Annoyed with LBS

funnyclub

So approx 2 months ago I bought a 2nd hand bmc ssx01 from my LBS for 750 Euro to be fair the bike was like brand new even though it was 3 years old. I was told at the time there'd be cover on the bike.
Anyway when in both big rings the chain was rubbing off the front derailer and on the few occasion where I went onto the smaller front ring the chain came off. So driving home from a cycle I decided to drop the bike into a different bike shop that was closer to me to see if the front derailer needed adjustment. I got a call from the shop to say the front left lever was fecked and needed replacement. They had not done any work on it incase it was covered under warranty from the shop I bought it off.
So I collected the bike and dropped it to the shop I bought it off. On meeting the owner he said "oh they had issues with that lever"
So it was a Friday I dropped it off and I went on a week's holiday to Sligo where I didn't receive and call to say the bike was ready.
I rang today and he said we replaced that lever and to be aware that wouldn't normally be covered on a 3 year old bike but that they'd cover it and I'd just have to pay for the cable 5 or 10 Euro.
This has really annoyed as I paid 750 for a 3 year old bike due to the fact I was getting it from a bike shop and I'd expect to have some warranty. The other thing is I only had the bike less than 2 months and I rarely even used that lever which says to me it was like that leaving the shop. And finally he has the cheek to wanna charge me for one cable, 5 or 10 Euro well what does 1 gear cable from the left lever cost and since the lever is being changed under warranty why am I paying for a cable?

mathie

What cover were you told there would be?

Junior

Sorry, What ?

funnyclub

mathie wrote: »

What cover were you told there would be?

Wasn't told there was any specific cover just that the bike would have warranty.

funnyclub

Junior wrote: »

Sorry, What ?

Sorry just having a rant

godtabh

Why are you annoyed? The part was replaced wasn't it? With minimum fuss?

Trojan

Ask the owner to cover the cost of the replacement cable in order to maintain goodwill and your continued custom.

Harrybelafonte

Seriously?

funnyclub

godtabh wrote: »

Why are you annoyed? The part was replaced wasn't it? With minimum fuss?

Just because they couldn't be arsed letting me know the bike was repaired.
Because he's basically more or less saying I'm lucky to be having it replaced, and then wants to charge me for a small amount of cable.

I suppose I just expected a better level of customer service

jackstaff

A tenner. Feck that I'd get a solicitor

ZiabR

Would be a little annoyed myself alright. What warrenty did the LBS give you?

godtabh

funnyclub wrote: »

Just because they couldn't be arsed letting me know the bike was repaired.
Because he's basically more or less saying I'm lucky to be having it replaced, and then wants to charge me for a small amount of cable.

I suppose I just expected a better level of customer service

If it was me I'd have rang for an update. You aren't his only customer and things do slip.

BTW the cables are a ware and tear item. Wouldn't be covered under warranty.

07Lapierre

funnyclub wrote: »

So approx 2 months ago I bought a 2nd hand bmc ssx01 from my LBS for 750 Euro to be fair the bike was like brand new even though it was 3 years old. I was told at the time there'd be cover on the bike.
Anyway when in both big rings the chain was rubbing off the front derailer and on the few occasion where I went onto the smaller front ring the chain came off. So driving home from a cycle I decided to drop the bike into a different bike shop that was closer to me to see if the front derailer needed adjustment. I got a call from the shop to say the front left lever was fecked and needed replacement. They had not done any work on it incase it was covered under warranty from the shop I bought it off.
So I collected the bike and dropped it to the shop I bought it off. On meeting the owner he said "oh they had issues with that lever"
So it was a Friday I dropped it off and I went on a week's holiday to Sligo where I didn't receive and call to say the bike was ready.
I rang today and he said we replaced that lever and to be aware that wouldn't normally be covered on a 3 year old bike but that they'd cover it and I'd just have to pay for the cable 5 or 10 Euro.
This has really annoyed as I paid 750 for a 3 year old bike due to the fact I was getting it from a bike shop and I'd expect to have some warranty. The other thing is I only had the bike less than 2 months and I rarely even used that lever which says to me it was like that leaving the shop. And finally he has the cheek to wanna charge me for one cable, 5 or 10 Euro well what does 1 gear cable from the left lever cost and since the lever is being changed under warranty why am I paying for a cable?

I'd be more annoyed if they replaced the lever and DID NOT replace the worn cable.

funnyclub

godtabh wrote: »

If it was me I'd have rang for an update. You aren't his only customer and things do slip.

BTW the cables are a ware and tear item. Wouldn't be covered under warranty.

I had messaged him on their Facebook page which he mentioned when I rang today so yes I had contacted for an update.

Peterx

I think you did very well on the deal. A warranty on a 3 year old used bike that included a new shifter for free is excellent.
Why would you put the chainrings into big and big???
That wears out the chain prematurely and rubs on the derailleur.

funnyclub

Peterx wrote: »

I think you did very well on the deal. A warranty on a 3 year old used bike that included a new shifter for free is excellent.
Why would you put the chainrings into big and big???
That wears out the chain prematurely and rubs on the derailleur.

To be fair I've paid more than I would of got one private.

Also I'm a noob and wasn't aware doing that was an issue.

paulgs

The lbs has probably made little or nothing on the bike after repairing it for you.

RobFowl

Agree with others here and think you were extremely well looked after. Replacing a lever is a 50 to 200 euro job depending on brand/level.
Not changing the cable at the same time is considered poor practice and they are prone to wear and tear so would not be covered by warranty.

Brian?

You have nothing to be annoyed about. You were well looked after.

funnyclub

As it turns out the guy reckons the shifter will be replaced by manufacturer.

I also feel i only got what i was entitled to.

J Madone

funnyclub wrote: »

As it turns out the guy reckons the shifter will be replaced by manufacturer.

I also feel i only got what i was entitled to.

After 3 years I doubt it manufacturer will replace under warranty.

Thats certainly a sense of entitlement alright!

Cee-Jay-Cee

I think you done very well. They could have very easily refused to cover anything and made you pay for everything as it was 2 months later and they would have no idea what abuse/use the bike had got in that time. But he admitted the lever had been troublesome before (which he didn't have to do) and replaced it, yet you still begrudge him a few quid for the cable.

dragratchet

doesnt sound ya got too bad a deal there but i do sympathize with you not getting a call.. numerous shops have taken my number re a repair or a part coming in and i never get a call back on it.. fair enough these lads are busy.. in which case, just advise that the customer calls in a day or two for an update rather than promising a call.

AltAccount

Do you even know if you're being charged a fiver or a tenner?

Another +1 for you being looked after fairly well. Pay the pittance you're being charged and quit the griping imho.

funnyclub

AltAccount wrote: »

Do you even know if you're being charged a fiver or a tenner?

Another +1 for you being looked after fairly well. Pay the pittance you're being charged and quit the griping imho.

I paid a tenner in the end

Trojan

Seems I'm in the minority here, but speaking as a business owner I think the above is very bad practice.

They sold a second-hand bike for €750 Euro with a shop warranty. Several weeks later, a couple of related components needs replacement. They replace the expensive one for no charge, under warranty, but want to charge the customer for the replacement of what's a €3-5 trade cost component.

Effectively, they're saying that the customer caused the wear and tear on the gear cable, despite there being another issues, and that this isn't covered under their warranty, or the customer did not cause the wear and tear on the gear cable and they are happy to sell second-hand bikes with wear-and-tear components near failure without cover.

I believe that legally they might well be 100% correct and justified with either of those reasoning.

But from a customer service standpoint, this is suicide. They have nickel-and-dimed a customer who has a track record of spending significant amounts of money (and that's just on a second-hand purchase!), and they risk significant bad-will over what should be a ~€5 cost to them.

A satisfied long term customer raving about quality of service vs a dissatisfied customer bad mouthing the business and choosing to buy stuff on CRC, for want of a gear cable. Business 101.

wanderer 22

Trojan wrote: »

Seems I'm in the minority here, but speaking as a business owner I think the above is very bad practice.

They sold a second-hand bike for €750 Euro with a shop warranty. Several weeks later, a couple of related components needs replacement. They replace the expensive one for no charge, under warranty, but want to charge the customer for the replacement of what's a €3-5 trade cost component.

Effectively, they're saying that the customer caused the wear and tear on the gear cable, despite there being another issues, and that this isn't covered under their warranty, or the customer did not cause the wear and tear on the gear cable and they are happy to sell second-hand bikes with wear-and-tear components near failure without cover.

I believe that legally they might well be 100% correct and justified with either of those reasoning.

But from a customer service standpoint, this is suicide. They have nickel-and-dimed a customer who has a track record of spending significant amounts of money (and that's just on a second-hand purchase!), and they risk significant bad-will over what should be a ~€5 cost to them.

A satisfied long term customer raving about quality of service vs a dissatisfied customer bad mouthing the business and choosing to buy stuff on CRC, for want of a gear cable. Business 101.

I think that 'the customer is always right' mantra can be taken too far - op was treated very fairly imo.

happytramp

Well it seems a bit strange that the seller was aware of a fault with the shifter and didn't replace it before the sale or alert the buyer to the problem.

funnyclub

Trojan wrote: »

Seems I'm in the minority here, but speaking as a business owner I think the above is very bad practice.

They sold a second-hand bike for €750 Euro with a shop warranty. Several weeks later, a couple of related components needs replacement. They replace the expensive one for no charge, under warranty, but want to charge the customer for the replacement of what's a €3-5 trade cost component.

Effectively, they're saying that the customer caused the wear and tear on the gear cable, despite there being another issues, and that this isn't covered under their warranty, or the customer did not cause the wear and tear on the gear cable and they are happy to sell second-hand bikes with wear-and-tear components near failure without cover.

I believe that legally they might well be 100% correct and justified with either of those reasoning.

But from a customer service standpoint, this is suicide. They have nickel-and-dimed a customer who has a track record of spending significant amounts of money (and that's just on a second-hand purchase!), and they risk significant bad-will over what should be a ~€5 cost to them.

A satisfied long term customer raving about quality of service vs a dissatisfied customer bad mouthing the business and choosing to buy stuff on CRC, for want of a gear cable. Business 101.

That is spot on thank you for your reply.

When i initially bought the bike all be it from a member of his staff i was very happy with the service i received however once the deal was done and they had my deposit the same level of interest towards me dropped.
I was told the day i was collecting the bike to bring up my shoes, shorts etc for a bike fit. After the bikefit i went to the till to settle up i was then told the bikefit was an extra 60 euro. I was under the impression this was free of charge as there was no mention of a charge.

I cant see myself buying anything from them again.

funnyclub

colm18 wrote: »

I think that 'the customer is always right' mantra can be taken too far - op was treated very fairly imo.

His comment to me on collecting the bike was "you were unlucky in a sense the previous owner didnt use the bike enough to notice the faulty shifter but you did"

So the shifter was faulty not because of me so they will replace the shifter but not a cheap cable. Its not about the money its the principal.

Lumen

Whatever about the rights and wrongs, you are likely to be disappointed in future if your expectations remain high, because no bike shop I've ever used will give you better service than you've had in this case.

Maybe teach yourself to do your own maintenance.

CramCycle

My understanding is that it would be common practice for a bike shop to give the bike a once over in the first few months, sort out any kinks etc. This has always been FOC in any decent bike shop. The shifter would be covered under this but the cables would not, I would have and always have paid for cables and brake blocks with these services if needed.

kenmc

happytramp wrote: »

Well it seems a bit strange that the seller was aware of a fault with the shifter and didn't replace it before the sale or alert the buyer to the problem.

IIUC, the shifter is known to have a manufacturing fault, like some SRAM red(?) shifters a while back, and whilst they would not be replaced "just in case", they are covered under a recall in the event that they develop the fault, which is what sounds like happened here.

Without naming names, OP, which general area of the city or country is the bike shop located in?

TBH though, sounds to me like you got a fair deal. You bought a bike, didn't enquire as to the full extent of "the cover", misused the gears, and got a replacement shifter and cable for cost price of the cable. On a 3 year old bike!

strangel00p

funnyclub wrote: »

That is spot on thank you for your reply.

After the bikefit i went to the till to settle up i was then told the bikefit was an extra 60 euro. I was under the impression this was free of charge as there was no mention of a charge.

I cant see myself buying anything from them again.

60 bucks for a bike fit???? Really???? Sorry but if you bought a bike from a shop then that should be free.

There are a few bike shops in Dublin which are atrocious...one on Parnell street in particular, they excel at ripping off the customer and have truly terrible customer service.

In Dublin,there is only one bike shop I go to for repairs, purely because they have good customer service. In the past they have made some minor repairs to my bike for free, so that's where I will always spend my money.

el tel

Both big rings indeed.

nak

strangel00p wrote: »

60 bucks for a bike fit???? Really???? Sorry but if you bought a bike from a shop then that should be free.

In Dublin,there is only one bike shop I go to for repairs, purely because they have good customer service. In the past they have made some minor repairs to my bike for free, so that's where I will always spend my money.

Why do people expect certain things to be free? They are running a business not a charity. Depends what was involved in the bike fit, but some places charge €100+

07Lapierre

Trojan wrote: »

Seems I'm in the minority here, but speaking as a business owner I think the above is very bad practice.

They sold a second-hand bike for €750 Euro with a shop warranty. Several weeks later, a couple of related components needs replacement. They replace the expensive one for no charge, under warranty, but want to charge the customer for the replacement of what's a €3-5 trade cost component.

Effectively, they're saying that the customer caused the wear and tear on the gear cable, despite there being another issues, and that this isn't covered under their warranty, or the customer did not cause the wear and tear on the gear cable and they are happy to sell second-hand bikes with wear-and-tear components near failure without cover.

I believe that legally they might well be 100% correct and justified with either of those reasoning.

But from a customer service standpoint, this is suicide. They have nickel-and-dimed a customer who has a track record of spending significant amounts of money (and that's just on a second-hand purchase!), and they risk significant bad-will over what should be a ~€5 cost to them.

A satisfied long term customer raving about quality of service vs a dissatisfied customer bad mouthing the business and choosing to buy stuff on CRC, for want of a gear cable. Business 101.

I disagree with this. Replacing a shifter and re-using a worn cable would be very bad practice and no reputable bike shop would do that. Its a 3 year old bike.

lennymc

el tel wrote: »

Both big rings indeed.

Maybe I'm wrong but the OP couldn't go into the small ring as the chain was falling off?

funnyclub

nak wrote: »

Why do people expect certain things to be free? They are running a business not a charity. Depends what was involved in the bike fit, but some places charge €100+

I don't expect things for free but when there's no mention of a charge for it just a comment bring your shoes and shorts and we'll fit you up.

I was there for around 30mins as he was short on time.

funnyclub

lennymc wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong but the OP couldn't go into the small ring as the chain was falling off?

Correct and I wouldn't have been in it for long periods.

CramCycle

funnyclub wrote: »

I don't expect things for free but when there's no mention of a charge for it just a comment bring your shoes and shorts and we'll fit you up.

I was there for around 30mins as he was short on time.

Agree with you here, sounds like it was thrown in, I would have explained to the guy that you were under the impression it was included in the price as no one had mentioned it before.

Trojan

It's not about a €5 gear cable, or whether the customer isn't always right. It's about average customer lifetime value.

This customer is demonstrably a high spender - low value customers don't spend high 3 figures on a second hand bike, they buy a new entry level bike or worse, a supermarket BSO.

Here's a recent article from Forbes, and in a happy coincidence, written by a bike shop owner (partially quoted - see link for full article).

Chris Zane on Forbes wrote:

When at my company we started adjusting our thinking about our customers and began to consider the lifetime value of their business—our lifetime customer value number is $12,500, which will deliver $5,250 profit to our company—we became able to shift our thinking to what we were willing to spend to turn all those one-time purchases into lifetime customers.

Any business that isn’t thinking along these lines is simply playing the wrong game.

Granted, it’s not always easy to think this way; it’s only natural to push back from time to time when you feel a customer is asking for too much.

[...Anecdote about customer returning a tube he probably damaged...]

Chris Zane on Forbes wrote:

After the gentleman left, my employee asked why I had given in to a customer who was clearly trying to take advantage of us. I reminded the employee that the customer could come back in the next day and buy a $2,000 bike, and throughout his lifetime he could spend $12,500 at our shop. When you look at it that way, a $6 tube isn’t even worth a second thought.

Tropicana, one of our partners on the commercial side of our business, once said that the lifetime value of one of their customers is $32,500. They arrived at that figure by estimating that the average customer will buy somewhere in the neighborhood of 6,000 cartons of their juice over the customer’s lifetime. No wonder the company’s marketing efforts are focused on children.

The lifetime customer value to the owner of your neighborhood pizza joint is approximately $25,000. That’s a lot of pizza—and the sooner the owner realizes that his or her customers have more value than the $20 pepperoni special they just ordered, the more successful the owner can be.

That's why I think the shop owner in the OPs case made the wrong call to charge for the gear cable.

Brian?

If I was the local bike shop I would have hit you up for some bar tape as well. That'd learn you!

snollup

Seems i am alone in agreeing with the OP.

Re warranty, if the shop told the buyer (who sounds like a relatively inexperienced cyclist) that the bike is covered by a warranty i do not think it is unreasonable for him/her to assume that means the whole bike, cables included.

As for the bike itself. For such major parts to go in such a short amount of time I would ask if the bike was properly serviced before sale. As for the bike being cycled in the wrong gearing, I don't know if this would cause a problem over such a short period.

I must say that with two exception, one city center (recently changed hands) and one in Rathmines, I find the general level of service terrible in Dublin. Often it would seem the customer is an inconvenience to the guys in the shops.

seany15

snollup wrote: »

Often it would seem the customer is an inconvenience to the guys in the shops.

The owner of the LBS that sponsors my club has as much as said that in the past. So much to the point most of the club don't go there for bits and pieces at all any more. One of the lads has just dropped €2k on a brand new cf Thompson with her and she still persistently gives out to the guys in the shop if any of us are in talking about the club/buying things.

The customer is always right may be dead, but in this case the owner seems to think the customer is always a dickhead.

snollup

seany15 wrote: »

The owner of the LBS that sponsors my club has as much as said that in the past. So much to the point most of the club don't go there for bits and pieces at all any more. One of the lads has just dropped €2k on a brand new cf Thompson with her and she still persistently gives out to the guys in the shop if any of us are in talking about the club/buying things.

The customer is always right may be dead, but in this case the owner seems to think the customer is always a dickhead.

The one advantage they have over online & so many just disregard it.

That said, the two that I mentioned (well, nearly mentioned) are absolutely superb and cannot do enough for customers.

CramCycle

snollup wrote: »

I must say that with two exception, one city center (recently changed hands) and one in Rathmines, I find the general level of service terrible in Dublin. Often it would seem the customer is an inconvenience to the guys in the shops.

The one in Rathmines has been a favourite of mine for years and have always looked after me, oddly enough while I buy a good few things in there, I generally find them to be on par with online and in the case of my last Cateye lights, a damn sight cheaper. When I mentioned I was going for an overnight ride in the Netherlands, the owner lent me a spare battery pack for the light he knew I bought from him almost a year earlier.

There was one on the quays though that I only frequented once, I was about to drop some cash on a pricey frame when I heard them laughing at a customer, and openly talking about how they were going to fleece them. Glad to see the place gone to be honest.

there are far more than two great bike shops in Dublin but I imagine that the level of poor service bike shops is about 50:50.

snollup

CramCycle wrote: »

There was one on the quays though that I only frequented once, I was about to drop some cash on a pricey frame when I heard them laughing at a customer, and openly talking about how they were going to fleece them. Glad to see the place gone to be honest.

Oh, I think we all remember that one! In fairness, they were great for lending you their track pump :pac::pac::pac:

funnyclub

Well to be honest I had made my mind up not to use them for my bike upgrade even before this I only brought the bike back to them as it had warranty.

I have already ordered a new bike costing me 2700 Euro from another bike shop.
Not only did they lose out on this sale but I'm sure it's not the last bit of bike equipment I'll buy which they have also missed out on.

fixie fox

Lots of opinion in this thread but I don't think anybody referred to the actual law and consumer rights (apologies if I missed any). A but of informed opinion on this would help. This is a basic start - http://www.consumerhelp.ie/buying-goods

funnyclub

fixie fox wrote: »

Lots of opinion in this thread but I don't think anybody referred to the actual law and consumer rights (apologies if I missed any). A but of informed opinion on this would help. This is a basic start - http://www.consumerhelp.ie/buying-goods

I'm amazed with the people saying I did well getting the shifter replaced.

Would I be right in saying they'd be cool with paying for the shifter them selves if 2 months previous they'd bought their 1st bike all be it a 2nd hand for 750 Euro and they'd been told they had warranty?