Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

storker

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Chuck made a recording. That itself is suspicious for a man who is has such a condition. Tied to the fact that he switched out the original, placed a duplicate and had a security guard and the managing partner at the scene leads to a cocktail of entrapment.

If entrapment is held it acts as a full defence for Jimmy and Chuck could be up on ethics charges.

Great stuff, thanks for posting, and good point about Ernesto. He was entrapped as much as Jimmy, and Chuck fired him even though he did what Chuck wanted. Jimmy has some huge faults, but being a vindictive pr1ck isn't one of them; that's Chuck's area of expertise.

I love how the theme of actions having consequences continues. If Howard hadn't treated Kim so badly in Season 2, she would not have decided to leave HHM and Mesa Verde would still be a HHM client and Jimmy's copy and paste scam would never have happened. Now they're lost Mesa Verde, and Jimmy has Kim defending him, whereas otherwise he might be conducting his own defence with probably disastrous consequences.

NellyJelly

The only bad thing about this show is that I know deep down Jimmy and Kim don't live happily ever after.

Boom_Bap

NellyJelly wrote: »

The only bad thing about this show is that I know deep down Jimmy and Kim don't live happily ever after.

Was she ever mentioned in Breaking Bad?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Boom_Bap

HHHHmmmm, it's going to be interesting to see what happens with her. Part of me hopes that she was always in the background and dictating what Saul Goodman done

Cloudio9

NellyJelly wrote: »

The only bad thing about this show is that I know deep down Jimmy and Kim don't live happily ever after.

I don't find them credible as a couple.

ardinn

She was in breaking bad wasnt she??

jcsoulinger

ardinn wrote: »

She was in breaking bad wasnt she??

Nope

_Kaiser_

Cloudio9 wrote: »

I don't find them credible as a couple.

Agreed. While she's not nearly as objectionable this season, she still has no interest in Jimmy romantically which is very clear.

I'm even surprised she's standing by him at the moment TBH given her stance last season on Jimmy's willingness to bend the rules when needed. Could just as easily seen her telling him he was on his own when the tape/truth came out.

jcsoulinger

storker wrote: »

I love how the theme of actions having consequences continues. If Howard hadn't treated Kim so badly in Season 2, she would not have decided to leave HHM and Mesa Verde would still be a HHM client and Jimmy's copy and paste scam would never have happened. Now they're lost Mesa Verde, and Jimmy has Kim defending him, whereas otherwise he might be conducting his own defence with probably disastrous consequences.

If Jimmy never did the "copy and paste scam" then what would he be conducting his own defense to?

Oafley Jones

I really like this show, but I can never get away from how much of each episode is taken up with "what are they doing". It's quite a shallow thing that's padded with keeping the audience intrigued with the various trade craft.

storker

jcsoulinger wrote: »

If Jimmy never did the "copy and paste scam" then what would he be conducting his own defense to?

Yes that's true.

loremolis

storker wrote: »

Great stuff, thanks for posting, and good point about Ernesto. He was entrapped as much as Jimmy, and Chuck fired him even though he did what Chuck wanted. Jimmy has some huge faults, but being a vindictive pr1ck isn't one of them; that's Chuck's area of expertise.

I love how the theme of actions having consequences continues. If Howard hadn't treated Kim so badly in Season 2, she would not have decided to leave HHM and Mesa Verde would still be a HHM client and Jimmy's copy and paste scam would never have happened. Now they're lost Mesa Verde, and Jimmy has Kim defending him, whereas otherwise he might be conducting his own defence with probably disastrous consequences.

Your logic is flawed.

If the copy and paste scam never happened then Kimmy would not have had anything to confess to Chuck about and there would be no case against Jimmy for Kim to defend.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Oops, sorry, didn't spot the earlier posts pointing this out.

One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

jcsoulinger

loremolis wrote: »

Your logic is flawed.

If the copy and paste scam never happened then Kimmy would not have had anything to confess to Chuck about and there would be no case against Jimmy for Kim to defend.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

Oops, sorry, didn't spot the earlier posts pointing this out.

One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

Ya maybe they rule in favour of Jimmy, but Kim gets caught up in it and she ends up being disbarred, which would be a real ironic tragedy.

storker

loremolis wrote: »

Your logic is flawed.
One more thing, is the whole 'bingo' thing too obvious? We all think that jimmy is going to beat Chuck on this but it's possible that we're being mislead by the writers in order to create a bigger surprise when Chuck wins the case.

I'll be disappointed if there're is not a twist to this that we don't see coming.

Agreed. I'd be surprised if putting one over on Howard, and Chuck with his encyclopaedic knowledge of case law, turned out to be so easy. That admission about the duplicate came a little too easily, I think.

leggo

I could buy them getting one over on them because Kim and Jimmy are now doing the conman team thing, which it's established they're good at (whereas Howard and Chuck would expect Kim to be by book). But yeah I'd also say that there's another twist in the works. Jimmy has to become Saul at some stage and this seems a perfectly plausible way to do it.

take everything

rubadub wrote: »

I doubt the duplicate tape would be in chucks house.

I would have thought copying an important tape would be standard practice for lawyers. I remember in my work 15+years ago data was backed up to tape and taken home by a manager (like chuck would not have 2 copies in the same house of an important tape)

What I am wondering is:
If copying a tape is a common practice (as you say) would this undermine any argument Kim might try to make in regard to entrapment. In the sense that if it was common practice, Chuck could argue that there would have been no motive on his part as he would have known Jimmy wouldn't have broken in (if copying a tape was common practice) (ie why would someone break in if there was another copy).

Indeed, you could ask why did Jimmy break in at all in the first place (entrapment or not) if this was common practice.

rubadub

take everything wrote: »

Indeed, you could ask why did Jimmy break in at all in the first place (entrapment or not) if this was common practice.

I wondered that myself. Chuck seemed absolutely certain he was going to break in. At the start of the episode I copped why the guy was in Chucks house, but could not figure out how he was so sure Jimmy would come after the PI being there for several days.

Jimmy seemed to fly into a rage and did it spur of the moment. I don't think he thought he was getting the only copy, he mentioned copies.

You pulled that heartstrings con job on me? You piece of ****! [IMITATING CHUCK] "Oh, my brain used to work.
"I'm sick.
I don't know what to do.
" [IN NORMAL VOICE] Asshole! No wonder Rebecca left you.
What took her so long? There it is! Here we go.
Here we go.
Here we go.
[GRUNTING] Is this it? Is this it? Is this it? Huh? For this, you destroyed our family? You happy now? For what? For nothing! Is that all there is, Chuck? It's all the all there is? Or did you make copies? Huh, Chuck? Huh? You tell me, or I'll burn this whole goddamn house to the ground.

Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=better-call-saul-2015&episode=s03e02

It is one of the things that bugged me in this season, the bigger thing being how atrocious Jimmy was as a spy for Mike. For a guy with a lifelong history of pulling off many successful scams, posing as other characters, you would think he would know how to be covert.

take everything

rubadub wrote: »

I wondered that myself. Chuck seemed absolutely certain he was going to break in. At the start of the episode I copped why the guy was in Chucks house, but could not figure out how he was so sure Jimmy would come after the PI being there for several days.

Jimmy seemed to fly into a rage and did it spur of the moment. I don't think he thought he was getting the only copy, he mentioned copies.


Read more: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=better-call-saul-2015&episode=s03e02

It is one of the things that bugged me in this season, the bigger thing being how atrocious Jimmy was as a spy for Mike. For a guy with a lifelong history of pulling off many successful scams, posing as other characters, you would think he would know how to be covert.

So could Jimmy and Kim be playing Chuck's game (including breaking in) ever since Ernesto told them about it. They are masters at the con game.

That may be implausible as I admit I may have missed stuff but it would make for a hell of a twist. And fit the narrative of Jimmy outsmarting his brother's supposed high-minded methods (which really use just as many dirty tricks) by Jimmy and Kim's being more skilled at this stuff.
And being more honest with themselves than Chuck about how they go about it.

I dunno.
Can't wait for Tuesday

Murrisk

rubadub wrote: »

Also just discovered that Don Eladio is played by the same actor who played Manny in scarface!

Seriously, only now? 2011 wants its revelation back! :P

Hank Scorpio

Well that was excellent.

Murrisk

Custardpi wrote: »

If you're watching BCS in expectation of dramatic fight scenes & explosions you're going to be disappointed & would be better off tuning out & going to watch Batman vs Superman instead.

Well, into the third season, I officially give up on BCS. My OH watches so I have by proxy and I just... don't like it.

The reason I have quoted the above is because it's a prevalent view amongst BCS fans, I find, but is so simplistic and binary. It's not a choice between liking character development or liking fights and explosions. More than any show, the reaction towards people who don't like the show tends to veer towards insulting.

For me, I don't care about what happens to the characters and the show is just too slow. People seem to argue that BB was just as much of a slow burn as BCS, but that is a crock. The first two seasons of BB are like a lava flow on a steep gradient compared to BCS. SO much happened in that two seasons whilst at the same, characters were developed. Ditto something like Sopranos. These shows were multilayered, something that I think BCS is missing.

To me, it reads like the writers are having trouble coming up with a story for how Jimmy ends up becoming Saul. The more likely thing would be that he was always a bit of a shyster and they have tried to do the opposite. Portraying him as a thoughtful guy just reads clunky and false to me. It also reads like they realise they have to drag out the transformation to Saul because when that happens, the show is probably over. And that dragging out doesn't work, IMO.

I was very reluctant to write this post. I have read a lot of message board threads on BCS and the attitude towards people who dislike the show is mostly insulting. Likewise, the critical acclaim is almost universal, moreso than Breaking Bad, with some critics suggesting it surpasses BB! :eek: Even BB didn't get universal acclaim throughout its run.

steve_r

Murrisk wrote: »

Well, into the third season, I officially give up on BCS. My OH watches so I have by proxy and I just... don't like it.

The reason I have quoted the above is because it's a prevalent view amongst BCS fans, I find, but is so simplistic and binary. It's not a choice between liking character development or liking fights and explosions. More than any show, the reaction towards people who don't like the show tends to veer towards insulting.

For me, I don't care about what happens to the characters and the show is just too slow. People seem to argue that BB was just as much of a slow burn as BCS, but that is a crock. The first two seasons of BB are like a lava flow on a steep gradient compared to BCS. SO much happened in that two seasons whilst at the same, characters were developed. Ditto something like Sopranos. These shows were multilayered, something that I think BCS is missing.

To me, it reads like the writers are having trouble coming up with a story for how Jimmy ends up becoming Saul. The more likely thing would be that he was always a bit of a shyster and they have tried to do the opposite. Portraying him as a thoughtful guy just reads clunky and false to me. It also reads like they realise they have to drag out the transformation to Saul because when that happens, the show is probably over. And that dragging out doesn't work, IMO.

I was very reluctant to write this post. I have read a lot of message board threads on BCS and the attitude towards people who dislike the show is mostly insulting. Likewise, the critical acclaim is almost universal, moreso than Breaking Bad, with some critics suggesting it surpasses BB! :eek: Even BB didn't get universal acclaim throughout its run.

I think that's a fair viewpoint. I love BCS, but when I was reading your piece a part of me did wonder if the slow buildup will ever truely go anywhere.

It will be interesting to see what the view is in a few years when the dust has settled. It's easy to get caught up in the hype of an ongoing show that can get over-praised when it is out. In a few years the commentary will be a lot more nuanced and refined as people will have more perspective.

Personally I prefer BCS over BB, and that's really just becuase I find the core characters more interesting which is a subjective point. I'm agnostic towards the pacing, but appreciate it fustrates some people.

take everything

God that episode was good.
Almost felt sorry for Chuck in the end.

Wonderful television

-=al=-

And he is gone! :pac:

robwen

Anyone confirm the length of this week's episode? Any stream I've started shows up just over 34 mins seems quite a bit shorter than usual, don't want to start watching & find a good chunk missing towards end

Slydice

At very end as I saw how much was happening to Chuck, how far it was gone... it wasn't sorry for him but just.. I dunno.. like just what a waste.

Slydice

robwen wrote: »

Anyone confirm the length of this week's episode? Any stream I've started shows up just over 34 mins seems quite a bit shorter than usual, don't want to start watching & find a good chunk missing towards end

49min:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5719536/

Better Call Saul (2015– ) 9.9/10 (481)
Chicanery
15 | 49min | Crime, Drama | Episode aired 8 May 2017

Cloudio9

But at the end of the day we still have Jimmy admitting to committing a crime. He admits that it's his voice on the tape. Is there a sting in the tail for Jimmy coming ?

Keplar240B

A stand alone battery would give off hardly any electromagnetic field, its switched off no current flowing?