Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

Hector Savage

Just noticed Gale's notebook is the same one Hank finds in BrBa ... such detail!!!

Standman

Pelvis wrote: »

I'm not sure why BCS needs to wrap up anything yet. It took 4 seasons for him to become Saul Goodman, they could easily do another 4 as Saul Goodman, if they wanted to.

Well, just going by the fact that they've almost finished the underground lab and Gale is in the picture with the same lab manual he had in Breaking Bad would make me think they're very close to the Breaking Bad timeline now, if not already in it. Squeezing another few seasons out of Saul's antics would be a bit much I think.

bren2001

Pelvis wrote: »

I'm not sure why BCS needs to wrap up anything yet. It took 4 seasons for him to become Saul Goodman, they could easily do another 4 as Saul Goodman, if they wanted to.

The most interesting part of BCS is his transition from Jimmy to Saul. That's now done. He is Saul Goodman. Hence, the show is at the stage where doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

Of course, they could do four more seasons but you would expect viewership to drop off. The only way they could continue going would be to see what happens him post BB, even that doesn't have much distance to it. Alternatively, they could do another prequel of the past of Gus but that's unlikely.

rubadub

bren2001 wrote: »

The most interesting part of BCS is his transition from Jimmy to Saul. That's now done. He is Saul Goodman. Hence, the show is at the stage where doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

I remember wondering if the entire show was going to be a new scam each week. Like individual stories with maybe some ongoing story throughout, sort of like CSI or criminal minds do.

This is a trailer before it was out. I thought it was going to start out with him being a fully fledged dodgy lawyer from the get go, with new clients/characters nearly every week, maybe well known guest stars.

bren2001 wrote: »

New extended trailer out. Gives a first look at the tone of the show. I am looking forward to what they can do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q4qzYrHVmI

Pelvis

bren2001 wrote: »

The most interesting part of BCS is his transition from Jimmy to Saul. That's now done. He is Saul Goodman. Hence, the show is at the stage where doesn't have much gas left in the tank.

Of course, they could do four more seasons but you would expect viewership to drop off. The only way they could continue going would be to see what happens him post BB, even that doesn't have much distance to it. Alternatively, they could do another prequel of the past of Gus but that's unlikely.

Of course that's the most interesting part, that's the whole point of the show. If the show shifts focus to his role as a criminal lawyer and his efforts to get them off, a la Huell, then that will become the most interesting part.

Personally I think it would work well, it would offer an opportunity to introduce a whole range of characters not related to the BB world.

Would also like to see a season of the post BB world, with him on the run or something. Maybe he tries to reconnect with Kim or something for help, if she's still around.

astrofool

rubadub wrote: »

I remember wondering if the entire show was going to be a new scam each week. Like individual stories with maybe some ongoing story throughout, sort of like CSI or criminal minds do.

This is a trailer before it was out. I thought it was going to start out with him being a fully fledged dodgy lawyer from the get go, with new clients/characters nearly every week, maybe well known guest stars.

This is what I thought as well, I'd have watched that, but this is much more interesting

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

astrofool wrote: »

This is what I thought as well, I'd have watched that, but this is much more interesting

I honestly didn’t know what to expect. What I didn’t expect was this but I couldn’t be happier at the outcome. I really didn’t like the idea of a B.B. prequel, they rarely work... I thought season one of BCS was a little slow but everything since then has been amazing. I’ve a feeling they’ll split next season into two parts like the last season of B.B. or even game of thrones.

FrancieBrady

I think the idea that there is a spin off in Mike is a non runner. Mike is a super character but there isn't enough to sustain a series, unless you think that him going around making faces is enough for a series. He doesn't really have all that much to say for himself.
Jimmy/Saul has been developed as such an interesting multi faceted and mouthy character that I would be delirious with excitement if they announced a series charting what happens to him after BrBa.
He is that rare thing = eminently watchable and entertaining.

thegreengoblin

Deleted User wrote: »

You're very precious about any criticism towards this.

I found this season to be meandering and redundant. Last season, this was the best thing out there. Three seasons culminated into Chuck losing his temper and eventual meltdown in the court room. Right now, The Deuce is head and shoulders above this.

Even up until the last second, Jimmy transformation felt like a flip flop. Suddenly changing his name at the last minute. Wtf. There's no way that board wouldn't ask questions about that. Even his raving in the corridor would arouse suspicion. Kim is surprised its a ruse for the billionth time even though it was the plan all along.

Herr German is dead. We all saw that coming a mile off. It looked beautiful. Mike's super sleuthing is always entertaining. But ultimately I didn't care. That's the biggest issue with this entire season. I stopped caring because the setup was poorly written and poorly executed. Vince Gilligan is usually a genius with tying up every loose end but there were a few too many plot holes to allow myself to suspend my disbelief.

Gus has been reduced to a nanny over a bunch of lads in prefabs. I remember when he held the center court anytime he was on screen. You'd hang on his every word. I don't recognise him anymore.

Some of my friends gave up on this in season one or two but I implored them to continue as I think it was episode 5 of season 3 is an utter masterpiece. This season has completely lost its way. I was genuinely bored by at least half the episodes.

The whole lab plot line reminded me how they tacked on the nazis towards the end of BB. They needed some kind of plot device but they hadn't done the ground work in advance so it felt wrong. Although I don't like comparing this to BB as they've been different animals from day one.

Vince Gilligan has a ton of credit in the bank but he's definitely lost me a bit with this recent hot mess.

Sums up my feelings on this season. A lot of it just left me thinking 'so what?' It went off course from the start and floundered before finding some calm waters for the final two episodes which were very good overall. Although I'm still thinking back to Jimmy's bizarre corridor scene and asking did we really see that? Mental stuff.

There was something really off about this season and I'd say the high quality of the final two episodes will gloss over what were eight fairly ordinary episodes before them. I'm still very much looking forward to next season but I hope it doesn't go beyond that.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

I can’t believe how polarizing this season seems to be! It’s The Last Jedi of the B.B. universe!

I appreciate some people didn’t like it, I strongly disagree with most of the points but at least the points have been explained.

The people posting here saying one word replies like “boring” should just be ignored.

leggo

It’s the exact same with any character-based show (except Mad Men, which was ‘cool’ and people reacted more the less stuff happened): I think it’s a case that people just don’t like the genre but don’t like admitting it either. Like I love slow burning, character based stuff: I could watch Jimmy spend an hour trying to figure out how to change settings on a burner phone if it filled a purpose. But I also see how people would be like “Why would I spend my free time watching someone do every day stuff?!” But, for whatever reason (maybe because people who like it get snobby or they don’t want to miss the show people are talking about), they don’t like admitting that to themselves as much as anyone. So you get these mental threads like this where people on both sides are pissed because others can’t see the show is genius/****e.

The reality is all of this show is self-indulgent, it always has been. It’s methodone for Breaking Bad addicts to wean us off. But they’ve also put a huge amount of time and effort into it too, so it’s high quality self-indulgent. I never watched Breaking Bad and wanted to know how the lab was built, but then again until I heard about this show and thought about missing Breaking Bad, I also never wanted to know why Saul was a sleazebag. I was perfectly okay just accepting that he was a sleazebag lawyer, but I was also perfectly happy to spend more time with characters like him and Mike. The fact that, for me, the show is good enough to stand alongside Breaking Bad (while also having its own identity) is just a pleasant surprise and not something I’m looking to question.

StupidLikeAFox

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

For the lads who don't like the show but are sticking it out anyway.....

gormdubhgorm

There are people in the middle ground like myself who enjoy bits of the show, but can subjectively look at other bits of it and say they must have been on the blue meth for that bit.

The show as ran out of steam.
I think people who say the show is constantly brilliant are falling victim to the confirmation bias.
Where they look for anything positive to demonstrate that the show is genius.
In other words to continue with the hyperbole no matter what.

From my point of view this season could have done with some serious editing, and it did not flow as smoothly as other seasons.
Also there was not the wow factor in the season as a whole.
It was mishmash of stuff most of the time, some of which spread the the suspension of disbelief wafer thin.
The finale had some good bits for me but it also had bits that let the episode down.
If you are into arthouse stuff it would be the best thing you have ever seen.
The extremely slow pace and the 'suffering' in the viewers enjoyment.

At the top of my head there were about two episodes that were middle of the road, and one I really enjoyed, Jimmy's con with the cards.
The rest coughed and spluttered along.


I am reminded of the last scene Saul had in Breaking Bad -

Saul:

Hey, I'm a civilian.
I'm not your lawyer anymore.
I'm nobody's lawyer.
The fun's over.
From here on out, I'm Mr.
Low Profile.
Just another douche bag with a job and three pairs of Dockers.
If I'm lucky, month from now, best-case scenario, I'm managing a cinnabon in Omaha.


Walter:

You're still part of this.
Whether you like it or not.

Saul:

I'm sorry.
I don't think so.

Walter:

You remember what I told you? It's not over.
Until It's over.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


To me we are the viewer - we are Saul Goodman.
We know the game is up.
But, Gilligan the producers are Walter White - they don't want to let the show go.

The show is going to die soon, but they will tell us when it's over.
Occasionally coughing and spluttering along slowly to the end, but still capable of the unexpected.

NickNickleby

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

.......

In other words to continue with the hyperbole no matter what.

.....

If you are into arthouse stuff it would be the best thing you have ever seen.
The extremely slow pace and the 'suffering' in the viewers enjoyment.

At the top of my head there were about two episodes that were middle of the road, and one I really enjoyed, Jimmy's con with the cards.
The rest coughed and spluttered along.


I am reminded of the last scene Saul had in Breaking Bad -
...
...

To me we are the viewer - we are Saul Goodman.
We know the game is up.
But, Gilligan the producers are Walter White - they don't want to let the show go.

The show is going to die soon, but they will tell us when it's over.
Occasionally coughing and spluttering along slowly to the end, but still capable of the unexpected.

Have to admit, as an avid follower of the show, while reading your post, I realised that if asked to recap this series, I'd be pushed to remember a lot of it. But, I still enjoyed most of it. Sometimes I might find myself wandering, which was probably those bits that should never been in there, but I just accept that there's going to be filler. The thing though about filler is, like a good scary movie, they get you relaxed , then BAM!

I've had to tone down my posts a little, having been previously taken to task for hyperbole (gotta admit though, it WAS hyperbole).

Rewatched the last episode.
Werner - he didn't realise he was messing with the bad guys. I think he only really realised the game was up, when Mike told him that Margarethe was going to be followed. Awful scene. All the while I was hoping that Mike would pull the rabbit out of the hat with Gus ('there's another way'). To me, this was also Gus reminding Mike of who's the boss. Also, the long distance camera, just like when they shot driver of the ice cream delivery truck. Flash.........bang.

THe basement scene. Gail like a kid in a sweet shop. He doesn't know Gus as well as I would have thought he should. Mike on the stairs, not a word between him and Gus, but I got the vibe that it was Gus remaining adamant, and Mike not at all happy. But, its not something that can be talked out. It is what it is.

Lalo, now getting across the ceiling like that was a bit ott. But I suppose it cements in our minds that Lalo gets what he wants.

For the future. I want to see how Saul sets himself up. how he persuades HT (can't remember her character name - only what Saul called her in BB) to come and work for him. BCS and BB were both good at showing how relationships were forged, so I think there's scope for some of that for Saul's early days in his new practice. However, we've been getting so many 'flash forwards' they must be going to include some stuff of Gene and how he fares after BB. I think we've learned as much as we're going to about how the characters develop, so one more season will probably see it out.

Small aside here: BB and BCS got me wondering how true to life they are as stories about the drugs world. So Netflix was happy to enlighten me with Narcos and other similar 'documentary' type series. There was one, in which a retired policeman was interviewed about the cartels. Good God, BCS and BB despite appearing gruesome are only in the ha'penny place when compared to this guy's recollections (he had been undercover).

And one last thing. There was a drug sold in New York in the '70s and it was referred to as 'blue' . I don't think it was actually blue coloured, but that's how it was referred to by junkies and police. If Netflix is to be believed. (can't put up links or any reference, as I can't remember where I saw that).

Roger Hassenforder

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The show (h)as ran out of steam.

This for me.
Really enjoyed the ride, but time to get off.
Brilliant? Yes.
Just has ran its course.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

This for me.
Really enjoyed the ride, but time to get off.
Brilliant? Yes.
Just has ran its course.

Lol. You’ll absolutely 100% be watching next season.

Tony EH

Haven't watched the last four episodes yet. Been saving them.

But, I'm a bit bewildered at the negativity towards this year? Strange.

Tony EH

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the idea that there is a spin off in Mike is a non runner. Mike is a super character but there isn't enough to sustain a series, unless you think that him going around making faces is enough for a series. He doesn't really have all that much to say for himself.
Jimmy/Saul has been developed as such an interesting multi faceted and mouthy character that I would be delirious with excitement if they announced a series charting what happens to him after BrBa.
He is that rare thing = eminently watchable and entertaining.

There's enough Mike in 'Better Call Saul' for it to be considered a "Mike spin off" as well.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tony EH wrote: »

Haven't watched the last four episodes yet. Been saving them.

But, I'm a bit bewildered at the negativity towards this year? Strange.

If you’re bewildered by the negativity but have enjoyed the season up to this point I promise you won’t be disappointed. It’s a masterpiece. The comments about it being “boring” are completely unfounded.

Boom_Bap

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Lol. You’ll absolutely 100% be watching next season.

We know what happens, we are now so close to know exactly how he got there. Next season is essential viewing.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Boom_Bap wrote: »

We know what happens, we are now so close to know exactly how he got there. Next season is essential viewing.

I’ve started watching B.B. from the start again, it’s unreal seeing the same buildings and other stuff that I only thought was in BCS. It’s like I’m watching B.B. for the first time.

Boom_Bap

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I’ve started watching B.B. from the start again, it’s unreal seeing the same buildings and other stuff that I only thought was in BCS. It’s like I’m watching B.B. for the first time.

I need to watch it again from the start as well, I don't think I have even rewatched the final season since it aired.

FrancieBrady

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I’ve started watching B.B. from the start again,

That might be a plan!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Boom_Bap wrote: »

I need to watch it again from the start as well, I don't think I have even rewatched the final season since it aired.

There’s so much more to the earlier seasons now of B.B. Seeing the Salamanca’s for the first time you’ll appreciate the writing so much more. The character crossover is unreal too. When BCS is done the transition from that to B.B. will be seamless.

I really really hope with these flashforwards we’re seeing in BCS of Saul working in Cinnabon and running from whoever will become the last few episodes of the last season. I want to know some unanswered questions from the B.B. finale.

How anyone can say they won’t bother with this after all the seasons of B.B. and now four seasons of BCS is mind boggling. For me these shows are essential viewing.

Roger Hassenforder

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Lol. You’ll absolutely 100% be watching next season.

Probably!
(Mos def!! ))
I wouldnt be gutted if it didnt come back tho, and i wont be counting down the weeks like game of thrones)

Im still watching walking dead, cursing it at the end of every episode.
Still cant forgive myself for seeing Lost through, knowing it was ****e. But still...

Tony EH

Hunky Monster wrote: »

If you’re bewildered by the negativity but have enjoyed the season up to this point I promise you won’t be disappointed. It’s a masterpiece. The comments about it being “boring” are completely unfounded.

Oh no doubt. But, if someone is bored by something, switch it off and do something else. It's easy.

'Better Call Saul', to me anyway, is the best thing on tele. I find it compelling drama, even if it's a little low key at times. But Jimmy is such a great character and supported by other great characters, like Mike and Gus.

The only slight downside is Kim. I'm not that bothered by her story and I don't really buy into her relationship with Jimmy. But, then again, I don't think the characters do, that much, either.

If there's a boring side to 'Better Call Saul', then it's her. But, she's still a realistic character and has her moments. She's, probably, the most realistic on the show, if the truth be told. Which is why, in comparison, to the other people she can come across as a little "beige".

There's also been a lot of Kim this year. Perhaps that's why some people are finding it "boring"?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Probably!
(Mos def!! ))
I wouldnt be gutted if it didnt come back tho, and i wont be counting down the weeks like game of thrones)

Im still watching walking dead, cursing it at the end of every episode.
Still cant forgive myself for seeing Lost through, knowing it was ****e. But still...

I can appreciate that feeling. Dexter and Sons Of Anarchy were up there for me as just great shows but the last few seasons of each were abysmal, particularly Dexter. My god what a train wreck of the last 3 seasons. I’d so much time invested in these characters I just kept on watching despite the show turning into a gigantic turd.

De Bhál

I started re-watching Breaking Bad a couple of weeks ago - flying through it. Such a great show. What an actor Bryan Cranston is.

While I enjoy BCS I love Breaking Bad. Storyline moves along a a quicker pace and there's less I dunno...slowness.

But really both are two great shows and in 10 years time I'll hopefully sit down with my now 7 and 5yr olds and watch them both (if they still talk to me).

De Bhál

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I can appreciate that feeling. Dexter and Sons Of Anarchy were up there for me as just great shows but the last few seasons of each were abysmal, particularly Dexter. My god what a train wreck of the last 3 seasons. I’d so much time invested in these characters I just kept on watching despite the show turning into a gigantic turd.

I gave up on Dexter but saw SOA through. Good God it got bad, i believe there was a spinoff with the opposing MC gang. Couldn't put myself through that again

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tony EH wrote: »

Oh no doubt. But, if someone is bored by something, switch it off and do something else. It's easy.

'Better Call Saul', to me anyway, is the best thing on tele. I find it compelling drama, even if it's a little low key at times. But Jimmy is such a great character and supported by other great characters, like Mike and Gus.

The only slight downside is Kim. I'm not that bothered by her story and I don't really buy into her relationship with Jimmy. But, then again, I don't think the characters do, that much, either.

If there's a boring side to 'Better Call Saul', then it's her. But, she's still a realistic character and has her moments. She's, probably, the most realistic on the show, if the truth be told. Which is why, in comparison, to the other people she can come across as a little "beige".

There's also been a lot of Kim this year. Perhaps that's why some people are finding it "boring"?

Spoilers don’t read if you’re only on episode 8.

I agree completely. Kim is the thing grinding people’s gears the most I feel bit as you said she’s the most realistic person on the show. Her consistent flip flopping is annoying but not a flaw in the show or writing. I know a few people like that in real life, I can safely say I don’t know a Saul or a Mike.

Kim is a complicated character. One minute she wants to keep everything above board, the next she’s exhilarated by herself and Jimmy’s dubious antics. She even encourages them. When herself and jimmy are in on a con together that’s when she’s at her happiest.

She’s also been trying to get jimmy to accept or acknowledge his feelings towards Chuck while at the same time watching jimmy cry on his brothers grave.

She’s in on the whole con job to get jimmys lawyer status back, that is until jimmy goes off script, everyone buys it, even Kim who cries. When they come out afterwards he’s calling them all morons for having tears in their eyes, Kim was one of those “morons”. This is one con job Kim wasnt part of. Jimmy had even fooled her, she thought he was accepting what Chuck had meant to him, meanwhile he was becoming Saul, absolutely no remorse. Jimmy is dead. Now we have Saul.