Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

gormdubhgorm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd agree with you, but I'd add that many do enjoy the extra characters (new and old) and how they have developed , but there is a line where "leisurely paced" becomes indulgent filler.

The question is - particularly with the latest episode - has the series finally crossed that line?

This is what I was trying to say. But I could not put it as cogently.

BandMember wrote: »

I guess that depends on which train you're on....

I am thinking about changing trains, if it is stuck in the Albuquerque desert any longer.

Jerichoholic

I'm getting to the point where I wish now that they called it "The Mike Ermantraud Show". He's a far more interesting character.

TomOnBoard

Later episodes of BCS are just a slower burn that the faster pace of some parts of BB and indeed earlier eps. of BCS. During slow-paced eps. the backstory is better able to be developed in a way that's not possible when flash-bangs and bullets are flying. Like, much of BCS is really about developing elements of BB backstory in a way that leads to "Oh, so that's how/why they (BB) did that".

Its a different programme, not BB part 2 or BB part-1, so if you're looking for that, I dont think youll find it.

Nerdlingr

I love the show. The pacing, direction, music, acting, every thing about it. The curtain is slowly being drawn back on revealing how Saul Goodman came into existence, and every crack and crevice in that curtain is being explored. I love the fact that Kim broke her arm last season and that this season her broken arm\cast is being used as a device to progress the timeline in the show. I mean, who has the foresight to think of these little details?!!!! Its fantastic.

gormdubhgorm

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I love the show. The pacing, direction, music, acting, every thing about it. The curtain is slowly being drawn back on revealing how Saul Goodman came into existence, and every crack and crevice in that curtain is being explored. I love the fact that Kim broke her arm last season and that this season her broken arm\cast is being used as a device to progress the timeline in the show. I mean, who has the foresight to think of these little details?!!!! Its fantastic.

That is the arthouse viewpoint which I completely understand.

But the alternative view is that they have very little left except the 'little details'.

So out of necessity they have to focus on the' little details' to elongate the show, and couch it in terms of the slow curtain reveal.

I like your enthusiasm for the show though, you seem to be the niche market the show is geared towards.

Personally I would prefer it less weighted towards the arthouse stuff and focus on the actual storyline a bit more.

De Bhál

If this show was released in whole seasons there wouldn't be so much analyzing of the show, you'd watch that episode, think it wasn't the best and move on to the next one.

I love the weekly releases.

Thundercats Ho

Have Jimmy & Kim ever said 'I love you' ? I don't remember hearing it.

The start and ending of this episode were conflicting.

At the start of the episode they laboured over them drifting apart, to the point of Kim disappearing at the end of the montage.

At the end of the episode, with us viewers having seen that montage, and Kims reaction to how Jimmy behaved at her office party, and Kims reaction to Jimmys proposal to ruin the cop, are safe in the knowledge that this is the end of their relationship.

Then, they flip things and show Kim pleading with Jimmy not to do whatever he's doing, as she has a better way.
It's possible this is the 'something stupid' in the episode title, and something that will either end their relationship or her career.
(or both).

De Bhál

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Then, they flip things and show Kim pleading with Jimmy not to do whatever he's doing, as she has a better way.
It's possible this is the 'something stupid' in the episode title, and something that will either end their relationship or her career.
(or both).

she loves Jimmy even though they're slowly separating and was pretty pissed the prosecutor called him a low-life or whatever so is now determined to defend Huel and beat yer one.

gormdubhgorm

De Bhál wrote: »

If this show was released in whole seasons there wouldn't be so much analyzing of the show, you'd watch that episode, think it wasn't the best and move on to the next one.

I love the weekly releases.

I agree there it gives plenty of dissection time and causes debate.
Plus people can point out something you might have missed.

Like the episode with Jimmy and the Oscar pool someone pointed out on here, she got an Oscar for a film called "Howard's End", and was able to date it.

I love those type of nuggets in it.

Nerdlingr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is the arthouse viewpoint which I completely understand.

But the alternative view is that they have very little left except the 'little details'.

So out of necessity they have to focus on the' little details' to elongate the show, and couch it in terms of the slow curtain reveal.

I like your enthusiasm for the show though, you seem to be the niche market the show is geared towards.

Personally I would prefer it less weighted towards the arthouse stuff and focus on the actual storyline a bit more.

But its the little details that make the show what it is.... for me the little details embellish the bigger reveals and give so much more meaning to them.
In the last episode we could have had a montage with the city skyline, changing seasons etc etc and a tag... 10 weeks later or whatever..instead we got some lovely touches about the monotony of relationships, how people get stuck in a rut, how one doesn't really need the other anymore, eating separately, even the mundane task of brushing ones teeth is used to show how kim is moving on... i wouldn't call it arthouse myself because they're not reinventing the wheel here...its been done before. But this show just seems to do it better than anyone else.

artvanderlay

For me, story always comes first: if the story is good, and the pacing is good, only then I can appreciate the finer aspects of the show. Otherwise it's style over substance and I get sick of that pretty quickly.

thecretinhop

i think huell will be portrayed as an idiot and the crayons and paper is for him to play with in court. just a theory...

AlanG

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

But as they get closer to the season finale, it seems like they could easily skip ahead again to BB S01E01 and nothing would be missed... inserting more padding and form-over-function scenes

Have to agree with this, and up until the last couple of episodes I was a big fan. I think the trouble is there is no conflict in the show now - no opposing sides. Gus has beaten hector, Jimmy had gotten the better of Chuck and Howard. Kim is settled and Mike has his place found. No one is taking big risks.
We really need Tuco to come back or Hank to be introduced to mix things up a bit.

charolais0153

Jerichoholic wrote: »

I'm getting to the point where I wish now that they called it "The Mike Ermantraud Show". He's a far more interesting character.

Ya. Its a pity we know everything about him,before now and the end. My favourite character of both bcs and bb

Clareman

I think the problem I have with this show is I know the people that will make it and those that don't as well as other pieces, for example

I know Gus turns into a massive drug kingpin
I know Hector doesn't recover fully but has mental abilities
I know what's being built underground and that it will be built
I know Mike doesn't get arrested
I know Jimmy disappears and becomes Saul
I know Huell doesn't get sent down for long if at all
I know Jimmy and Kim don't get married and live happily ever after

When you have a rough idea how everything plays out you get to the stage you're just linking the show to Breaking Bad and looking out for easter eggs. I'll continue to watch it but to be honest I don't think I'll be giving it my undivided attention as I think there's a bit that can be skipped in most episodes, for example the van rides from the airport to laundry factory were unnecessary. Saying that, I thought the start of the last episode was very good of "fast forwarding" a year, they could have dragged out Jimmy getting over his brother and Kim becoming more corporate but they handled it well I thought.

n!ghtmancometh

Clareman wrote: »

I think the problem I have with this show is I know the people that will make it and those that don't as well as other pieces, for example

I know Gus turns into a massive drug kingpin
I know Hector doesn't recover fully but has mental abilities
I know what's being built underground and that it will be built
I know Mike doesn't get arrested
I know Jimmy disappears and becomes Saul
I know Huell doesn't get sent down for long if at all
I know Jimmy and Kim don't get married and live happily ever after

When you have a rough idea how everything plays out you get to the stage you're just linking the show to Breaking Bad and looking out for easter eggs. I'll continue to watch it but to be honest I don't think I'll be giving it my undivided attention as I think there's a bit that can be skipped in most episodes, for example the van rides from the airport to laundry factory were unnecessary. Saying that, I thought the start of the last episode was very good of "fast forwarding" a year, they could have dragged out Jimmy getting over his brother and Kim becoming more corporate but they handled it well I thought.

You don't know how/why Jimmy & Kim split

We don't know what dirty work Mike will have to do with the German lads to ensure the lab gets built

We don't know how Gail and Gus met, or what story Gus has spun him

We don't know what will happen to the increasingly despondent Howard

We don't know how Jimmy ends up working in the Cinabun shop.


I am interested in all these little details and stories and am enjoying how they are playing out.

rubadub

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

We don't know how Gail and Gus met, or what story Gus has spun him

posted this before, has spoilers/info from BB.


http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Gale_Boetticher

Background information

In 1994, after moving to the United States, Gustavo Fring established a college scholarship, known as the Max Arciniega Chemistry Scholarship, at the University of New Mexico Chemistry department. This scholarship honored Gustavo's dear friend, Maximino Arciniega. Gale was a recipient of the scholarship (perhaps one of three dozen), and this paid for his education ("Hermanos"). While at UNM, Gale received his Bachelor's degree, and graduated in 1999 ("Hermanos").

Breaking Bad s04e08 Episode Script

-Gustavo, thanks for coming.
-Pleasure.
-How's Kathi? -Much better, thank you.
-And you know Hank Schrader? -Yes, indeed.
-And Steve Gomez? -How was your meal? Agent Schrader and l had a chance to catch up at one of my restaurants.
l'd eat there every day but l wouldn't fit through the door.
-Well, should we get started? -Yeah.
-l'd like to record this conversation.
-Of course.
The DEA is working on an investigation which may overlap with my own so l've asked them to sit in.
Gus, we all appreciate your coming in here to talk to us but you have the right to have an attorney present.
Oh, well, l can't see how that would be necessary.
But then, l have no idea why l'm here.
So you wish to continue? Please.
l'm very anxious to find out what this is all about.
Sir, your fingerprints were found at a crime scene.
Really? That's surprising.
A drug-related homicide.
Gale Boetticher's apartment.
So you knew the victim? Fifteen years ago, l established a chemistry scholarship at UNM.
l named it after Maximino Arciniega a dear friend of mine who died young.
Gale was a recipient of this scholarship.
He was perhaps one of three dozen.
l see.
And Mr.
Boetticher graduated in.
-1 999.
-That sounds right.
And you kept in contact with him over all this time? Oh, no.
l hadn't seen Gale for years until l ran into him a few weeks ago.
-Ran into him where? -At the restaurant.
Well, "ran into" isn't quite accurate, as l assumed he came by to re-establish contact with me.
We caught up briefly.
He invited me to dinner the following night and l accepted.
lt was perhaps a week later when l read about him in the paper.
-Drug related, you said? -lt's a good possibility.
The paper made no mention of that.
l assumed that it was a random crime.
So after years with no contact, he shows up in your restaurant -and invites you to dinner? -He wanted money.
-Gale Boetticher asked for money? -He didn't say that.
He spoke in terms of a vague investment opportunity.
But it was my suspicion, yes, as to why he invited me into his home.
He was a very, very talented chemist, but for reasons l never understood he was more interested in taking shortcuts than what would or could have been a very promising career.
Personal shortcomings notwithstanding he was a warm, gentle person and l thought a lot of him.
At any rate, l declined his business offer and after what was a very pleasant meal, left.
Can you tell us where you were on the night of wednesday the 23rd at around 8 p.
m.
? -Not an accusation, just a question.
-No, l understand.
Let's see.
Twenty-third.
l was at a fundraiser at Presbyterian Hospital.
l was there from 7 to about 1 0.
Anyone else? Sorry, yeah.
Just one other thing.
ls Gustavo Fring your real name? ls it my real name? l know you're a Chilean national but there are no records of you ever living there.
Really? l mean, records show that you immigrated to Mexico in 1 986 and years later, you were granted an entry visa to the United States.
But there's no record of Gustavo Fring ever having existed in Chile which l find, l don't know, strange.
Well, no, really, it isn't.
Pinochet's government was guilty of many sins.
First and foremost were human rights abuses.
But it was also notoriously unreliable at keeping records.
l'm sure if you keep digging, you'll find me.
Okay, l think that's it, Gus.
Thank you.
l hope that l was of some small help.
-You were, absolutely.
Thank you.
-You're very welcome.
Good to see you again.
Oh, no.
-No, please, please.
Don't get up.
-Thanks.
Gentlemen.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=breaking-bad&episode=s04e08

As you say I still want to see the current story given too him. We saw him testing meth and saying he could do better, but Gus saying no. So it would not seem like he has discussed the superlab with him yet -which would seem odd.

http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Superlab

The lab was capable of cooking between 100 and 300 pounds of meth per week. The lab's layout was designed by chemist Gale Boetticher, who specified its every detail, including the apparatus required...


Receiving chemical deliveries every week and fitted with a state-of-the-art filtration system, the facility was capable of producing hundreds of pounds of meth a week - Gus says that he requires a minimum of 200 pounds to make the lab profitable

If Gale is not involved yet how does he know how big the lab will have to be, or that he has not overlooked something which could be easy to do not but hugely costly later on.

When the lads coming to build were introduced I was expecting them to possibly know what it was and what would be required.

wylo

Clareman wrote: »

I'll continue to watch it but to be honest I don't think I'll be giving it my undivided attention as I think there's a bit that can be skipped in most episodes, for example the van rides from the airport to laundry factory were unnecessary.

I disagree. It’s some of those scenes that eventually add to the intensity of the more exciting scenes. They are all character and setting building.

Switching from the calm but over confident guy who gus rejects instantly to the German who is worried about throwing up. It gives these guys more dimensions.

It kind of reminds of the clipped version of Das Boot vs the directors cut. The directors cut is far far superior because you’re given all this space for the little things to happen.

Films and shows move too fast these days. Every second is edited and accounted for and everything has to be constantly moving and 100% relevant to the plot.

BCS is a fresh break from that. In fact in that regard it kind of reminds me of older classics.

I would bet no one would have the balls to make a movie as patient as something like The Godfather these days.

gormdubhgorm

wylo wrote: »

I would bet no one would have the balls to make a movie as patient as something like The Godfather these days.

So should I be expecting Kim's head in a bed?
Killed by the cousins?

Sal Butamol

Finally, an interesting story for Kim

KevinCavan

I think the reason I’m whinging here about the show is that I’m too emotionally invested by now to stop watching it, though not fully enjoying it either. It is not an amazing spin off by any stretch. I think people are giving the writers, director and creators too much credit in the thread. I would put the people who laud it here, in the same category as the people who initially thought “Lost” was a masterpiece.

ButtersSuki

I didn't know this until today but the actress (actor for the PC brigade) who plays Stacey Ehrmantraut is Kerry Condon from Tipperary........:eek:.


On the Ehrmantraut theme and similar to a previous poster I think a Mike story would have possibly been more interesting - and I'm saying that as someone who absolutely loves this show now, particularly this season where it has really grown into something special.


I knew I had posted about Mike previously, so I went back and checked. This post of mine is exactly 2 years old today:


Better Call Saul Seasons 1+2 binge watch. Hmm, a little confused by this. The pace is very slow (much slower than Breaking Bad, esp. S1); but when it's good, it's very good. Unfortunately there were only two real standout episodes for me Spoiler: the one where Jonathan Banks tells the story of how his son was killed, and the penultimate episode in Season 2 where you had real Breaking Bad-like tension. In fact I'd go so far as to say Spoiler: Banks' Mike Ehrmantrout character is more more interesting thus far than Jimmy/Saul. They overdo the Spoiler: brother who has a reaction to electro magnetic fields story and the Spoiler: tape recorded confession was a bit obvious but I also found Breaking Bad Seasons 1-3 to be slow so I will likely stick with this. I feel part of the problem with it is you know ultimately where these people will end up so it would be interesting to see how someone who's never seen Breaking Bad would find it? 7/10










On Banks, does anyone remember Wiseguy? He was in it. I was very young when it came out but I loved it. I bought in in DVD a few years back but never got around to watching it (I have waaaaay too much stuff to watch). I'd imagine it's aged terribly, but someday I hope to get around to it.

artvanderlay

I love Kerry Condon, a great actress. Much better than the likes of Saoirse Ronan (barf!) and yet she gets very little attention here. Check out the HBO series Rome from a few years back; she was brilliant in it.



Yeah, I remember Mike from Wiseguy. I recall him as a bad guy in the first Beverly Hills Cop too.

ButtersSuki

artvanderlay wrote: »

I love Kerry Condon, a great actress. Much better than the likes of Saoirse Ronan (barf!) and yet she gets very little attention here. Check out the HBO series Rome from a few years back; she was brilliant in it.

Yeah, I remember Mike from Wiseguy. I recall him as a bad guy in the first Beverly Hills Cop too.

ROME on Blu Ray has being sitting on a shelf still in its shrink wrap since being bought many years ago at a ridiculous price. :rolleyes:


100% agree with you on Ronan, I don't get the fuss myself.


And remember him from BHC too, didn't want to go supernerdy on it! He's a great actor, the episode I mentioned earlier which focused pretty much solely on him was fantastic.

Michelin

"I think the reason I’m whinging here about the show is that I’m too emotionally invested by now to stop watching it, though not fully enjoying it either. "

Your sounding like the wife. Replace show with relationship

Niles Crane

The last episode was great I thought.

You just feel so sorry for Kim as you can see Jimmy is going to do something to completely **** her over.The bit with Schweicart at the company party where he unintentionally completely embarrasses Schweicart and almost certainly does damage to Kim's career there was so awkward to watch.

Jimmy/Saul is such a brilliant character as although he's likeable and essentially doesn't mean any harm to anyone around him he's also a complete and utter asshole and cause massive damage to anyone near him.

Chuck was 100% correct in his assessment of him and the way he ends up a broken man at the cinnabon where he can never relax for fear of being found out is the example of him finally reaping what he's sowed and all his deeds finally being punished.

Dick Pickle

Niles Crane wrote: »

The last episode was great I thought.

You just feel so sorry for Kim as you can see Jimmy is going to do something to completely **** her over.The bit with Schweicart at the company party where he unintentionally completely embarrasses Schweicart and almost certainly does damage to Kim's career there was so awkward to watch.

Jimmy/Saul is such a brilliant character as although he's likeable and essentially doesn't mean any harm to anyone around him he's also a complete and utter asshole and cause massive damage to anyone near him.

Chuck was 100% correct in his assessment of him and the way he ends up a broken man at the cinnabon where he can never relax for fear of being found out is the example of him finally reaping what he's sowed and all his deeds finally being punished.

It wasn’t unintentional. How could you miss that key point ?????

TerrorFirmer

Still love the show and thought the latest episode was very good (as has been the whole season), though the lack of non-BB related adversity for Jimmy is sorely missing this season.

My main hope though, is simply that they don't draw the show out too much - BB got it just right, and I hope BCS follows suit and knows when, and how, to call it quits.

Would love if there was an episode devoted to Jimmy post-BB that expands on the flash-forwards.

The Black Oil

AlanG wrote: »

Have to agree with this, and up until the last couple of episodes I was a big fan. I think the trouble is there is no conflict in the show now - no opposing sides. Gus has beaten hector, Jimmy had gotten the better of Chuck and Howard. Kim is settled and Mike has his place found. No one is taking big risks.
We really need Tuco to come back or Hank to be introduced to mix things up a bit.

Given the nature of Saul as a character, conflict will always be skirting around somewhere or central thematically, I'd say. Particularly now if he's twisted Kim's arm re being unethical, etc. This isn't current for season 4, but is recent and worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeOUVXXZX_M

Barnavave

I’d disagree that BB got it just right, it thought it should have ended after season 4 and that the final season was quite poor.
I think we may see a lot more of Jimmy post BB.