Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

gormdubhgorm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I never watch em. I never watch movie trailers either. They’re tailored to morons who want the whole story condensed into a two minute segment so they can decide whether to watch or not.

Not necessarily true this moron still watches the episodes.
Gives a taster and gets the viewer wondering where they are going next.

I think they would be better off just showing a whole Montague (like Kim and Jimmy brushing teeth).... then again it might be too long....

KevinCavan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not necessarily true this moron still watches the episodes.
Gives a taster and gets the viewer wondering where they are going next.

I think they would be better off just showing a whole Montague (like Kim and Jimmy brushing teeth).... then again it might be too long....

**** me, I agree. I’ve never seen a show with the characters carrying out so many everyday tasks, like Jimmy making smoothies and as you mentioned Jimmy and Kim brushing their teeth. Next week hopefully we’ll get to see Jimmy take out the trash or go for a dump!

KevinCavan

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I'm 100% with you on this. It could be somewhat controversial seeing as BB at the time was the biggest show in the world. I honestly thought it couldn't be topped. BCS is a masterpiece.

Jeez lads relax. BCS is plodding along, each episode is stretched out to the absolute max, it is extremely slow moving. Mike is a bit of a bore in BCS. Kim is a bit irritating too. Saul as a main character isn’t as exciting as I thought he would be. Saul was brilliant as a minor character in BB. It feels like they take forever to get to the point in BCS. BB was a roller coaster of emotion in most episodes. Walter White was a truly thrilling character, no character comes close to him in BCS. As for arthouse, do you mean watching Jimmy make a health shake or Kim brush her teeth?

KevinCavan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly!
When I paused it after the montage (to get something to eat) it was only about 36 minutes left!
It was very noticeable that it was a time killer.
I like the show the editing etc.
But I am starting to feel he is taking advantage of the fans susceptibility to look at the production values and marvel at the slightest thing.
Meanwhile the storyline is on the slide a bit, and the pace has slowed even more.
I know it is not Breaking Bad.
Again, overall I enjoy the series, but I have to admit it kind of grates with me that some people seem to couch the series as 'more then just a show' etc.
It's just a telly programme.

Any negative criticism is called trolling by some. who see no flaws in the show, Or it is implied that people are not intelligent enough to enjoy the programme properly!

But a 36 minute show where damn all happens except predictable foreshadowing (DA Huell case scumbag lawyer), hammering home points, beautiful editing (brushing of teeth) and a plump orderly's arse.

The accident in the laundry had to happen to drag it out more.
My thoughts after the German fella said we are only less then half way through, was 'don't I know'

The only real thing of note was Fring's reaction to Hector.
The rest of the show although well done, felt like repetition and dare I say it 'arty' filler.
If the episode was taken out of the series (barring the Fring treatment bit) would it make much of difference? I am not sure.

A thousand thank yous, you hit the nail on the head. It is a mediocre show and they are dragging the arse out of it.

gormdubhgorm

KevinCavan wrote: »

Jeez lads relax. BCS is plodding along, each episode is stretched out to the absolute max, it is extremely slow moving.. It feels like they take forever to get to the point in BCS. BB was a roller coaster of emotion in most episodes

I have come to the conclusion that in BCS the writers have boxed themselves in with not many other places to go.
They have very little scope.

The general idea and premise of the show are good, but is being spread way too thin.
I get that that is the type of show it is not crash, bang wallop.
But they are milking BCS for what it's worth at this stage.

The main contrast for me between BB and BCS, is that BB seemed like a labour of love for it's creators.
But, BCS (at this stage) just seems like a cash cow living off the past glories off BB?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

So many of you hate the show and come here to moan about it. Have you ever tried...not watching it?

If I hate a show so much, guess what, I don’t watch it.

Watching a show you find boring then posting in a forum ABOUT that show saying how boring it is is literally my definition of pathetic.

I hated The Walking Dead. You’ll never guess what I did. I didn’t watch it. I also didn’t go and moan about it on the internet either.

Grayditch

People are entitled to moan about the show on the thread if they're frustrated with it, that's what a forum is for. I personally love it, but I've been told to stop complaining about Preacher on that thread. If you tell someone to ignore the show... that that advice and ignore them, sure.

gormdubhgorm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

So many of you hate the show and come here to moan about it. Have you ever tried...not watching it?

If I hate a show so much, guess what, I don’t watch it.

Watching a show you find boring then posting in a forum ABOUT that show saying how boring it is is literally my definition of pathetic.

I hated The Walking Dead. You’ll never guess what I did. I didn’t watch it. I also didn’t go and moan about it on the internet either.

Well I think it WAS an enjoyable show with peaks and throughs like any other.
But it seems to have lost it's way and is playing on people's confirmation bias.

Oh look great production values = great show.
Bad storyline = subtlety
Repetitive episodes = build up / suspense

Henryhill2

It's good but it I wouldn't call it a masterpiece.or anything like that

A few bits of scaffolding falling around and dodgy phones being sold meh

rubadub

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I never watch em. I never watch movie trailers either. They’re tailored to morons who want the whole story condensed into a two minute segment so they can decide whether to watch or not.

I have watched a few BCS preview trailers, they are nowhere near as revealing as some film trailers. I like the "last week on BCS" snippets at the start of an episode, they are nothing like the previews. The preview trailers really are "teasers" more than spoilers. I doubt anyone has watched one and thought "well I won't bother watching this weeks episode" (though you probably might have only meant films)

watching the preview for the episode just gone there would have been no spoilers that would have bugged me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd12rsvKJDk

Shane St.

Definitely slowed down the last 3 episodes. Hopefully it picks up again for the end of the season.

homerun_homer

Shane St. wrote: »

Definitely slowed down the last 3 episodes. Hopefully it picks up again for the end of the season.

You think that last episode was slow? It opened with a montage that skips ahead months so that Jimmy has now taken on the moniker of Saul finally and is prepping to open his new office. I wouldn't call that slow compared to recent episodes.

The Black Oil

The video of Gus reacting to Hector - was this juxtaposed with the division between Kim and Jimmy at the start?

Sal Butamol

If it wasn't for Mike, Gus and Hector I'd have given up on this ages ago.

That montage was self-indulgent ****e.

gormdubhgorm

homerun_homer wrote: »

You think that last episode was slow? It opened with a montage that skips ahead months so that Jimmy has now taken on the moniker of Saul finally and is prepping to open his new office. I wouldn't call that slow compared to recent episodes.

In fairness think he means the pacing of the episodes themselves.
The fact that they are now a few months further along the line did not make the pacing of the episode itself, move any faster.
In reality little happened, and it was like a very thin easter egg, but plenty of packaging (stylistic stuff) not much to get your teeth into.
We are now on chocolate rations.

gormdubhgorm

Sal Butamol wrote: »

If it wasn't for Mike, Gus and Hector I'd have given up on this ages ago.

That montage was self-indulgent ****e.

In fairness it was self-indulgent ****e, done well if you are into that stylistic/arty stuff, you would love it.
I thought it was good but over done and dragged out.
It would have been easy to cut that episode down a bit, and merge the next one with it?
I suppose I am more of the middle ground, I don't mind a bit of the stylistic stuff, but it felt like filler/time wasting because there was so much of it.

It seemed it was put there as a blocker/teaser before we get to see an episode where meaningful stuff happens.

Michelin

All this criticism since the last episode. I personally really enjoyed especially the intro.montage. I enjoy the story line of each character and fully appreciate the show is different to style than BB of which I have seen every episode of that also and enjoyed.
I come here to read and enjoy people's view and clever ideas regarding the plot but this week it's nothing but negative . Stop watching or stop whinging I say....back to the plot....

Boom_Bap

Deadly episode, so little but so much. Further evidence that Jimmy and Kim are going in different directions....but getting pulled back together for the scam.

I reckon they are going to go into court with Huell with loads of documents and files and details on old cases all annotated, highlighted, noted, etc. and basically bombard the prosecution with 'evidence'.
Basically saying Kim has a full team behind her and that the others can't compete.

But I reckon this will impact Kims career given that Jimmy has already pee'd off her boss.

Henryhill2

Best thing for me is the way Saul can just turn on the salesmanship gig at the drop of a hat.

I'm in the middle of BB but Walter White is such a grim one dimensional character in comparison

wylo

Jerichoholic wrote: »

I think possibly this crazy stationary scheme that Kim has dreamed up might be the end of her. Getting her cast off signified the end of her being tied to Jimmy and she's doing him this one last favor before they split.

I cant help but think she will do something really stupid and will get herself into serious trouble (no doubt as a direct result of Jimmys shenanegans)

Grayditch

Henryhill2 wrote: »

I'm in the middle of BB but Walter White is such a grim one dimensional character in comparison

I'd considered it one of the best character transformations in t.v.

Henryhill2

Grayditch wrote: »

I'd considered it one of the best character transformations in t.v.

Could be I'm no expert

noodler

I'd be closer to masterpiece on the spectrum.

_Kaiser_

Hunky Monster wrote: »

So many of you hate the show and come here to moan about it. Have you ever tried...not watching it?

If I hate a show so much, guess what, I don’t watch it.

Watching a show you find boring then posting in a forum ABOUT that show saying how boring it is is literally my definition of pathetic.

I hated The Walking Dead. You’ll never guess what I did. I didn’t watch it. I also didn’t go and moan about it on the internet either.

OK.. I've read the last three (40 posts each) pages and I have to comment on this.

I like this show, but it has always been a very slow series and traded on it's predecessor for success. The entire premise is how this guy becomes a character in that earlier show. It's not called "the advertures of Jimmy McGill"

Along the way we've had some interesting side-stories with Mike, Gus and others but as this season has progressed and they get close to that key point, it's clear that the writers are running out of ideas and indeed room to develop things further.

Recognising this does not make someone less of a fan, nor does it make someone "pathetic" :rolleyes: I'm forced to agree with the idea that some posters just take this show FAR, FAR too seriously! I don't watch this show to trawl through artistic nuance, obsess over every frame or look for hidden meanings in every line.... I watch it to be entertained.

This show gets a lot right in that regard, but that doesn't make it immune from the occasional misstep either!

_Kaiser_

On the episode itself... I have actually enjoyed this season as I think the whole Chuck v Jimmy thing was really bogging the show down for certainly the previous 2 seasons, and without that weight we've finally had room to move forward. At least in the meantime we had Mike, Gus, Nacho and a few others to keep the interest going.

But whereas the earlier seasons were often unnecessarily slow in places, now they're rushing rapidly to what feels like the end, and it's exposing the flaws. This episode can easily be skipped in a rewatch IMO as practically nothing important (even by this show's standards) happens that we couldn't have seen coming.

Kim is back to annoying me as she did in earlier seasons and her story just doesn't interest me.. it's another anchor dragging the show back. I've said it before, but if Gilligan really DID go with a Kim spin-off next, I wouldn't even bother.

But maybe (and no, the superfans will not appreciate this), the biggest issue with BCS is that there just wasn't that much there to begin with?

noodler

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On the episode itself... I have actually enjoyed this season as I think the whole Chuck v Jimmy thing was really bogging the show down for certainly the previous 2 seasons, and without that weight we've finally had room to move forward. At least in the meantime we had Mike, Gus, Nacho and a few others to keep the interest going.

But whereas the earlier seasons were often unnecessarily slow in places, now they're rushing rapidly to what feels like the end, and it's exposing the flaws. This episode can easily be skipped in a rewatch IMO as practically nothing important (even by this show's standards) happens that we couldn't have seen coming.

Kim is back to annoying me as she did in earlier seasons and her story just doesn't interest me.. it's another anchor dragging the show back. I've said it before, but if Gilligan really DID go with a Kim spin-off next, I wouldn't even bother.

But maybe (and no, the superfans will not appreciate this), the biggest issue with BCS is that there just wasn't that much there to begin with?

Wouldn't say superfans, kind of dissmisive.

I'd argue some people need more of BB's violence, crime, drugs, gangs etc to stay engaged.

I'm so impressed with what Gilligan can do with the more mundane aspects of his characters lives.

_Kaiser_

noodler wrote: »

Wouldn't say superfans, kind of dissmisive.

I'd argue some people need more of BB's violence, crime, drugs, gangs etc to stay engaged.

I'm so impressed with what Gilligan can do with the more mundane aspects of his characters lives.

I guess it comes down to premise, or expectation vs delivery.

Gilligan "sold" us a show in the BB universe, set around one of the more entertaining side-characters and how that character got to where he was/is. Along the way we get the back-story to other popular secondary characters like Mike and Gus.

BB is a very different show in many ways, but despite this, BCS has been (on balance) engaging AND entertaining over the last 4 seasons despite characters like Kim and Chuck who are - IMO - one-note drags on the show.

But as they get closer to the season finale, it seems like they could easily skip ahead again to BB S01E01 and nothing would be missed... inserting more padding and form-over-function scenes (from a plot/character development perspective) while painfully dragging out that main key point of the whole story (Jimmy finally and ultimately becoming Saul) isn't an acceptable substitute for the show we were promised... and THAT is why some people are becoming frustrated and critical.

They should have saved the "arthouse" indulgence for the Kim show... she is so one-dimensional that they'll need the filler there.

BandMember

I think the biggest problem with this series is two fold:

(1) We know where the journey ends up. Because of this, some people want to take the express train to the destination whereas others are enjoying the view on the leisurely paced Orient Express.
(2) Because we know where this ends up, some people want to get there quicker so that we can get more Breaking Bad parallel stories and, hopefully/possibly, some appearances from that cast as well.

That's my take on things anyway after seeing the last couple of pages since this weeks episode.........but hey.....what do I know....

_Kaiser_

BandMember wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with this series is two fold:

(1) We know where the journey ends up. Because of this, some people want to take the express train to the destination whereas others are enjoying the view on the leisurely paced Orient Express.
(2) Because we know where this ends up, some people want to get there quicker so that we can get more Breaking Bad parallel stories and, hopefully/possibly, some appearances from that cast as well.

That's my take on things anyway after seeing the last couple of pages since this weeks episode.........but hey.....what do I know....

I'd agree with you, but I'd add that many do enjoy the extra characters (new and old) and how they have developed , but there is a line where "leisurely paced" becomes indulgent filler.

The question is - particularly with the latest episode - has the series finally crossed that line?

BandMember

I guess that depends on which train you're on....