faces of an enormous franchise who has poor enough decision making to stay in such a clearly toxic relationship that could explode like this. He has already brought enough bad press for him to get the boot and obviously if any of the violence claims can be proven his position isn't tenable.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121495141#Comment_121495141

There's a fairly long standing pattern to follow here though... like, you reference Cruise, and Robert Downey Jr is another in the same filmic universe - your career doesn't need to end, but in the immediate aftermath of these things there's always a drop. Cruise had a massive drop, as did RDJ, and they worked their way back up when their craziness was less in the public eye. I'd expect the same here. He'll get dropped from the highest profile gig in the film world while his issues are at their most public, he'll do smaller things for a while, and work himself back into good spots in a few years time.

Zero-Cool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496775#Comment_121496775

Sounds like a plan 😂

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121496775#Comment_121496775

That is probably pretty likely - however it doesn't change the hypocrisy of folks calling for his head while championing other actors with a longer list of accusations.

I do feel there is a chance that if he gets acquitted the narrative turns to one of him being a victim. If not of a victim of his girlfriend then a victim of the DA, who took the case to court with changing complaint and so little evidence - not charging her also when there is arguably more against her. That is the line his defense attorney pushed today during closing, rather than just playing to reasonable doubt. It was PR as much as trying to get him off.

In that scenario race would understandably come into play and it wont be easy for Marvel to drop him then. The woman in question, and or others, going to the media with their stories could change things again - however the media and public like easy narratives so they'll pick a side and everything will be framed around that.

The White Wolf

I'm fairly sure I read those messages weeks ago if not months ago. It's nothing new.

I don't like how Majors spoke to her, but at worst he's an insanely egotistical actor and for that he can join a long line.

The other testimony does not paint her in a good light at all and he's an idiot for getting involved, but it doesn't deserve a career being destroyed based on what's been said so far.

The problem is that Marvel have his career in their hands, because if they drop him, it will be very hard for him to shake that. RDJ was an addict. Cruise at worst is into weird religious ****. These things can be rectified in recultivating an image. Being dropped for domestic assault by the biggest studio in Hollywood is a whole other kettle of fish.

pixelburp

Never actually said Majors "deserved" to have a career ruined, so no intention defending things I didn't say. Wish Ignore lists scrubbed quoted posts. Odd that in my "worst moments" I've never shouted at and dictated to my wife how and when she conducted her social life. Or who she brought home. Though if I started bollicking on that I was a Great Man, she'd probably just laugh hysterically at me 🤭

However, his pomposity in comparison with the actual career he has had so far makes the thing darkly hilarious and he's quickly making himself not worth the effort vs. the reward. As Penn noted, his most famous role is Kang the Conqueror. If this is how he is before he's properly famous?

Now on the other hand, if proven true, his career deserves to be ruined if the domestic violence charges and evidence are confirmed. Then he can rot on the CW or whoever will take him.

https://twitter.com/cheyenneisround/status/1734984984325157356

pjohnson

The fact Kang has been so midling in his reception, mostly because of Majors ropey performances would mean a recast could be very welcome to try and salvage this phase.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497527#Comment_121497527

Whatdya mean, his stu-stu-stu-stuttering Victor Timely was an important piece of work for the culture, and instantly iconic 🤭

When all's said and done, Kang is a terrible character with a mediocre motivation. Part of Thanos' genius was both an immediate existential and relatable motivation (overpopulation! I'm the good guy, really!), and several characters had a direct relationship with him to sweeten the drama.

Kang is a cartoon ranting about Multiverses and if there's one thing being a Doctor Who fan has taught me, you can scale your threat too high and too abstract that it loses all sense of tangibility or urgency. All of creation, and variances besides!! Ok, so what, what does that mean?

Maybe the better Phase 4 villain would have been a curveball choice like Mr Fantastic - who has been a comic villain IIRC? A flawed hero who takes a turn to the dark, his plans somewhat relatable and would have a bunch of other characters to bounce off. You get the hype of legacy characters turning up, plus the shock of the good guy gone rogue. Michelle Pfeiffer worrying about a guy with laser beam hands is like, ok, sure?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497590#Comment_121497590

I think it's the Mr.Fantastic from the Ultimates universe (the same comic universe that Miles Morales was in, separate to the main comics universe) who became a villian. I doubt they could have done Mr.Fantastic as the villian though, especially when they'll definitely want to be using the F4 as MCU headliners going forward. But even then, Doctor Doom is right there.

Kang was more a means to an end. Yeah his motivations and history are pretty one-note compared to Thanos, but when doing so many Multiverse stories, Kang was the obvious choice for over-arching big bad because of how he fits into that. It's not that the bad guy is "Kang" (who as we've seen, could be defeated by Ant-Man of all people), it's that the villians are all "Kangs"; a multiverse of near-infinite Kangs requiring a multiverse of heroes from all the previous MCU and non-MCU films to fight, and where at the end they can whack it all together and keep all the characters they want.

Infinity War worked because it was a movie about Thanos rather than the Avengers. I don't think we ever would have gotten similar for Kang. He's just a bad guy, and in each universe he talks funny in a different way. That's it.

Maybe they will keep him on, but just diminish his role in it to the point where he's little more than just playing Ultron's army of robots. Then rather than have him play a version of Kang as The Beyonder in Secret Wars, have someone else play that role and that they were the one manipulating all the Kangs in order to bring the multiverse of heroes together.

We already know Secret Wars is happening. Maybe that's the way to keep Majors in the Kang role but pare down his prominence and put a new actor in as the real big bad behind him.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497644#Comment_121497644

Kang was more a means to an end. Yeah his motivations and history are pretty one-note compared to Thanos, but when doing so many Multiverse stories, Kang was the obvious choice for over-arching big bad because of how he fits into that. It's not that the bad guy is "Kang" (who as we've seen, could be defeated by Ant-Man of all people), it's that the villians are all "Kangs"; a multiverse of near-infinite Kangs requiring a multiverse of heroes from all the previous MCU and non-MCU films to fight, and where at the end they can whack it all together and keep all the characters they want.

Yeah it's probably where it's all going but narratively, it reads like a terrible idea cos the solution to "all the heroes" isn't "all the heroes time infinity!!" IMO. Death becomes meaningless once there are 3 more Thor's down the line. Things don't need to go smaller but they have to stay personal. Even Infinity War's madness had emotional cores, as you say it was really about Thanos and his relationship with Gamora / Nebula. Where you establish that with Kang I can't see; maybe it'll come.

You look at the SpiderVerse films and it has its own infinity of spider-people (and T-Rex's, cats and pigs): but the movies excel and are, frankly, some of the best superhero films ever made, precisely because the stakes were kept personal and immediate. Miles dealing with the insanity of his universe Vs the emotional response of "canon" and the fate of his dad. Ditto Gwen, Miguel and so on. Big ideas, small scale concerns.

While something like Everything Everywhere All At Once did similar: all the universes to play with, sanity be damned, but the crux of the story came back to a mum and daughter reconciling their differences.

But then, maybe this retooling that's coming is gonna address all this - but it's already on the back foot imo, which ain't great.

johnny_ultimate

Kang is Majors’ least interesting role - a genuine ‘where did this guy come from?’ performance in The Last Black Man In San Francisco, and only seemed to be on the up and up. Magazine Dreams seems like it would’ve been a real awards player for him and potential career-guarantor, but now the film is likely to be buried.

He is a rather remarkable screen presence, but the various allegations about his behaviour seem pretty nasty even if he’s acquitted in this trial. At best, we’re looking at a promising career soured through his own actions.

Penn

https://twitter.com/ScarletWitchUpd/status/1734901571685618155?s=20

Agatha show rumoured to have undergone another name change. It's now "Agatha House of Harkness Coven of Chaos Darkhold Diaries All Along"

This feels very panicky, like they have to try remind people that this is a show about the character they liked early in Phase 4. They may as well have renamed it "Agatha: REMEMBER THE SONG! YOU LIKED THE SONG!"

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498651#Comment_121498651

Watching Agents of Shield I cant help but think how much of a missed opportunity it was not keeping it going and tied to the MCU as loosely tied as it was.

The longer multi-series characters really could have led much better into any supposed spin offs and led to a much better handling of new characters in general.

Its insane that Bob and Hunter never got past an unaired pilot and Robbie never got his own Ghost Rider.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498719#Comment_121498719

Dont think I'd agree.

I loved the show but it had too many seasons for casual MCU fans to get onboard who came later in the game. If a general moan is about characters being introduced from shows like Wandavision which is 6 hours long, they'd lose their minds if they had to go watch 100 hours of AoS.

I also really enjoyed those characters in AoS but that spin off sounded terrible - it was one of those where there was just no need for it.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121498719#Comment_121498719

It was kind of a dumb idea to do an Agents of Shield show when the films were literally going to destroy SHIELD before the end of the first season. They made it work, but they really had to make a lot of concessions to then make SHIELD just be Coulson's team, a few underground bases, they're now dark ops etc. At that point, they could never interconnect with the MCU in any real way.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497498#Comment_121497498

I've had plenty of couple friends over the years, male and female, who have had issues with the drinking of their other half. Usually it comes to a boil when they are at different stages in their life, one wanting to settle down and the other stay partying or when they have different employment status, one being employed and funding the household. I agree that I hope none of them called themselves 'great' during the discussions but at the same time I wouldn't frame them voicing their feelings about the other person's actions and how it is impacting them as terribly controlling. Some people stay in relationships that are toxic when they shouldn't but love and attraction make people do dumb.

On the person you've been repeatedly shared tweets of, if you look through their timeline there isn't one mention of anything that points to Majors being potentially innocent. They clearly have a view that they are trying to push, like it seems with a decent number of the more active reporters on twitter who are tied to this case (mostly in their tweets, the stories themselves tend to be more balanced).

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499851#Comment_121499851

I kind of assumed that was part of the point... that from the outset they knew SHIELD was just a staging platform to get to know the characters, before they get to spin off into their own adventures. And while it doesn't interconnect with the MCU directly, it's kind of cool that you're seeing the story dynamic change as a result of movie stuff - like, this group of people have to adapt to stuff outside their control that we've seen happen in the movies. Was no harm for it anyway, it's a show that grew into itself once they had more freedom to go do mad stuff in an ever-expanding universe.

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497498#Comment_121497498

That wasn't directed at yourself, I was speaking in broad terms as plenty of people on social media are asking for his head. I'm just saying that an actor's bad behaviour is a rabbit hole probably not worth going down in determining whether they get to work.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500043#Comment_121500043

A big part of it goes beyond public perception too, and is just the actual practical ratio of talent/professional behaviour. We've seen plenty of really talented actors who just became too egomaniacal to be worth the hassle of working so closely with them for long periods of time. It's such an intense working environment, and if someone is a pain in the hole to be around it's just not worth having them. Chevy Chase an obvious one, while Michael Pitt looked like the next big thing for a while before everyone just decided he was too difficult to work with. Given the number of complaints that've since come out saying similar of Majors - not illegal stuff, just bad-company ego stuff - that could well have a big impact on his career.

The White Wolf

Jesus I had to look up Michael Pitt there to see what he's at. That's a full breakdown right there.

Being consistently difficult to work with I feel is a whole other ball game, as there is nobody to blame but one's self for not getting work. If that's the reason Majors' work dries up then that is absolutely fair enough but so far, it looks like he's been able to stay on the right side of not stepping over the line with his co workers or the people paying him.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500123#Comment_121500123

Has there been a bunch of reports of him being a hassle to work with?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500239#Comment_121500239

Yeah, a whole bunch of bits came out after this case was made public.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/jonathan-majors-abuse-allegations-yale-1234781136/

It seems he's just a very very intense guy, and when he sees things that are what he would consider to be less than perfect that he can lash out instead of communicating more professionally. Seems a bit of a history of "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole" type behaviour on set and in university. You just really don't ever want your actors getting involved with stuff like that with crew... that's for the director, and even more-so the AD, to deal with.

Agent Coulson

He just comes across as a totally nasty piece of work and there are plenty of that kind in all work places all over the world and being an artist trying to find their character doesn't excuse it in anyway.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500374#Comment_121500374

Thanks. Seems to really have walked the line on set to date.

Allegedly crossed it a few times but nothing to the extent where it overshadowed his talent and he'd lose work (evidenced by the opportunities he was getting). Sounds like the sort of thing that had the potential to have gotten worse if he became more successful, now I presume the court case and media blow up, including that article, will have him changing his tune if he makes a comeback.

EoinMcLovin

https://youtu.be/kddZsqjuWuo?si=pWVmKAnCsAK3tS4e

____-

pixelburp

Will probably pass, only cos Echo didn't interest me that much as a character I'd wanna watch a whole series about her.

kerplun k

That video of JM running away and the lady chasing him is just bizarre. Both of them are grown ass adults and carrying on like children, and then all that talk of being a great man, it’s laughable. He’s a man child.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505218#Comment_121505218

who was running away?

kerplun k

Jonathan Majors. Gets out of the car and starts running through the streets. Did you see the clip?

Brief_Lives

I did not.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499763#Comment_121499763

The issue is theres so many wildly inconsistent shows being spat out it makes it hard to keep track of which ones are required to watch x movie.

If they had one show feeding characters into the MCU then it wouldn't be as confused as it currently is.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505849#Comment_121505849

Also, the anthology style shows are the most rewatchable. That What If show can effectively be watched standalone and everyone can dip into what interests them. The other Disney shows felt like a huge build up to something that fails to deliver by the end of the season cause it's a setup for another movie.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505849#Comment_121505849

It is absolutely an issue but AoS is worse. For the first few years it was 20+ episodes a season.

For all the faults of the current shows, they are much more digestible, especially if you just want to dive in.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506297#Comment_121506297

Can you give a few examples of your last sentence?

To me basically each season closed off as much as most shows do, like AoS for example. Yes, not everything is tied up but that is completely normal for a TV, as they are setting up the next season - with MCU shows it might be a new season or a movie.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505242#Comment_121505242

I posted it earlier. He starts trying to get away from her after he walks her to the sidewalk at around 50 seconds in and then she runs after him for several blocks (she testified she only walked after him while under oath, even after being shown the video). There's really more evidence that she was the aggressor than him.

https://twitter.com/big_business_/status/1735010570649182348?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1735010570649182348%7Ctwgr%5Ee6f36f3ddfe4a77ef8766a82d457010d94b9e5d6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fdiscussion%2F2057266639%2Fmarvel-cinematic-universe-general-stuff%2Fp126

Brief_Lives

thats bizarre.

Agent Coulson

With all the cameos likely in Deadpool 3 it had me wondering will Channing Tatum finally get to play Gambit on the big screen even for a couple scenes.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507694#Comment_121507694

Be more surprised if he isnt as I think Tatum and Reynolds are friends IRL so cant see Reynolds missing the opportunity.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507596#Comment_121507596

Wandavision being the worst payoff as season's ends go. Instead of an interesting closing act, you had a setup for what ended up key to the Dr Strange movie. So that's probably the greatest offender imho. Falcon felt like more a general setup and retention of Walker, on off chance he's useful to have later on.

Meanwhile I had mixed feelings on the Netflix TV shows but their overall quality was far superior in terms of just being their own thing.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121507742#Comment_121507742

Wandavision closed out the way most seasons of TV shows do by closing out the Westview story.

What difference does it make that it led into a movie rather than another season of a TV show?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508571#Comment_121508571

If you're watching a TV show, then a setup for a next season is fine. However it's not necessarily a great scenario for an audience who will happily watch a movie but have no interest in an associated TV show.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508571#Comment_121508571

It meant Wandavision was required watching prior to Doctor Strange 2, anyone who was only interested in the films would have been very confused about Wandas actions without it.

And there are a lot of people who have no interest in putting in the time to watch every piece of Marvel entertainment so they can enjoy the films. Disney looks to have learned this though when they said TV shows will be largely separate in future.

The great thing about the infinity saga was you could generally enjoy the films in isolation or as part of a larger story, whichever the viewer was interested in. Since that finished and the Disney TV shows started they’ve prioritised having their films set something up rather than be their own thing(with the notable exception of GOTG3, by far the best Marvel film of recent years).

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508752#Comment_121508752

I completely understand the complaint about having to watch a show before a movie.

Your point I was disagreeing with is this

The other Disney shows felt like a huge build up to something that fails to deliver by the end of the season cause it's a setup for another movie.

The Disney shows have only left open as much as the majority of TV shows that know they have another season coming

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508755#Comment_121508755

The great thing about the infinity saga was you could generally enjoy the films in isolation or as part of a larger story, whichever the viewer was interested in.

I don't understand this, especially the bold. I see very little difference from then and now when it comes to enjoying the movies post Endgame if you've missed something. If you skipped a movie you weren't going to understand everything, especially details of a character arc. For example, if you missed Winter Soldier you weren't going to 'get' a lot of the background in Civil War. Marvel have always done a good job in filling gaps and continue to.

The biggest difference is that those who are now skipping shows never skipped movies, so are getting their first taste of what a sizeable proportion of the general public have felt over the years and are being far more vocal about it. The general public understand that if they haven't seen everything they're going to not get everything so rarely complained.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508755#Comment_121508755

It's funny 'cos a repeated frustration with Agents of SHIELD was how crudely and bluntly it avoided any hard link with the MCU - but then the opposite approach doesn't quite work either. Seems like when it comes to media crossover, it's best as a one directional movement, with television informed by the movies, but not vice-versa?

The MCU has spread itself too thin, too ad-hoc and slightly presumptuous of its audience, and the reported rejigging hard evidence that even Marvel knows this as well.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510354#Comment_121510354

They are in no-mans land now. They made just keeping up with everything too much hard work even for the small core comic book fans. Total overload. For casual audiences it's a disaster.

The White Wolf

In defence of Marvel Studios, it looks like Wonka will struggle in the box office even after very good reviews.

I don't think there's any easy solution for what's happening. The cinema going audience is at a level of unheard of unpredictability.