Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

gormdubhgorm

Hector Savage wrote: »

heh I actually thought the wiping away the tear was her act, but you're probably right

Yeah, that was the point of it.
Kim started to believe Jimmy there was the bond starting again.
It was a kick in the guts for her when she realises it was all a con.
I thought Rhea Seehorn acted superbly in scene.

artvanderlay

I'm guessing that because Lalo knows now who Mike is and what he looks like, the Salamancas will remember Mike from his setting up Tuco for imprisonment (when Nacho wanted Tuco killed, but Mike made Tuco beat him up in front of cops instead). I imagine they will assume that Gus was behind all that.

I also think that, yes, the Kim/Jimmy story is dragging but this is because it is showing the slow death of their relationship. Kim wants to believe there is still good in Jimmy, and has given him many chances to show it. I think the last one was the most heart-breaking for her, because she bought his act, even shed a tear, but it was still just an act, and it shocked her how good a performer Jimmy can be. How could she ever trust someone like that? I wouldn't be surprised if we came back in the new season to Jimmy and Kim split up: I think that last scene in this episode could be the end for them, certainly for her.

stronglikebull

uncommon_name wrote: »

Also, can everyone that doesn't like the show stop telling us you don't like it, we don't care.

No. It's a discussion forum, not a fanboy forum. So please stop telling people that your's is the only opinion that counts. We don't care.

De Bhál

so we're almost there, assume there can only be one more season


The car chase scene was so 70's.

People questioning here whether Lalo just knocked out the bank clerk guy, he killed him as he had blood spray on his cheek.
I thought it was harsh but he is a hitman. Great characte, loved when he was on the phone to Werner also when he dropped through the ceiling.

Yeah, Jimmy roaring down the hall about the assholes he duped. Stupid scene and the whole thing didn't tie in with him crying in the car. I assumed (maybe wrongly) that he was crying over Chuck and later hadn't duped the court at all as he was totally honest to them.

Werner...what an idiot and I thought he might give me some respect for him by going down with a fight or run at the very least. I suppose he was worried about his wife being killed but I think he could've figured away around that if he overcame Mike.

rubadub

De Bh108312027 wrote:

so we're almost there, assume there can only be one season

I posted links to Gilligan interviews before. Sounded fairly likely there will be just one more season 5 which will have twice as many episodes. So it would be similar to BB.

rubadub

I thought the scholarship candidates name sounded like the Gus actors real surname. And the script here shows it spelt the exact same.

Uh, the one vote for Kristy Esposito? That was me.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=better-call-saul-2015&episode=s04e10

Giancarlo Esposito. But wiki says it is a common Italian surname. I thought they were using it as her first name.

There were some other scenes that reminded me of something, I know a few were mentioned already like Jimmy on the blow up water bed. But there were a few others. Might have to watch it again.

sightband

artvanderlay wrote: »

I also think that, yes, the Kim/Jimmy story is dragging but this is because it is showing the slow death of their relationship. Kim wants to believe there is still good in Jimmy, and has given him many chances to show it. I think the last one was the most heart-breaking for her, because she bought his act, even shed a tear, but it was still just an act, and it shocked her how good a performer Jimmy can be. How could she ever trust someone like that?

I’ve found the Kim jimmy relationship to be totally unbelievable from the outset. They seem wholly unsuited to one another both on and off screen. Their onscreen interactions seem strained and extremely tedious at the same time. The script writing when they are together is horrible and I don’t know if its an intentional gag to highlight that they are not suited to one another but I could throw the remote at the tv every time they had that “Thai food tonight?” “Sushi tonight” etc. ongoing conversation in so many episodes. Their apartment scenes looked utterly miserable, dark, two of them moping about.

Surely as viewers we should feel some degree of sorrow for them both splitting, i don’t think many will. It’s horribly bleak watching.

De Bhál

sightband wrote: »

I’ve found the Kim jimmy relationship to be totally unbelievable from the outset. They seem wholly unsuited to one another both on and off screen. Their onscreen interactions seem strained and extremely tedious at the same time. The script writing when they are together is horrible and I don’t know if its an intentional gag to highlight that they are not suited to one another but I could throw the remote at the tv every time they had that “Thai food tonight?” “Sushi tonight” etc. ongoing conversation in so many episodes. Their apartment scenes looked utterly miserable, dark, two of them moping about.

Surely as viewers we should feel some degree of sorrow for them both splitting, i don’t think many will. It’s horribly bleak watching.

yep, zero chemistry between them

thomas 123

De Bhál wrote: »

yep, zero chemistry between them

I think that was completely intentional to be honest - shes too busy working, hes too busy being himself. In that regard they are a perfect match.

FrancieBrady

sightband wrote: »

I’ve found the Kim jimmy relationship to be totally unbelievable from the outset. They seem wholly unsuited to one another both on and off screen. Their onscreen interactions seem strained and extremely tedious at the same time. The script writing when they are together is horrible and I don’t know if its an intentional gag to highlight that they are not suited to one another but I could throw the remote at the tv every time they had that “Thai food tonight?” “Sushi tonight” etc. ongoing conversation in so many episodes. Their apartment scenes looked utterly miserable, dark, two of them moping about.

Surely as viewers we should feel some degree of sorrow for them both splitting, i don’t think many will. It’s horribly bleak watching.

De Bhál wrote: »

yep, zero chemistry between them

Ridiculous carping really.

This is not (like most relationships in BCS and BrBd) a perfect relationship. This is a very real relationship between two imperfect people which ultimately (afawk) breaks apart and flounders.

If it is perfect relationships you want where everyone lives happily ever after in a world of twinkling excitement and variety, then Disney is where you should go.

De Bhál

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ridiculous carping really.

This is not (like most relationships in BCS and BrBd) a perfect relationship. This is a very real relationship between two imperfect people which ultimately (afawk) breaks apart and flounders.

If it is perfect relationships you want where everyone lives happily ever after in a world of twinkling excitement and variety, then Disney is where you should go.

I agree and have said before on here it's a relationship more real to life than the usual Hollywood stuff but it just never seemed believable to me.

sightband

Yeah, I’ve considered that but how are we supposed to believe they ever hooked up in the first place? It’s not out of necessity and neither of them used one or the other which would’ve been a reason. The two of them pulling the scams together looks silly, awkward, as did the scene where Kim was an office junior dropping off mail. There’s nothing between them that we’ve seen that would convince you that there was a spark or an attraction between them both...I think Kim was totally miscast being honest.

Mickeroo

rubadub wrote: »

I posted links to Gilligan interviews before. Sounded fairly likely there will be just one more season 5 which will have twice as many episodes. So it would be similar to BB.

Twice as many? That seems a bit much. I actually though last night's episode might be the end of the entire thing until I googled afterwards to make sure.

AlmightyCushion

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Never knew the David St Hubbins angle to my shame!

How the hell have I been watching this for years and not realised that was him until now.

uncommon_name

stronglikebull wrote: »

No. It's a discussion forum, not a fanboy forum. So please stop telling people that your's is the only opinion that counts. We don't care.

Exactly, it is a "discussion" forum. Where people come on and say I don't like this show and leave. If you don't like the show, tell us why "DISCUSS" it.
I don't mind that people don't like it, I didn't like it for a long time either, but I didn't go around telling everyone. If I told someone I didn't like it I told them why.

FYI, I love it now. Best show out there at the minute in my opinion.

D'Agger

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah, that was the point of it.
Kim started to believe Jimmy there was the bond starting again.
It was a kick in the guts for her when she realises it was all a con.
I thought Rhea Seehorn acted superbly in scene.

Fully agree. There's a scene where Kim delivers that letter to Jimmy and cries as he reads it, while Jimmy is emotionless. Jimmy explains himself at the end of the 9th episode that life goes on, he's glad Chuck is gone and she believes him.

But for him to ad lib like he did at his hearing while reading that letter, she had to believe that he was telling the truth, and for him to swing around and call them suckers, to see that he played everyone like a fiddle to get what he wants, hurts her.

Jimmy assumes he'll never get respect so why play that game, I think the difference is Jimmy assumes he won't get respect professionally whereas Kim will have lost all respect for him now, I think it may be one of the reasons Jimmy was crying in the car, he realises he has to make that choice, but I was still suprised to see him so ecstatic in the hallway

Nerdlingr

The 'thai night' / 'sushi night' dilemma i think is made to throw your remote at the screen , that's the purpose. To get frustrated at how stuck in the mundane their relationship is. Thats why when Kim gets made partner of the other firm she splashes out for the big dinner when Jimmy still wants take away!!! She's moving on, he'll never change.

FrancieBrady

De Bhál wrote: »

I agree and have said before on here it's a relationship more real to life than the usual Hollywood stuff but it just never seemed believable to me.

sightband wrote: »

Yeah, I’ve considered that but how are we supposed to believe they ever hooked up in the first place? It’s not out of necessity and neither of them used one or the other which would’ve been a reason. The two of them pulling the scams together looks silly, awkward, as did the scene where Kim was an office junior dropping off mail. There’s nothing between them that we’ve seen that would convince you that there was a spark or an attraction between them both...I think Kim was totally miscast being honest.

It is all of the above that makes them a fascinating study.

It is a brilliantly drawn instance of the question I regularly ask my self when people watching - how in hell are those two together?
A question prompted by my disbelief that they are together...but there you go, such is the fascination of life.

rubadub

Mickeroo wrote: »

Twice as many? That seems a bit much.

here's the post again

rubadub wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/breaking-bad-season-4-season-5-ending-how-many-seasons-planned-amc-netflix-a8480686.html

According to the co-creators, it seems like (the yet to be commissioned) season 5 will likely be the last, but might also be 20 episodes rather than the usual 10.

When I mentioned how showrunner Peter Gould had previously said he didn't see BCS going on longer than BB, he replied: "I think I would stick with that.

"In an ideal world it would make a beautiful blu-ray or DVD set or whatever futuristic media may exist eventually to have the shows kind of bookend and be roughly the same number of episodes," he added, implying, I think, that he'd like to see Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul could be the same length as there would be a pleasing symmetry to this.

"But having said that, the big thing for us is not to outstay our welcome," he cautioned.

"I would stick with it. We are talking about roughly the same number of episodes as Breaking Bad.

"Though I have to tell you, if at the beginning of this you had told me we were going to do this many episodes about Walter White’s comedy sidekick lawyer I would have said you were crazy! The show has turned into a very different animal from frankly what I ever would have pictured when we got started."

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

How the hell have I been watching this for years and not realised that was him until now.

It took me a few episodes of season one to realize who Chuck was, I knew the eyes and mouth...the American accent threw me off. Then bam, it hit me. It’s not obvious unless you’ve been following his career, I haven’t seen anything he’s been in since Spinal Tap.

Hannibal_Smith

Hunky Monster wrote: »

It took me a few episodes of season one to realize who Chuck was, I knew the eyes and mouth...the American accent threw me off. Then bam, it hit me. It’s not obvious unless you’ve been following his career, I haven’t seen anything he’s been in since Spinal Tap.

Im pretty sure he was in Friends. I think he was the mocolate guy who interviewed Monica. She says something like, I've no morals and need the cash and he replies, it's like looking in a mirror

gormdubhgorm

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Chuck can hold a tune?

That’s David St. Hubbins. He can more than hold a tune. He invented tune. Then reinvented it probably. Then recorded it in dobly.

Just saw a this song (Never watched the entirety of Spinal Tap)

Michael McKean is some actor.
Playing two different personalities, mannerisms etc spot on.

Going to watch the whole thing at some stage, wish I knew the link earlier!

Nerdlingr

Checked who the actor was at the start of season 1 cos he looked familiar ... never suspected, but pleasantly surprised, it would be spinal tap!! Great actor.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Checked who the actor was at the start of season 1 cos he looked familiar ... never suspected, but pleasantly surprised, it would be spinal tap!! Great actor.

Gilligan clearly has a thing for casting comedians or comedic actors.

sideswipe

Loved it.

I can in some ways understand why some people have grown tired of it- it simply doesn't have an in your face, buckle up for the ride MO that other series have.
What it has instead is brilliantly written scenes and characters that you just want to watch. The writing is so subtle you really do have to watch it closely to appreciate how good it actually is. I love watching the evolution of the characters. Roll on the new season!

Boom_Bap

Brilliant finale, loved how we seen that Gus has reservations against Gale again. He wanted to get into the hole in the ground straight away whereas Gus wants it perfect before doing it right.


What a show.

Standman

sightband wrote: »

I’ve found the Kim jimmy relationship to be totally unbelievable from the outset. They seem wholly unsuited to one another both on and off screen. Their onscreen interactions seem strained and extremely tedious at the same time. The script writing when they are together is horrible and I don’t know if its an intentional gag to highlight that they are not suited to one another but I could throw the remote at the tv every time they had that “Thai food tonight?” “Sushi tonight” etc. ongoing conversation in so many episodes. Their apartment scenes looked utterly miserable, dark, two of them moping about.

Surely as viewers we should feel some degree of sorrow for them both splitting, i don’t think many will. It’s horribly bleak watching.

I think the bleakness is kind of the point - their relationship is the tragic thing, not any possible split. Both of them are flawed individuals who are with each other for the wrong reasons. They're using each other to give their lives meaning in some way.

Jimmy wants to prove to all the Chucks and Howards of the world that he's better than them, and he wants to rub their noses in it by getting an office with one of their own (Kim). Just look at what he said to the scholarship applicant – it was like his entire spiteful battle plan laid bare:

Jimmy: You made a mistake, and they are never forgetting it. As far as they're concerned, your mistake is just who you are, and it's all you are.
...
You're going to be smart, you are gonna cut corners, and you are gonna win. The higher you rise, the more they're gonna hate you. Good, good. You rub their noses in it. You make them suffer.

Jimmy will do whatever it takes to win, and Kim is part of that plan.

On Kim's side, I think she has this caring aspect to her where she wants to fix things and help the downtrodden, and Jimmy is her pet project (you can see this side to her when she appears in the local court to help petty criminals). Also, she's bored with her life and likes the bit of wildness that Jimmy can provide. And again, you can see this basically spelled out when they had the argument in the penultimate episode. Although a lot of it was said in spite, I think it illuminates why they're with each other:

Kim: You confess to a felony on tape, I'm there. You have a bar hearing, I represent you. Over and over again, if you need me, I'm there.
But somehow in your mind the only measure of my feelings for you is some office?

Jimmy: You just get a little bored with your life, so you come down and roll around in the dirt - have some fun with Slippin' Jimmy.

Great writing, great drama. It can be a slow burn at times but loved the last two episodes especially.

FrancieBrady

Standman wrote: »

I think the bleakness is kind of the point - their relationship is the tragic thing, not any possible split. Both of them are flawed individuals who are with each other for the wrong reasons. They're using each other to give their lives meaning in some way.

Jimmy wants to prove to all the Chucks and Howards of the world that he's better than them, and he wants to rub their noses in it by getting an office with one of their own (Kim). Just look at what he said to the scholarship applicant – it was like his entire spiteful battle plan laid bare:
Jimmy will do whatever it takes to win, and Kim is part of that plan.

On Kim's side, I think she has this caring aspect to her where she wants to fix things and help the downtrodden, and Jimmy is her pet project (you can see this side to her when she appears in the local court to help petty criminals). Also, she's bored with her life and likes the bit of wildness that Jimmy can provide. And again, you can see this basically spelled it when they had they argument in the penultimate episode. Although a lot of it was said in spite, I think it illuminates why they're with each other:
Great writing, great drama. It can be a slow burn at times but loved the last two episodes especially.

I agree mostly but I think Jimmy knows full well that he isn't better and never will be. But it doesn't matter anymore, he is just going to take from now on and to hell with the consequences.

astrofool

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Just saw a this song (Never watched the entirety of Spinal Tap)



Michael McKean is some actor.
Playing two different personalities, mannerisms etc spot on.



Going to watch the whole thing at some stage, wish I knew the link earlier!

He's great at Live Earth when it really does go wrong and he has to ad lib, in character, with the world watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxVMajzZUcA

Akrasia

stronglikebull wrote: »

Anyway, I thought that was a good ending to the episode, but a lot of the rest of it was pointless and boring. I skipped through the Karaoke, and stopped paying attention to scenes without Mike in them.

So you didn't really watch it but think it was boring anyway

Can we have a separate thread for people who watch it BCS while also playing angry birds and watching conor mcgregor clips on youtube?