Help identify bird?

dockleaf

Any ideas on this bird, please?

Twas Not

dockleaf wrote: »

Any ideas on this bird, please?

Is it a plover?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Twas Not wrote: »

Is it a plover?

Every bird seems to be a plover to you.

A sparrowhawk!

IrishDerbyfan

funny! We get a lot of people asking about Sparrowhawks. It must be due to a surge in populations in the urban and garden habitat. There's never been so many, but probably much fewer kestrels than years ago. Although I'd say it's the buzzard that has filled the kestrel niche.

dodderangler

IrishDerbyfan wrote: »

funny! We get a lot of people asking about Sparrowhawks. It must be due to a surge in populations in the urban and garden habitat. There's never been so many, but probably much fewer kestrels than years ago. Although I'd say it's the buzzard that has filled the kestrel niche.

Kestrels are gettin rarer and seems since the buzzards came about they've disappeared. Are they having that much of an effect of them ?

B0jangles

Weird, I saw our local hen sparrowhawk only about an hour ago - she looks like a giant rocket-powered thrush when she does a fly-by.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dodderangler wrote: »

Kestrels are gettin rarer and seems since the buzzards came about they've disappeared. Are they having that much of an effect of them ?

In three locations that I monity closely the kestrel has more or less disappeared since buzzards took up residence.

Capercaille

dodderangler wrote: »

Kestrels are gettin rarer and seems since the buzzards came about they've disappeared. Are they having that much of an effect of them ?

Buzzards would have a negative effect on Kestrels, but major cause of decline is thought to secondary poisoning by 3rd generation warfarin poisons.

OpenYourEyes

Farming practices that reduce the availability of prey, and loss of natural nest sites are also important factors implicated in their decline - lest anyone get the impression it's all the Buzzards fault!

dodderangler

No it's all the buzzards fault.
Rabble rabble rabble

dockleaf

Thanks for the replies, my initial thought was sparrowhawk but then I was wondering if it could be a female hen harrier- nice to see it.

Zoo4m8

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Farming practices that reduce the availability of prey, and loss of natural nest sites are also important factors implicated in their decline - lest anyone get the impression it's all the Buzzards fault!

Farming practices haven't changed round here in decades.. And there has been no loss of nest sites... Yet the kestrel nest in a stand of conifers two fields from my house after nearly forty years of continuous use has not been used for three years now, and when once kestrels were an almost daily sight I saw one yesterday for the first time this summer... Buzzards are now much more common..

OpenYourEyes

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Farming practices haven't changed round here in decades.. And there has been no loss of nest sites... Yet the kestrel nest in a stand of conifers two fields from my house after nearly forty years of continuous use has not been used for three years now, and when once kestrels were an almost daily sight I saw one yesterday for the first time this summer... Buzzards are now much more common..

Farming practices mightn't have changed in your patch of the country, but unfortunately changes have a significant impact on the isolated spots where land management is more traditional.

Capercaille

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Farming practices haven't changed round here in decades.. And there has been no loss of nest sites... Yet the kestrel nest in a stand of conifers two fields from my house after nearly forty years of continuous use has not been used for three years now, and when once kestrels were an almost daily sight I saw one yesterday for the first time this summer... Buzzards are now much more common..

What part of the Country are you in? Farming practices have become more intensified in virtually the whole Country?

Desmo

Capercaille wrote: »

What part of the Country are you in? Farming practices have become more intensified in virtually the whole Country?

Agree big time; I am in my fifties and remember most grazing being on permanent pasture and much saving of fodder still being done from hay meadows, at least up to the mid 80s. I left Irl in 1990 and when I got back in 1997, it all seemed to have changed. Then all fodder was saved as silage from mainly reseeded ryegrass. Meadows and old-fashioned pastures just disappeared over 90% of the country in a relatively short space of time. These days, spraying of stubble to kill weeds leaves nothing for a lot of small birds to feed on in the winter and hedges and roadside verges seem to be disappearing. Des

Capercaille

Desmo wrote: »

Agree big time; I am in my fifties and remember most grazing being on permanent pasture and much saving of fodder still being done from hay meadows, at least up to the mid 80s. I left Irl in 1990 and when I got back in 1997, it all seemed to have changed. Then all fodder was saved as silage from mainly reseeded ryegrass. Meadows and old-fashioned pastures just disappeared over 90% of the country in a relatively short space of time. These days, spraying of stubble to kill weeds leaves nothing for a lot of small birds to feed on in the winter and hedges and roadside verges seem to be disappearing. Des

Sadly yes. Seeing a traditional hay meadow in Ireland now is a rare sight. Mono-cultures of ryegrass mostly prevail:(.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Farming practices that reduce the availability of prey, and loss of natural nest sites are also important factors implicated in their decline - lest anyone get the impression it's all the Buzzards fault!

Absolutely. But the buzzard does seem to be dominant in succeeding with those scarcer resources.

bmc58

Definetly a small raptor of some sort.Probably a Kestrel or a Sparrowhawk.

bmc58

Twas Not wrote: »

Is it a plover?

Plover lives by water.

dodderangler

bmc58 wrote: »

Definetly a small raptor of some sort.Probably a Kestrel or a Sparrowhawk.

It a spar.

Zoo4m8

Capercaille wrote: »

What part of the Country are you in? Farming practices have become more intensified in virtually the whole Country?

In north Wicklow.. Depends what your version of intensified is .. Things haven't changed much in my patch in thirty years..

Zoo4m8

Desmo wrote: »

Agree big time; I am in my fifties and remember most grazing being on permanent pasture and much saving of fodder still being done from hay meadows, at least up to the mid 80s. I left Irl in 1990 and when I got back in 1997, it all seemed to have changed. Then all fodder was saved as silage from mainly reseeded ryegrass. Meadows and old-fashioned pastures just disappeared over 90% of the country in a relatively short space of time. These days, spraying of stubble to kill weeds leaves nothing for a lot of small birds to feed on in the winter and hedges and roadside verges seem to be disappearing. Des

Have you driven round the country this summer? If you have then you will have seen a huge amount of hay has been made.. The sheep farm next door to me has reseeded a couple of fields with what used to be known as ' wicklow mix' that includes some ryegrass with clovers and others.
I have been looking over a 200 acre farm for sale recently with a friend and it's all pasture in great heart .
Hedges are no longer disappearing unless building development is happening, a farmer getting permission now to remove a hedge has to replace it with one of equal length elsewhere .
Road verges disappearing? I wish they would round here, the back roads are lethal, it's a nightmare trying to cycle safely..

Capercaille

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

In north Wicklow.. Depends what your version of intensified is .. Things haven't changed much in my patch in thirty years..

Thirty years ago corncrake and Greg partridge were present in north Wicklow. Extinct now. Curlew bred in good numbers, hardly any left breeding now.

Capercaille

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Have you driven round the country this summer? If you have then you will have seen a huge amount of hay has been made.. The sheep farm next door to me has reseeded a couple of fields with what used to be known as ' wicklow mix' that includes some ryegrass with clovers and others.
I have been looking over a 200 acre farm for sale recently with a friend and it's all pasture in great heart .
Hedges are no longer disappearing unless building development is happening, a farmer getting permission now to remove a hedge has to replace it with one of equal length elsewhere .
Road verges disappearing? I wish they would round here, the back roads are lethal, it's a nightmare trying to cycle safely..

In years gone by the first cut of hay wasn't done till mid-august. People cutting hay this year were cutting in May/June which gives no time for wildflowers/grasses to seed. Not great for wildlife.
As for the hedgerows even with REPS (a failure) hedgerows have decreased in number and quality.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

In north Wicklow.. Depends what your version of intensified is .. Things haven't changed much in my patch in thirty years..

Not much change here either in the past 30 years. If anything there is more rough pasture and more fields left for hay than there was a few decades back. Land is certainly now less intensively grazed than it used to be.

Zoo4m8

Capercaille wrote: »

Thirty years ago corncrake and Greg partridge were present in north Wicklow. Extinct now. Curlew bred in good numbers, hardly any left breeding now.

Really? In 1964 I heard the last corncrake in our parish, fifty years ago..we had an out farm in Kilcoole with strong numbers of grey partridge till about 1961, fifty three years ago...
Curlew bred in good numbers all over the country..

Zoo4m8

Capercaille wrote: »

In years gone by the first cut of hay wasn't done till mid-august. People cutting hay this year were cutting in May/June which gives no time for wildflowers/grasses to seed. Not great for wildlife.
As for the hedgerows even with REPS (a failure) hedgerows have decreased in number and quality.

In years gone by there was one cut of hay and that was late June/ early July depending on the weather, I never saw hay cut in mid August, the grass would have long gone over at that time and would have had no feed value.
I haven't seen any hay cut in May this year, it was the ideal hay weather conditions in June/July that encouraged a lot of men to make hay rather then silage.
REPS a failure? How do you make that out? Hedgerows have decreased in number over the years but have now stablized, leaving aside the developer damage.
How have they decreased in quality? As I'm quite sure you well know there are incentives and variety guides now to encourage diversification in new and existing hedgerows..

Capercaille

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

In years gone by there was one cut of hay and that was late June/ early July depending on the weather, I never saw hay cut in mid August, the grass would have long gone over at that time and would have had no feed value.
I haven't seen any hay cut in May this year, it was the ideal hay weather conditions in June/July that encouraged a lot of men to make hay rather then silage.
REPS a failure? How do you make that out? Hedgerows have decreased in number over the years but have now stablized, leaving aside the developer damage.
How have they decreased in quality? As I'm quite sure you well know there are incentives and variety guides now to encourage diversification in new and existing hedgerows..

Last year I made my first and only cut of silage in September. This year I'm cutting September 15. There was decent feeding in last years silage, obviously not as good as somebody who cut earlier. If the potash levels are good the grass will still stand tall if not mowed till late in the year. If the meadow is rank and has not been mowed in the previous year it would also have a tendency to "fall" over.

Regarding the quality of hedgerow a lot of hedges are trimmed excessively and that leads to a decreased berry crop which also hits wildlife.

REPS failed in preventing the declines of vulnerable farmland species like corncrake, quail, Grey partridge, lapwing, redshank, curlew and corn bunting (extinct). That is a failure.

Zoo4m8

Capercaille wrote: »

Last year I made my first and only cut of silage in September. This year I'm cutting September 15. There was decent feeding in last years silage, obviously not as good as somebody who cut earlier. If the potash levels are good the grass will still stand tall if not mowed till late in the year. If the meadow is rank and has not been mowed in the previous year it would also have a tendency to "fall" over.

Regarding the quality of hedgerow a lot of hedges are trimmed excessively and that leads to a decreased berry crop which also hits wildlife.

REPS failed in preventing the declines of vulnerable farmland species like corncrake, quail, Grey partridge, lapwing, redshank, curlew and corn bunting (extinct). That is a failure.

Silage and hay , two different animals.. It's not an issue whether the grass stands or falls, for hay it's when the grass goes to seed.
In my time meadows were closed round early April for cutting as I said late June early July, now if the grass was allowed to grow on it will go to seed and then wither and die therefore zero feed value, of course if you leave it long enough it will start to re grow and about mid Sept you will have a half decent crop , but , unlike silage which can just be cut and ensiled with a half decent dry day,here's the problem, you won't have the weather plus short days equal no drying equals grass rotting in the fields, but of course you know all this but our urban readers don't ..
I agree, some hedgerows are cut way to hard and there is not enough thought given to encouraging trees, holly etc, but I repeat the key word here is 'some'.
REPS was not set up to prevent the decline of farmland birds but as an early step to encourage envoiremental awareness and help prevent further loss and damage through education/incentive
The corncrake, quail, grey partridge and lapwing were almost at rock bottom and the corn bunting was extinct BEFORE REPS was set up and a general purpose envoiremental scheme could not be expected to address declines that need specialist and concentrated attention, e.g. the work with the grey partridge at Boora. As a vehicle to encourage countryside education I would consider it a success and as ongoing SPF's are going to be increasingly tied to considerate farming practice it was an important part in laying the 'foundations'

Capercaille

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Silage and hay , two different animals.. It's not an issue whether the grass stands or falls, for hay it's when the grass goes to seed.
In my time meadows were closed round early April for cutting as I said late June early July, now if the grass was allowed to grow on it will go to seed and then wither and die therefore zero feed value, of course if you leave it long enough it will start to re grow and about mid Sept you will have a half decent crop , but , unlike silage which can just be cut and ensiled with a half decent dry day,here's the problem, you won't have the weather plus short days equal no drying equals grass rotting in the fields, but of course you know all this but our urban readers don't ..
I agree, some hedgerows are cut way to hard and there is not enough thought given to encouraging trees, holly etc, but I repeat the key word here is 'some'.
REPS was not set up to prevent the decline of farmland birds but as an early step to encourage envoiremental awareness and help prevent further loss and damage through education/incentive
The corncrake, quail, grey partridge and lapwing were almost at rock bottom and the corn bunting was extinct BEFORE REPS was set up and a general purpose envoiremental scheme could not be expected to address declines that need specialist and concentrated attention, e.g. the work with the grey partridge at Boora. As a vehicle to encourage countryside education I would consider it a success and as ongoing SPF's are going to be increasingly tied to considerate farming practice it was an important part in laying the 'foundations'

As regards feed value, if your meadow is a mono-culture of fast growing ryegrass it will, as you said, be of limited value if left to cut in September. If your meadow is species rich meadow with slower growing wild grasses and wildflowers it will produce a decent crop in September. Whether the grass stands or falls is important. In the old days when cutting was by hand it had to be standing for the scythe to cut it. Species like corncrake/skylark will abandon meadows that have fallen over. Meadows that are cut in June/July will rapidly lead to eradication of vulnerable species like corncrake.
Part of the REPS remit was to help halt declines in farmland birds. REPS was a very broad scheme that delivered little for biodiversity. It struggled to deliver targeted conservation action to individual species. A land where skylarks are no longer considered a farmland bird is a sad place.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

What was the ID for that bird again?

Birdnuts

Kasen Delicious Ignoramus wrote: »

In three locations that I monity closely the kestrel has more or less disappeared since buzzards took up residence.

Larger BOPs will tend to dominate smaller ones. An extreme example is the case of eagle-owls which will pretty much clean out most other BOPS within a few miles of their nest. Just the natural order of things. Ireland lost most of her larger BOPs in the past 200 years, so with their return a certain natural rebalancing is to be expected.

Having said that I know of a quarry in the "Greater Dublin" area where 4 species of raptor(Spar,Buzzard, Kestrel, Peregrine) all bred this year within a few hundred yards of each other. The quarry concerned is only 600 acres in size.

dodderangler

Kasen Delicious Ignoramus wrote: »

What was the ID for that bird again?

What bird??

Alun

It was a plover wasn't it?

dodderangler

Alun wrote: »

It was a plover wasn't it?

Everything is a plover