Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

Kirby

Jimmy was too smart to throw away a seven-year sentence like that. Life in prison isn't worth a fleeting moment of catharsis. He would know that. You can admit your mistakes and atone for them without throwing your life away.

It didn't sit well with me, to be honest. I'm also of the personal belief that non-violent crimes like the ones he was accused and guilty of shouldn't have sentences that long so that probably colors my opinion on it a little.

Seth Brundle

I'm also of the personal belief that non-violent crimes like the ones he was accused and guilty of shouldn't have sentences that long so that probably colors my opinion on it a little.

He was accused of involvement in multiple homicides including two federal agents

Royale with Cheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483881#Comment_119483881

Have to agree with this, it felt like they needed to end the show with a redemption arc so he throws away his unbelievable deal just to come clean and then spend the rest of his life in prison. I can't see how that trade would be worth it for anybody, Jimmy would be lying in his prison bed 10/20 years later regretting that decision.

RocketRaccoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483143#Comment_119483143

I'm convinced some people are just saying things like this for a reaction because nobody who watched breaking bad and then BCS can ever think twice about watching another Vince Gilligan show.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119482206#Comment_119482206

Here is a full summary of BCS season1-6

https://youtu.be/f4lTX7qmNH4

Penn

I thought the reasons for Jimmy taking the full charges rather than the 7 years were pretty clear, and it's mostly tied to the flashbacks in the episode. Mike's time machine choice would have led him down a different path whereas Jimmy's choice only would have made him rich, which Mike admonishes him for. When talking to Walt his regret is about one of his earliest scams which led to him becoming Slippin' Jimmy, which Walt says "So you were always like this..." Then the Chuck flashback, it's shown Chuck is the one who had the book about The Time Machine (which likely led to Jimmy’s questions to Mike & Walt) and Chuck says it's not too late for Jimmy to change his path.

Jimmy confessed and took the full 85 years because getting it knocked down to 7 years is another Saul Goodman move. He challenged Kim in their phone call to confess to her role in Howard's death, and she did. She changed, and he didn't. He realised he needed to stop being Saul and be Jimmy. He couldn't do that if he was still pulling Saul Goodman moves.

His confession and redemption had to come at the cost of life behind bars. He can't say "Well, I'll do this one last move to get out of jail in 7 years, and then I'll redeem myself".

2smiggy

he was unhappy in his life in Nebraska cooking buns for a living. Now he is living his life in prison, also cooking buns, but with the respect of the prisoners, and Kim.

FrancieBrady

Just so happy to have been onboard this rollercoaster. The most satisfying thing I have ever watched.

Thank you team Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul.

Doctor Jimbob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483881#Comment_119483881

I think part of the point is that he can't admit his mistakes and atone for them. He spent years putting on a ridiculous persona as Saul to avoid facing his mistakes, and even after that all blew up in his face and he had to go into hiding, he still started going back to his old ways as Gene. Even if you look back to older seasons of BCS, he has moments where he's trying to straighten his life out only to start running scams or getting involved with criminals again.

It's a bit far-fetched all right, but it absolutely fits the character.

Cloudio9

Don't know if it's discussed already but what was the point of Kim repeatedly being unable to make a decision or give an opinion in Florida ?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484646#Comment_119484646

Trauma.

Her decisions led to Howard being brutally shot in front of her. That's gonna take a toll and it did as we saw on the bus and the life she was leading.

thegreengoblin

I remember early in the series thinking that some of the episodes were a bit slow and could do with being slightly more turbo charged. Not that I can't handle good character build-up or anything like that, I love that kind of show. I just wanted a bit more 'oomph' at times. Of course, now that it's all over I would kill to see one of those 'easier' episodes again!

I've never seen a show offer so much attention to detail. What an incredible little universe Vince Gill came up with. Brilliant characters and writing so sharp you could nearly cut yourself watching it. Outside of Jimmy and Kim, I had a real soft spot for Howard. I loved his mannerisms and his interaction with Jimmy were pure gold. That big moment, horrible as it was, will stay forever with me.

The Chuck/Jimmy storyline was a bit overwrought at times but it's a very minor issue for me. I'm just nitpicking, really.

Farewell, Saul. You won't be forgotten in a hurry.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483210#Comment_119483210

Ah that would have been too obvious. The way they did it the audience reaction was the same as Bill - shock/incredulity and trying to stop him.

I thought Peter Diseth played the Bill character brilliantly. The subtle looks at the hearing, the worry at phone call, the weariness of talking to Saul.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484646#Comment_119484646

I think it was she did not want to start offering opinions, as she would end up being ‘bad Kim’ again.

A negative influence - like she did when she suggested, and egged on the Howard plan. So it was much safer for her mentally to stay in the ‘well maybe’ ‘what do you think yourself?’ mode.

rubadub

"Following the broadcast run of Better Call Saul, Gilligan said he does not plan to create any more works related to Breaking Bad,[27] but instead was working towards a new show, a science fiction genre piece that has been compared to The X-Files and The Twilight Zone.[28]

"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Gilligan#Breaking_Bad_and_Better_Call_Saul

The Mighty Quinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485060#Comment_119485060

Sounds right up my street. Really loved the X-Files. He wrote 30 episodes. I don't know off-hand if I liked any of them, but I'm sure there must have been some good 'uns in there!

Homelander

Tremendous finale, bittersweet, full of meaning, gives incredible closure. No point going into it too much as others have it well covered already.

What I will say is that it reminds me how irritating it is when people claim those who crap on poor finales - Game of Thrones being a perfect example - just "want to find something to hate" or "are just annoyed their fan theories didn't play out".

Breaking Bad landed it perfectly, and now Better Call Saul has as well - absolutely stunning TV in consistency and quality in every detail.

I can't believe I initially balked at the idea of a Saul prequel, and now I can't believe it's over, 7 years later.

10/10 stuff. The BB universe will be sorely missed, but very much looking forward to Gilligan's next project.

Kirby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483903#Comment_119483903

Yes but "involvement" is a pretty nebulous concept. He wasn't there, had no knowledge of the killings prior to them happening, never even interacted with the perpetrator of said killings.

All the crimes he actually committed and was guilty of were non-violent. People shouldn't go to jail for 100 years for money laundering. It's the sort of reach an agency goes for when all the guilty parties are either dead or are in the wind. It's an overreach.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Now that's how you do a finale to a season, to a show, to 15 years of the best TV I've ever seen.

No complaints. Just brilliant.

And now sad we'll never see these characters again.

seraphimvc

Watched it last night that we synced the episode with my mate in Spain aha (we had a live BB finale watch together back then).

And ya what a satisfying ending for the whole BB/BCS universe. Bitter sweet nonetheless. Incredible work from the team and I really cannot wait for their next project. And I actually will rewatch BB+BCS soon enough (since missus was so far behind aha).

Personally, I would like a bit more sweets, like a really happy ending for Jimmy+Kim (with some ridiculous twist like Kim and Jimmy got into the same prison and doing their antics there lol). But I am happy enough to see how Kim still loves Jimmy deeply (ye no Saul didn't work out), and then ya, I would like to think that Kim would visit Jimmy often - get old together - until they passed away. :'(

And it is so good to see Kim is starting to pick her life up again. And the parts with Jesse (second last episode) and Walter are such nice addition to the characters. Yes, I will miss the whole BB universe deeply. What a beautiful show, THE best show.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119483210#Comment_119483210

Yes, personally I would like to see that. But I am pretty sure that is a difficult option for the writers team - between whether we will see Jimmy did the right thing as a lawyer (resolving the whole Saul thing + made up with Kim), or he somehow got away (again) as the old 'slipping Jimmy'. Very tough call.

Glad they did what they did though.

RocketRaccoon

If he got the 7 years in prison then we'd have people calling for another spin off within a year or 2, this way it is finished. There's no more show to make with Saul, no more stories to tell.

TomSweeney

Weeks ago I was talking to my wife about BCS and how it will end for Saul. I was saying there has to be closure, and the best closure for him regarding the BB universe and how everyone else was killed or got away - would be prison.

I didn't want him getting away with it and starting a new identity - that would be just back to S1E1 again with Gene in the cinabun, now it would be Mike in Starbucks or whatever ...

So I was really hoping he'd end up in prison - for life.

But now as I was watching the episode and I saw the scam he pulled that said he was in fear and terrified of being killed by WW , I thought wow .. did not see that coming, and I started rooting for him again ...when he had them to 7 years I tought that's what he'd do and we'd get a CODA at the end "10 years later " and see him back at what he does best - ambulance chasing lawyer ...

So I was a bit disappointed with that ending, even though it is a closure ending, him back as a lawyer just leaves it open to endless seasons/spinoiffs etc.

But let's be honest, Saul would not have passed on that 7 year sentence - for 80+ years ... in the worst max security hellhole - no f*cking way.

Should have made it so, there never was a 7 year deal ....

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

^Regarding that. The seven year deal was a sacrifice he had to make to get his soul back...to cleanse himself of Saul Goodman, to be Jimmy McGill again and to make sure Kim was protected.

The seven year deal was on the table and going ahead until he heard Kim confessed.

It was Saul's sacrifice. He needed to do it in order to be Jimmy McGill.

km79

A little underwhelmed if I’m being honest but a good finale none the less

Breaking bad still number one for me but I doubt there will ever be a spin off show of the quality of BCS again !

km79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119485260#Comment_119485260

Well I can’t wait for whatever that will be ! Loved the xfiles

wylo

To be honest I love the fact that they concluded it properly and genuinely wrapped things up, and with no bitter taste for the audience. Not enough of that these days. So a good finale on that basis.

However, having now seen the finale I do question a little the flow of the whole season in the Gene era.

The episode where he transitions to Saul was so beautifully done. You could almost feel the pain of his loneliness as soon as it concludes the fact that he was now Saul (with Kim gone). Definitely a runner to be the final scene of the entire series.

But now it’s making the post-BB phase look more like an epilogue that they had too much time for.

I agree that they needed to close it off but I would rather it spent more time on Jimmy “Breaking Good” than messing around with all the Gene stuff. Feels like the writers tried to start something but had to wrap it up too quickly.

I would prefer if they gave us a more emotional and meaningful reason for him getting his closure and wanting to take responsibility for a change.

Perhaps a nicer way to play it out is that he gets arrested almost immediately after trying to become Gene. And they work it out from there in perhaps 2 episodes.

Spoiler here for a fairly old movie:

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If anyone has seen the movie Flight, there are parallels but I thought that movie handled it better by taking it to a level where he could just not tell one more lie after the lengths he had taken it to. Something like that would have worked well in BCS with more time given to it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119484031#Comment_119484031

Well here I am. If they put out another series and its paced like BCS rather than BB, I'll give up early on. BCS didn't respect my time at all towards the end. It probably never did but I put up with it at the start. Plenty of people I know gave up on saying it was slow. I get it now. Choc full of filler. Something clicked for me in the last season and realised how pointlessly drawn out everything is. There's a fair few plot lines even in the short Gene timeline that were superfluous, with elaborate heist scenes drawing it out. It ended well but overall BCS is fairly middling compared to other shows. Not a hope I'd be rewatching.

johnny_ultimate

For me it’s a show that always had immense respect for the viewer’s time and attention. The space it gave scenes and subplots to play out is extremely uncommon in mainstream television, and a central reason why it had such rich characterisation and such a particular tone & rhythm. I was as happy watching an episode where a scheme played out in slow motion as I was with the ones with high-stakes cartel fights or major character moments.

It’s a very different show to Mad Men, but that was another series where each episode felt uniquely designed and ‘whole’ while still feeding into a satisfying overall arc. Indeed, with so many shows embracing a ‘binge watch’ model, BCS was a show that always worked extremely well as a once a week treat as they almost felt like mini-movies alongside a great serialised, long-form story.

I’ll miss having new episodes to look forward to, but definitely excited to see what Gould and Gilligan are planning (whether together or separately) given how much they’ve honed their storytelling and filmmaking sensibilities over the years.

Just finished it. For me it was the perfect ending. Some people have been saying that it stretches credibility in that no-one, no matter how much they wanted to redeem themselves, would switch an 84 month sentence with an 84 year one. But I think that his life as Gene was utterly miserable and that was all he had to look forward to. So it wasn’t a stretch for him to sacrifice up those years for Kim. He knew that he’d be looked up to in prison… the knowing smile on his face on the bus when the chants started shows me that was what he’d planned all along. The fist bumps with the other cons illustrates his standing…..probably doing legal advice for cons and guards alike.

That’s the best life he could have hoped for at that stage

the sharing a smoke with Kim was a genius way to finish.