Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

Atlantic Dawn

Great episode, in the court room scene I was 100% convinced that Chuck had a mobile phone planted on him by the big lad working for Jimmy and that he was going to call him during his cross examination, never could have seen the battery being planted.

johnpatrick81

I too wasn't sure what the "bingo" meant at the end of the last episode, red herring?

That was great, but please now, the end of Chuck!!

Also, I called it, yer wan the ex being brought in! That was purely to rattle Chuck.

The battery trick was great, I too would have thought a phone but like others said, too heavy.

Huell! "One hour 43!" Boooom!

johnpatrick81

https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/6916yg/theory_on_kims_bingo_in_the_latest_episode/

Many nail it above, Kim merely wanted to confirm there was a copy of the tape to ensure they could go ahead with the plan to make Chuck seem mad.

Alcoheda

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Great episode, in the court room scene I was 100% convinced that Chuck had a mobile phone planted on him by the big lad working for Jimmy and that he was going to call him during his cross examination, never could have seen the battery being planted.

He should have argued that the battery represents a potential difference, not a flowing currant, hense no electromagnetic radiation :pac:

I actually thought the final scene was laboured and a bit daft.
Good show overall though.

Armchair Andy

Alcoheda wrote:

He should have argued that the battery represents a potential difference, not a flowing currant, hense no electromagnetic radiation

That was my first thought too. No load on the battery, no emf.

Mousewar

I've finally caught up on the new series so can finally enter this thread.
I am, by far, enjoying this season the most of all them and that culminated in the latest episode, which I think was the best episode of BCS I've seen. What a complete and utter destruction of Chuck, magnificently shot, filmed, and acted. I was struck by two things watching it. The first was how extraordinarily evil Chuck really is. Beneath that veneer of respectability is a horrible, selfish, spiteful, hateful man. And yet, the second thing that struck me was how I still felt sorry for him. How could you not when you witness such devastation and such obvious mental illness? Whatever about him but he is a brilliant character and Michael McKean has done a wonderful job with him.

Nerdlingr

Fantastic episode. Great acting all round. Still looking forward to see how Jimmy becomes Saul...and what becomes of Kim! Watching it last night I kept thinking what a great villain in a movie Michael McKean would make, he's got a great sinister voice, could easily see him playing someone like "The Penguin" in a Batman movie. Definitely plays the seething resentment really well.

Mousewar

Mousewar wrote: »

I've finally caught up on the new series so can finally enter this thread.
I am, by far, enjoying this season the most of all them and that culminated in the latest episode, which I think was the best episode of BCS I've seen. What a complete and utter destruction of Chuck, magnificently shot, filmed, and acted. I was struck by two things watching it. The first was how extraordinarily evil Chuck really is. Beneath that veneer of respectability is a horrible, selfish, spiteful, hateful man. And yet, the second thing that struck me was how I still felt sorry for him. How could you not when you witness such devastation and such obvious mental illness? Whatever about him but he is a brilliant character and Michael McKean has done a wonderful job with him.

Yes, Chuck really has it in for his brother but is he evil?

Consider everything Chuck said in his rant, while he couldn't prove Jimmy's wrong doing, was he wrong is his accusations?

leggo

Yeah I wouldn't say Chuck is evil, it's shades of grey, you can definitely see his point. We're rooting for Jimmy, but are we rooting for him because he's right or because he's entertaining and we just like him more?

Nerdlingr

Does Chuck have any redeeming features though?
As he said himself, Jimmy does bad things borne from good intentions.
But Chuck just seems resentful and bitter.
Even Howard, who we were led to dislike at the start, has been shown to have some noble characteristics.

leggo

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Does Chuck have any redeeming features though?
As he said himself, Jimmy does bad things borne from good intentions.
But Chuck just seems resentful and bitter.
Even Howard, who we were led to dislike at the start, has been shown to have some noble characteristics.

Depends on your perception. Like you could argue that Chuck's entire motivation is based around doing what's 'good' and that his need for justice is almost to a fault (to the point it costs his his relationship with his brother). And that ironically leads to him doing bad things, raising the questions of what is actually good? Is it wanting to do the right thing but so much so that it makes you wrong? Or is it being okay doing the wrong thing when you feel like it serves a greater purpose to be right in the grand scheme?

NickNickleby

Here's an idea!!

Chuck gets the boot from HHM. Howard, having seen how good Kim is, offers her a Partner position and she takes Mesa Verde with her, selling the availability of backup in the larger organisation, along with the the fact of Chuck being gone. Leaves Jimmy on his own to start afresh as Saul.

davo2001

NickNickleby wrote: »

Here's an idea!!

Chuck gets the boot from HHM. Howard, having seen how good Kim is, offers her a Partner position and she takes Mesa Verde with her, selling the availability of backup in the larger organisation, along with the the fact of Chuck being gone. Leaves Jimmy on his own to start afresh as Saul.

But why the name change then?

dinorebel

davo2001 wrote: »

But why the name change then?

They pay him to not use the name McGill?

Mousewar

leggo wrote: »

Depends on your perception. Like you could argue that Chuck's entire motivation is based around doing what's 'good' and that his need for justice is almost to a fault (to the point it costs his his relationship with his brother). And that ironically leads to him doing bad things, raising the questions of what is actually good? Is it wanting to do the right thing but so much so that it makes you wrong? Or is it being okay doing the wrong thing when you feel like it serves a greater purpose to be right in the grand scheme?

The show has gone to great lengths to show how much Chuck resents Jimmy. He is jealous of him and extremely bitter. That motivates his behaviour towards him, not some smokescreen of wanting to uphold the law.
That's why I consider him 'evil'.

Nerdlingr

leggo wrote: »

Depends on your perception. Like you could argue that Chuck's entire motivation is based around doing what's 'good' and that his need for justice is almost to a fault (to the point it costs his his relationship with his brother). And that ironically leads to him doing bad things, raising the questions of what is actually good? Is it wanting to do the right thing but so much so that it makes you wrong? Or is it being okay doing the wrong thing when you feel like it serves a greater purpose to be right in the grand scheme?

But chuck's resentment stems from childhood and the family shop. We saw this underlying issue slip out last night. He's carried a grunge against Jimmy for 50(?) years or so?? He doesn't want Jimmy in his firm or see him as an equal because he got his legal papers in new mexico (or wherever). We see him practicing his speech at home. Its all contrived. He lands on the "Law must be upheld" or the "law is the one truth" line, its sounds good, so he goes with it. But does he believe it?? Everything he does is because he looks down on Jimmy, he's tried to block him at every turn.
I cant see any redeeming feature in him at all. I wouldn't call him evil, but he's pretty heartless.

Mousewar

Ultimately, both BCS and Breaking Bad are about the true depths of people (that people aren't what they appear to be).

Walt
Surface: Mild mannered nobody
Beneath the surface: 'Evil' Drug Lord and Murderer

Gus
Surface: Mild mannered pillar of society
Beneath the surface: 'Evil' Drug Lord and Murderer

Chuck
Surface: Polite, hard working, upper-class gentleman
Beneath the Surface: Embittered and unhinged manipulator

Jimmy:
Surface: Feckless con-man
Beneath the Surface: Hardworking, put-upon stiff with more good intentions than everyone else in the show combined.

NickNickleby

dinorebel wrote: »

They pay him to not use the name McGill?

that's a good one. Or he changes to get away from the shadow of Chuck and HHM and his own recent past. We already know how he comes up with the name, so he resurrects it for his new persona. And remember he refers to the preference of some clients to a Jewish named lawyer, in one of the BB episodes, perhaps the very first time he appeared there, I think he claims Irish descent, and Walt looks at him quizically, hence the reveal. That's IIRC.

Jobs OXO

NickNickleby wrote: »

Here's an idea!!

Chuck gets the boot from HHM. Howard, having seen how good Kim is, offers her a Partner position and she takes Mesa Verde with her, selling the availability of backup in the larger organisation, along with the the fact of Chuck being gone. Leaves Jimmy on his own to start afresh as Saul.

Kim will die unfortunately. And she looks well for a 44 year old lass as well

leggo

Nerdlingr wrote: »

But chuck's resentment stems from childhood and the family shop. We saw this underlying issue slip out last night. He's carried a grunge against Jimmy for 50(?) years or so?? He doesn't want Jimmy in his firm or see him as an equal because he got his legal papers in new mexico (or wherever). We see him practicing his speech at home. Its all contrived. He lands on the "Law must be upheld" or the "law is the one truth" line, its sounds good, so he goes with it. But does he believe it?? Everything he does is because he looks down on Jimmy, he's tried to block him at every turn.
I cant see any redeeming feature in him at all. I wouldn't call him evil, but he's pretty heartless.

Yeah but that comes from a feeling that Jimmy used to skim the shop and ultimately made his dad's life harder, while being closer with him. So it's a mix of jealousy and good intentions. The true story is more shades of grey than that but isn't that life?

I'm not saying Chuck is good, I'm Team Jimmy all the way, but to simply say one is good and the other evil is to devalue the nuance they go to great lengths to achieve in the show.

NickNickleby

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Kim will die unfortunately. And she looks well for a 44 year old lass as well

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Jobs OXO

NickNickleby wrote: »

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

I know. And I don't think we'll get to see those baps out of the wrapper either.

Nerdlingr

Nerdlingr wrote: »

But chuck's resentment stems from childhood and the family shop. We saw this underlying issue slip out last night. He's carried a grunge against Jimmy for 50(?) years or so?? He doesn't want Jimmy in his firm or see him as an equal because he got his legal papers in new mexico (or wherever). We see him practicing his speech at home. Its all contrived. He lands on the "Law must be upheld" or the "law is the one truth" line, its sounds good, so he goes with it. But does he believe it?? Everything he does is because he looks down on Jimmy, he's tried to block him at every turn.
I cant see any redeeming feature in him at all. I wouldn't call him evil, but he's pretty heartless.

Something like this?

optogirl

Jobs OXO wrote: »

I know. And I don't think we'll get to see those baps out of the wrapper either.

Jaysus - you're a fan but have no qualms reducing her to this. Stop the world I want to get off

ThisRegard

optogirl wrote: »

Jaysus - you're a fan but have no qualms reducing her to this.

It's par for the course for that poster unfortunately, pretty juvenile.

ardinn

optogirl wrote: »

Jaysus - you're a fan but have no qualms reducing her to this. Stop the world I want to get off

If that offends you I suggest getting off the internet at least!

Nerdlingr

leggo wrote: »

Yeah but that comes from a feeling that Jimmy used to skim the shop and ultimately made his dad's life harder, while being closer with him. So it's a mix of jealousy and good intentions. The true story is more shades of grey than that but isn't that life?

I'm not saying Chuck is good, I'm Team Jimmy all the way, but to simply say one is good and the other evil is to devalue the nuance they go to great lengths to achieve in the show.

I didn't say chuck was evil. My last line in post you quoted even says that. Or that Jimmy is "good". I asked has chuck any redeemable features. That's why I referenced Howard. He was set up as one to dislike but we actually discover he's not as bad as he seems. Chuck on the other hand doesn't seem to have any saving grace or characteristic that we can empathise with. Apart from his illness. He is driven by a seething resentment towards his brother.

johnpatrick81

Does Kim die? Or was that wild speculation?

FAILSAFE 00

Ha ha, **** YOU CHUCK

DeepBlue

Mousewar wrote: »

Ultimately, both BCS and Breaking Bad are about the true depths of people (that people aren't what they appear to be).

Walt
Surface: Mild mannered nobody
Beneath the surface: 'Evil' Drug Lord and Murderer

Gus
Surface: Mild mannered pillar of society
Beneath the surface: 'Evil' Drug Lord and Murderer

Chuck
Surface: Polite, hard working, upper-class gentleman
Beneath the Surface: Embittered and unhinged manipulator

Jimmy:
Surface: Feckless con-man
Beneath the Surface: Hardworking, put-upon stiff with more good intentions than everyone else in the show combined.

Let's not forget that Jimmy had no qualms suggesting that people should be "sent to Belize" in BB so he turned out to not have much of a problem with cold blooded murder even before other options were looked at in the case of Badger for example and Jesse later on.

Jimmy in BCS and Saul in BB are both affable, likeable guys but Saul in BB is definitely a bad guy.
In BCS we don't see that as much. At worst he's taking shortcuts and being Slippin' Jimmy. It will be interesting to see how the writer's make him "break bad".