inhaler/drugs rip off

ActingDanClark

Went to late opening pharmacy locally to buy an inhaler for my daughter. €87.75 says the pharmacist. No, I suggest- last one I bought was around e60. If you can show me ac receipt for that I'll sell t to you for that price says your man.
Bought it next morning in my local Sam Mc cauley for €61.50.
Take a bow- Sam Mc Cauley!

L1011

Late opening pharmacies usually charge far higher prices for staff costs, mainly security but also the pharmacist and sales staff will be on more. There's a reason we've no 24 hour pharmacies anymore, and its specifically the risks and hence costs of security.

If you don't need something in a hurry, a large chain pharmacy will almost always be cheaper, usually by a fairly strong percentage.

ActingDanClark

This was 8pm though, and blatant profiteering of almost 50%, which he readily admitted by virtue of his willingness to forego e26 markup were I able to supply a receipt for the lower amount.
I'd have no problem with a markup recognising the factors you mention, 10% perhaps, 50 is unpalatable

L1011

50% was the normal markup everywhere until a few years back. It's now 20 in most pharmacies, but not all and some chains are even cheaper.

ActingDanClark

MYOB wrote: »

Late opening pharmacies usually charge far higher prices for staff costs, mainly security but also the pharmacist and sales staff will be on more. There's a reason we've no 24 hour pharmacies anymore, and its specifically the risks and hence costs of security.

If you don't need something in a hurry, a large chain pharmacy will almost always be cheaper, usually by a fairly strong percentage.

That's outrageous bearing in mind that Mc cauleys are still making a profit at e61

tayto lover

Go North Damien, go North. You will save a fortune.

ActingDanClark

I was aware of the discrepancy there yeah but there are obviously costs involved. There's only a few km between the pharmacies I'm referring to. Incidentally the expensive pharmacy is part of a group boasting ( I would imagine) many times more outlets than Mc caulets, so purchasing power is not a factor here, at least not in MY favour

quadrifoglio verde

Shock horror, one business charges more than another.
I don't know any business, except for those in cartels that charge the same

ActingDanClark

Your stunning incisiveness is much appreciated. Perhaps you might have taken time to note that this is the " rip off ireland forum" before commenting, and this is VERY MUCH a rip off situation when the mug/ customer is unaware of the cost of the item until the very last moment and the goods are packaged. Pubs are legally obliged to display prices , why shouldn't pharmacies?

L1011

It'd be impossible - there's about 16000 potential prescription items and the price varies depending on how many items/months you're buying at once in a non-linear manner.

They could be asked to show their markup formula but even then, certain items are sold below that formula in some cases. I'm aware of a pharmacy who charges no markup and a tiny fee on lipitor as its the single drug that the local newspaper to him always ask for when doing price comparisons. He charges rather a lot more markup and fees on everything else!

They can and will tell you the price before dispensing, you just need to ask.

ActingDanClark

Noted. As in all purchases people should ordinarily vote with their feet, and my original point was that based on my experience I felt compelled to compliment Mc cauleys .

rubadub

MYOB wrote: »

They can and will tell you the price before dispensing, you just need to ask.

You can email in advance these days too, most have sites or at least contact emails on very basic sites.

keithclancy

damian139 wrote: »

Your stunning incisiveness is much appreciated. Perhaps you might have taken time to note that this is the " rip off ireland forum" before commenting, and this is VERY MUCH a rip off situation when the mug/ customer is unaware of the cost of the item until the very last moment and the goods are packaged. Pubs are legally obliged to display prices , why shouldn't pharmacies?

That's a good point, there should be a HSE run website showing all prices for prescriptions.

It's difficult enough to go to a pharmacy if you are really ill let alone shop around for a better price.

Clear and transparent pricing would make a lot more sense.

L1011

keithclancy wrote: »

That's a good point, there should be a HSE run website showing all prices for prescriptions.

It's difficult enough to go to a pharmacy if you are really ill let alone shop around for a better price.

Clear and transparent pricing would make a lot more sense.

The HSE doesn't know what private businesses are going to charge.

What we have currently is a competitive market - and that results, like all competitive markets, in people with no competition charging more. The other option is a cartel which would cause even more complaints.

rubadub

There is a trade magazine/booklet called MIMS which has the prices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMS_Ireland or at least used to. Think it was RRP prices, must be 20 years since I last saw one.

It would be nice to at least know the RRPs

L1011

rubadub wrote: »

There is a trade magazine/booklet called MIMS which has the prices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIMS_Ireland or at least used to. Think it was RRP prices, must be 20 years since I last saw one.

It would be nice to at least know the RRPs

They're the GMS reimbursement prices. They're available somewhere in the bowels of the HSE PCRS website, or were.

You can figure out the likely highest price anywhere from that price by (price+50%+€7(+21% if not oral route)) but that's a very rare pricing structure these days.

Not every product is even available on the GMS and a small amount are actually loss making on the GMS so the private price will be higher in those cases.

countrynosebag

When I was nursing in England most nurses had a a mims, and, a BNS British national formulary.
I had both and when gp was fumbling around trying to think of my drugs I mentioned these, I had given away because of retirement. I told pharmacy and they gave him a copy, I should have thought all gp's had these yearly (for updates) side effects, prices, dosages...all placed in groups of types of drugs. There are too many to remember of course.
Also, regarding asthma and inhaler costs... I would like to know why this is not listed as essential and permanent, life threatening disease and therefore counted as essential medication as with the epileptics etc. Does anyone know?

quadrifoglio verde

countrynosebag wrote: »

When I was nursing in England most nurses had a a mims, and, a BNS British national formulary.
I had both and when gp was fumbling around trying to think of my drugs I mentioned these, I had given away because of retirement. I told pharmacy and they gave him a copy, I should have thought all gp's had these yearly (for updates) side effects, prices, dosages...all placed in groups of types of drugs. There are too many to remember of course.
Also, regarding asthma and inhaler costs... I would like to know why this is not listed as essential and permanent, life threatening disease and therefore counted as essential medication as with the epileptics etc. Does anyone know?

As on the lti scheme?
Because that would cost the hse even more money and in order to fund it, the money would have to come from somewhere else

countrynosebag

There is a lot of money wasted in the HSE and this has still not been dealt with.
I would rather costs for those with these permanent conditions be alleviated. Most have other conditions too (side effects of drugs, complications arising from condition (s) and these are not widely recognised and accounted for).
Also quite a few are elderly and or disabled and so monies are severely curtailed for most. Often medications are taken less frequently than prescribed to keep costs down and this does not help their conditions to have reasonable control and also safety is jeopardised.
There are a lot of rural dwellers. Buses are stopped completely in so many places and some are so isolated it adds to the stress and exacerbates conditions. Many are unable to afford or allowed licences to drive, due to conditions, (and could not afford a means of transport anyway) and so have no means of travel except the community bus service which is hard to acquire and sporadic. Choices are, by necessity, limited and strictly ordered by place and times designated by others which are not always convenient to say the least.

keithclancy

MYOB wrote: »

The HSE doesn't know what private businesses are going to charge.

What we have currently is a competitive market - and that results, like all competitive markets, in people with no competition charging more. The other option is a cartel which would cause even more complaints.

It works perfectly well and is possible here:
https://www.medicijnkosten.nl/

Price is negotiated by the Government and a fixed profit incorporated.

Only non prescription drugs are on the 'free' market.

Riesen_Meal

Spain is dirt cheap for these inhalers if you know anyone visiting soon....

My mam picks up loads for her friends every year going over, and gets me lots of Difene and Tylex for my bad back, price of drugs here is insane....

L1011

keithclancy wrote: »

It works perfectly well and is possible here:
https://www.medicijnkosten.nl/

Price is negotiated by the Government and a fixed profit incorporated.

Only non prescription drugs are on the 'free' market.

It works because its an entirely different system which we don't have anything similar to here; so its not a particularly useful comparison.

Also, there's many rural areas in Ireland which wouldn't have pharmacies if a fixed profit margin was set; generally anywhere which got a pharmacy for the first time in the past decade. Most of those are marginal enough on the huge markup that was deemed normal til a few years ago due to extremely low volumes. If everything was changed and a similar system was brought in it'd last a few weeks until some rural TDs started complaining.

nunn351

i bought one in eastern europe this summer for a fiver

keithclancy

MYOB wrote: »

It works because its an entirely different system which we don't have anything similar to here; so its not a particularly useful comparison.

Also, there's many rural areas in Ireland which wouldn't have pharmacies if a fixed profit margin was set; generally anywhere which got a pharmacy for the first time in the past decade. Most of those are marginal enough on the huge markup that was deemed normal til a few years ago due to extremely low volumes. If everything was changed and a similar system was brought in it'd last a few weeks until some rural TDs started complaining.

I don't see how that's different, there are rural areas in Limburg, Brabant, Zeeland and up in Friesland also.

Drugs that people need to live or get well shouldn't be subject to the whim of supply and demand, it should be universally available for everyone at the same direct cost, that's the idea of a socialised healthcare system.

Offer a subsidy to run it, but it's ridiculous to have drugs you purchase yourself with a poorly negotiated cost, an unregulated profit margin and you also have to purchase them yourself unless you are on the drug payment scheme (up to a limited amount) or medical card

You could have a village here with a few thousand people here and they have a pharmacy that sells medication for the same price as a pharmacy in central Amsterdam.

I find it bizarre these days when I hear about Irish people going on about the cheapest place to buy tablets, it used to be people went to the Canaries to buy cheap cigarettes, now they go on about how cheap tablets, cremes and inhalers are there.

The Irish System has been completely broken for years, even before it was jammed together from what were the healthboards into the HSE.

L1011

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't see how that's different, there are rural areas in Limburg, Brabant, Zeeland and up in Friesland also.

Nowhere in the Netherlands comes close in comparison to the western seaboard here. Your constant attempts to force comparisons where none can be made here are getting tiring.

keithclancy wrote: »

You could have a village here with a few thousand people here and they have a pharmacy that sells medication for the same price as a pharmacy in central Amsterdam.

In Ireland, somewhere with a few thousand people would be called a town - that you think they can be compared to an Irish village is another sign that you've been trying to force comparisons with the Netherlands for too long. Towns have that scale would have pharmacies, multiple; including probably a branch of a chain pharmacy with standardised pricing.

What we've had in the past decade are isolated villages with hundreds of people, under 200 in some cases, getting pharmacies for the first time.



When we had regulation people screamed about cartels, now that competition is causing prices to drop significantly in areas where there is competition we've people screaming for regulation.

countrynosebag

We do try and support local business but they do have to support us too!
Competition in a few areas has hit some hard and relieved a huge burden from those with money that simply will not stretch for any single expense not considered vital, even then it is juggling each week to get things done in some sort of order. Anything but bare necessities has to be left out now.
I am not suggesting 2 pharmacies in a small village but if there was a bus for the elderly and disabled then money would stretch to get a little more in the basket from a place with more than one store.

keithclancy

MYOB wrote: »

Nowhere in the Netherlands comes close in comparison to the western seaboard here. Your constant attempts to force comparisons where none can be made here are getting tiring.

Maybe you don't know this but in the Netherlands the designation of City or Village has no bearing on the population size, you can have a small gathering of a few houses that are isolated miles from anywhere but would sit in a municipality for Administrative purposes.

You have large areas that are called Villages, e.g. The Hague.

In Ireland, somewhere with a few thousand people would be called a town - that you think they can be compared to an Irish village is another sign that you've been trying to force comparisons with the Netherlands for too long. Towns have that scale would have pharmacies, multiple; including probably a branch of a chain pharmacy with standardised pricing.

What we've had in the past decade are isolated villages with hundreds of people, under 200 in some cases, getting pharmacies for the first time.

When we had regulation people screamed about cartels, now that competition is causing prices to drop significantly in areas where there is competition we've people screaming for regulation.

The population density is highest in the Randstad and much much lower in The south and the north.

Similarly the Population density in Ireland is mostly concentrated in Dublin and the surrounding areas.

The main difference is that administratively the towns and villages are split up from each other whereas here they just increased the size of the municipality to incorporate the smaller town/village

In any case, my view is that the current setup in Ireland is broken

In Ireland they tend to forget about rural areas until they want to build a motorway through it or have commuter towns for industrial areas. i.e. until it suits them.

A single tier system with uniform pricing across the country for medication would be a lot more fair for people in the long run.

I believe the Irish Government is doing this in a phased approach anyway right ?

http://inmo.ie/tempDocs/DutchHealth_PAGE28-29apr14.pdf

Please share if you have a better idea, the current system doesn't work, you say this way won't work.

quadrifoglio verde

nunn351 wrote: »

i bought one in eastern europe this summer for a fiver

Which one though. Ventolin/salbutamol is around 9 euro in pharmacy in ireland. When you compare the wages of Eastern Europe to here, it's going to be higher here

Patrickglen

Ventolin inhaler is €2-95 in Heatwave, Sandyford Road, Dundrum.
Google Heatwave.ie for price list and membership details/registration of €25 per annum. They can post free of charge [4 times a year]
Ventolin is slightly cheaper in N.I.
Boots 75 mg aspirin €2-11 in N.I..
An OAP can travel free to Newry etc. and get their[others?] Irish prescription filled.
One problem though, some items are not stocked in N.I. and some are in limited supply, so enquire beforehand.