Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

De Bhál

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Did anyone else get the sense that Mike was thinking that the black girl was lying about her husbands death? She said that everyone had heard the story before but Mike wanted her to say it to him face to face to confirm it. It would also make sense that she isn't in the church group to grieve but because she feels guilty. With Mike being a human lie detector I think he picked up on it.

When he made the call straight afterwards to Ron to "get back in" it made more sense that he knew he couldn't avoid criminality wherever he goes after finding a murderer in a church group spinning a rehearsed poor me story.

His face during the conversation wasn't the typical "I'm sorry this happened to you" expression but more of a "questioning cop" one.

No, none of that occurred to me, she seemed genuine to me.

I thought he rang the capsule supplier directly after because he figured, he (the capsule supplier), like the woman's husband will also end up missing due to his lack of street smarts dealing with criminals, and in doing so leave loved ones behind that will never know what happened him. I reckoned Mike felt his conscience at him, so rang him offer help.

I could be way off though...


On a different note, as mentioned earlier, the whole Jimmy/Kim relationship is a bit strange. One of the driest couples on TV.

Penn

The woman said she and her husband had opened their own store (can't remember what kind of store it was, maybe camping supplies or something), and that he was in the Navy (so would know how to handle himself against most random attackers and would be a pretty honest guy).

I think Mike may have realised that Hector or one of his crew may have been trying to get the guy to either smuggle stuff for them (like Hector is trying to do with Nacho's father) or threaten him for protection money or something, and when he refused they got rid of him. I realise this occurs before Mike finds out about Nacho's father, but I wouldn't put it past Mike to have figured out it must have been something relating to Hector given the guy was in the Navy and he disappeared without a trace, and knowing what type of power Hector wields in the area. That's my theory anyway.

Good episode though. Loved Jimmy's turn at the end. He's approaching his own breaking point and still wanted to knock Chuck down another peg.

mikeybrennan

I'm finding Jimmy's acting irritating,the love side doesn't work either.

I'm liking the drug side of the season better

NickNickleby

mikeybrennan wrote: »

Too much filler in these episodes

Jimmy selling the ads is pretty boring stuff

I'm actually enjoying this part. I'm pretty sure it'll be absolutely critical as part of Jimmy's transformation. Look what happened outside the music shop. He couldn't bring himself to take back the money from the young girl working for him. I think THAT's the point at which me makes a decision. No more Mr Nice Guy! Hence the subsequent visit to the insurance.

However, how does he survive for a year before he can become Saul Goodman the Criminal Lawyer (hahaha)?

Hector Savage

That was the worst episode of BCS so far - apart from Mike, Nacho and Baseball card guy it was pure filler.
I thought after Chuck Jimmy would have some spark back, but he's a miserable git and what was he playing at anyway with the insurance people ?
Oh yeah, and a love story for Mike ? really ?

rubadub

Executive producer Tom Schnauz, who wrote and directed Episode 7 of AMC?s Better Call Saul, discusses the difference between Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman, why Kim is haunted by what she did to Chuck, and what it?s like to see the softer side of Mike.

http://www.amc.com/shows/better-call-saul/talk/2017/05/better-call-saul-qa-tom-schnauz-executive-producer

jcsoulinger

Thought things would pick up after last week but they persist with the advertising story which is wearing very thin, the whole thing is ridiculous imo. It seems like there trying to draw out the story to serve a longer run of episodes, gonna lead to alot more episodes like this I fear.

jcsoulinger

De Bhál wrote: »

No, none of that occurred to me, she seemed genuine to me.

I thought he rang the capsule supplier directly after because he figured, he (the capsule supplier), like the woman's husband will also end up missing due to his lack of street smarts dealing with criminals, and in doing so leave loved ones behind that will never know what happened him. I reckoned Mike felt his conscience at him, so rang him offer help.

I could be way off though...


On a different note, as mentioned earlier, the whole Jimmy/Kim relationship is a bit strange. One of the driest couples on TV.

I felt like its leading to him helping her find out what happened to her husband, he asks nacho for one more thing before the end of the meeting is cut off, I assume it's related, unfortunately it just seems like another unnecessary tangent tbh.

The Jimmy and Kim thing is weird they lack any shred of chemistry and their interactions are so wooden, the scene in her office where he persuaded her to go for a drink was particularly awkward.

My name is URL

Jamiekelly wrote: »

His face during the conversation wasn't the typical "I'm sorry this happened to you" expression but more of a "questioning cop" one.

Does Mike have any other face?

jpm4

De Bhál wrote: »

I thought he rang the capsule supplier directly after because he figured, he (the capsule supplier), like the woman's husband will also end up missing due to his lack of street smarts dealing with criminals, and in doing so leave loved ones behind that will never know what happened him. I reckoned Mike felt his conscience at him, so rang him offer help.
.

Exactly how I took it....he didn't want another body on his conscience.

NickNickleby

jpm4 wrote: »

Exactly how I took it....he didn't want another body on his conscience.

Funnily enough, I thought Mike took it on because he actually likes Nacho and was probably interested to know what the plan is. With Mike's previous history with Hector, he probably figures that a botched assassination attempt would have far and wide ranging repercussions, perhaps even for Mike and the granddaughter.
Remember when Nacho wanted Tuco bumped off, Mike could have done it but advised against it. Probably as much self preservation in there as well. And now that Gus and the Cartel are known to be part of the picture, there's no hiding place if things go belly up.

I think.

Mr. Incognito

People really arent happy. They want things to blow up all the time.

That was an EXCELLENT episode that dealt with reading between the lines.

1. Mike had let Hector go at the request of Fring. He had put it behind him. When he was approached to do the job that dealt with Nacho he had turned it down. When the lady spoke about her husband disappearing he equated this to the driver getting shot and disappearing. He already knew that Nacho was doing jobs on the side against Hector so by helping Nacho he knew he would be hurting Hector. This tied in with him assisting Nacho by checking his fuel cap to see if Fring was watching Nacho (he doesnt want Fring to know he is helping Nacho as he promised to stay out of it) and also by advising him to replace the pills. That simple word of practical advice is what elevated this episode from brilliant to exceptional. Mike is already plotting with him and assisting him.

2. Jimmy's transformation is just as brilliant. When his livlihood is taken away and he is forced to suffer the indignity of Community service he reacted like a middle aged lawyer. "My Clients love me". His identity was that of a lawyer. This is being stripped away and he is becoming slipping Jimmy again. To the extent that he is prowling bars on the make for a scam. He is going back to what he knows to survive and the life that he left behind is beginning to reassert itself. The ultimate example of this is the end of the episode where he goes out of his way to ruin Charles who has taken his previous life away from him. This is also shown by moments of introspection in the episode. No more than when he was sitting on the kerb. He rejected the cue ladies money. That act of dignity shows that he is still good. Saul would have taken the money.

3. Finally, Kim is unravelling because she can see/ feel this transformation where Jimmy is sliding into his old ways. This strain is that they destroyed someone who upheld the law and knew Jimmys nature. She is eaten up with guilt and is begining to look at Jimmy in a new light. She would have met an ambitions Jimmy Hustle who bootstrapped his way through law school. Now she is witnessing the decline and Jimmy has a choice as to how he is going to face this hiatus. He could work as a paralegal but instead he is scheming.

I really loved that episode. I have no idea how people cannot see these things and describe it as "filler". They need to go watch the Kardashians or something equally vacous because this isnt the show for you.

gormdubhgorm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I really loved that episode. I have no idea how people cannot see these things and describe it as "filler".

Let's be honest it was filler, a little bit better then the last episode all the same.

Sometimes the search for nuances in this Vince Gilligan stuff can make people turn into those Arty Farty people on Sky Arts looking at a blank canvas with a dot in it and saying:

'I really like what you did there. Wonderfully minimalist, yet engaging and fully layered'

Everything you said in your previous post was a fairly obvious synopsis of this episode.

Nothing really groundbreaking there?

The fact is not all episodes in a series are going to be as good as the last.

There is bound to be some regression to the mean.

For me this episode was just A-Team without the guns at 'planning stage'

Mike is Hannibal without the cigar. :cool:

mikeybrennan

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

People really arent happy. They want things to blow up all the time.

That was an EXCELLENT episode that dealt with reading between the lines.

1. Mike had let Hector go at the request of Fring. He had put it behind him. When he was approached to do the job that dealt with Nacho he had turned it down. When the lady spoke about her husband disappearing he equated this to the driver getting shot and disappearing. He already knew that Nacho was doing jobs on the side against Hector so by helping Nacho he knew he would be hurting Hector. This tied in with him assisting Nacho by checking his fuel cap to see if Fring was watching Nacho (he doesnt want Fring to know he is helping Nacho as he promised to stay out of it) and also by advising him to replace the pills. That simple word of practical advice is what elevated this episode from brilliant to exceptional. Mike is already plotting with him and assisting him.

2. Jimmy's transformation is just as brilliant. When his livlihood is taken away and he is forced to suffer the indignity of Community service he reacted like a middle aged lawyer. "My Clients love me". His identity was that of a lawyer. This is being stripped away and he is becoming slipping Jimmy again. To the extent that he is prowling bars on the make for a scam. He is going back to what he knows to survive and the life that he left behind is beginning to reassert itself. The ultimate example of this is the end of the episode where he goes out of his way to ruin Charles who has taken his previous life away from him. This is also shown by moments of introspection in the episode. No more than when he was sitting on the kerb. He rejected the cue ladies money. That act of dignity shows that he is still good. Saul would have taken the money.

3. Finally, Kim is unravelling because she can see/ feel this transformation where Jimmy is sliding into his old ways. This strain is that they destroyed someone who upheld the law and knew Jimmys nature. She is eaten up with guilt and is begining to look at Jimmy in a new light. She would have met an ambitions Jimmy Hustle who bootstrapped his way through law school. Now she is witnessing the decline and Jimmy has a choice as to how he is going to face this hiatus. He could work as a paralegal but instead he is scheming.

I really loved that episode. I have no idea how people cannot see these things and describe it as "filler". They need to go watch the Kardashians or something equally vacous because this isnt the show for you.

I didnt think much of jimmys transformation

Thought the ad sales and the bar scam and the insurance was rubbish tbh

Tipsy McSwagger

Loving every minute of every episode.

_Kaiser_

I dunno.. I'm back to where I was last season.. it's a show of two halves and one side is significantly weaker than the other.

After a very strong episode with Jimmy/Chuck, it's slid back dramatically. We can already see how/why Jimmy becomes Saul and it feels like they're again dragging it out. Saul was comic relief and a guest star on BB and ultimately we're seeing that the character just isn't strong enough to carry an entire series IMO.

The "B story" with the "supporting cast" of Mike, Gus, Hector etc is the far more interesting one and the latest episode highlights this again in the same way as it did last season.

The other issue is that this show like The Sopranos, The Wire, The West Wing and even Breaking Bad has a "cult" status meaning that some will forgive a lot more because the consensus is that it is outstanding TV - look at the analysis above.. if you dont "get" the depth and whatever this isn't the show for you etc... when the reality is that there are significant pacing and character/plot issues hampering 50% of the show.

Yes overall it is very well written and the Mike/Gus storyline is consistently strong and gripping, but as I said last season, that's not a good thing when your title character is irrelevant to almost all of that.

gormdubhgorm

I think 'Better Call Saul' with Jimmy as the main focal point is turning out to be a bit flimsy.

'Kaylee's Pop-Pop' would have been a far better series.

Odenkirk's strength is comedy and Bank's strength is acting.

Unfortunately it is starting to really show who is the actor carrying the series, and who's story is the most interesting.

Deeper Blue

I'm a big fan of the show but the advertising storyline has to be the worst one they've done. For me it's absolute rubbish.

Also, are Jimmy and Kim an item or not? It hasn't been made clear unless I've missed something. They have absolutely zero chemistry though so not sure I could buy it anyway.

Cloudio9

Why is there a two week gap to next episode?

So much for on-demand tv.

Icemancometh

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Why is there a two week gap to next episode?

So much for on-demand tv.

I think next Monday is Memorial Day in the US. Wouldn't be unusual for shows to get moved on holidays, fewer people watching TV for one. It's on-demand over here, but in the States it's on AMC.

_Kaiser_

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think 'Better Call Saul' with Jimmy as the main focal point is turning out to be a bit flimsy.

'Kaylee's Pop-Pop' would have been a far better series.

Odenkirk's strength is comedy and Bank's strength is acting.

Unfortunately it is starting to really show who is the actor carrying the series, and who's story is the most interesting.

Yea that sums it up really. That's not a reflection on Odenkirk either. The character he's playing just isn't strong enough for anything more than the recurring part he played in BB.

If they'd focused on Mike as the lead from the start, it'd be a far better series and Jimmy/Saul could have had that recurring role and still be "fresh" enough to make it work.

NDWC wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the show but the advertising storyline has to be the worst one they've done. For me it's absolute rubbish.

Also, are Jimmy and Kim an item or not? It hasn't been made clear unless I've missed something. They have absolutely zero chemistry though so not sure I could buy it anyway.

So far as I'm aware, they're not an item. Kim has no romantic interest in the guy - I'm not sure if you could even class them as close friends TBH - and we are again back to where we were last year with her disapproving of who he really is.

De Bhál

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Yea that sums it up really. That's not a reflection on Odenkirk either. The character he's playing just isn't strong enough for anything more than the recurring part he played in BB.

If they'd focused on Mike as the lead from the start, it'd be a far better series and Jimmy/Saul could have had that recurring role and still be "fresh" enough to make it work.



So far as I'm aware, they're not an item. Kim has no romantic interest in the guy - I'm not sure if you could even class them as close friends TBH - and we are again back to where we were last year with her disapproving of who he really is.

Were they not showing getting ready for bed in the same bedroom a couple of episodes back?
I could be mistaken but that's how I remember it.

optogirl

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

So far as I'm aware, they're not an item. Kim has no romantic interest in the guy - I'm not sure if you could even class them as close friends TBH - and we are again back to where we were last year with her disapproving of who he really is.

I'm sure they are - there have definitely been scenes with them in the same bed etc but I agree there's no chemistry at all & it is difficult to see why she would hang around.

johnpatrick81

She's up to her eyeballs, Jimmy is just a convenience to her, they do seem more mates than lovers.

She's clearly getting cold feet though and will shortly distance herself.

They have a weird chemistry but I wouldn't say it's worthy of the criticism it gets. Why does everything have to be as it's "meant to be like"? I kinda enjoy their quirky thing.

optogirl

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

She's up to her eyeballs, Jimmy is just a convenience to her, they do seem more mates than lovers.

She's clearly getting cold feet though and will shortly distance herself.

They have a weird chemistry but I wouldn't say it's worthy of the criticism it gets. Why does everything have to be as it's "meant to be like"? I kinda enjoy their quirky thing.

I think it's more interest in what is keeping Kim so loyal. It's almost a naivety which is at odds with her professional life. There is definite love there but friends with benefits is probably an accurate description of their relationship. I like the dynamic - it keeps you wondering about where it will go.

johnpatrick81

Her speech in support of him at Chucks trial shows a lot of what she loves him for. Even though he did shaft Chuck and Howard he did it for her, so even though it may drive her away, it's also what draws her to him. He'd do anything for her.

Alan2016

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Her speech in support of him at Chucks trial shows a lot of what she loves him for. Even though he did shaft Chuck and Howard he did it for her, so even though it may drive her away, it's also what draws her to him. He'd do anything for her.

I believe that she is struggling inside. On one side, she cares for Jimmy and she knows that Jimmy changed 4261 to 4216 for her.

On the other side, she also believes that they hurt Chuck badly and thats something she s not proud of.

The situation is still evolving. It may explode during the season finale

De Bhál

Alan2016 wrote: »

I believe that she is struggling inside. On one side, she cares for Jimmy and she knows that Jimmy changed 4261 to 4216 for her.
e

4216? my god, you've got a bit of Chuck syndrome going on there

Alan2016

De Bhál wrote: »

4216? my god, you've got a bit of Chuck syndrome going on there

Oh my God , you re so right! Do you know where i can buy one of those anti-electromagnetic blankets?

serfboard

Alan2016 wrote: »

I believe that she is struggling inside. On one side, she cares for Jimmy and she knows that Jimmy changed 4261 to 4216 for her.

1216! 1216! The year after Magna Carta! (as Chuck says).

Do ye people watch the show at all at all?! :P