Daunting Firsts

Hotblack Desiato

gerrowadat wrote: »

That was one thing my pre-test lad said that the IBT chap never did. Back brake only below 50kph or at slow street speeds.

50!?!?!? that's nuts. Stopping distance at 50km/h with back brake only would be crazy.

10km/h would be more like it.

Cienciano

Putting your foot down is ok as far as I remember.

Pugzilla

gerrowadat wrote: »

Back brake only below 50kph.

Not a good idea. You should use the front brake all the time except in slow maneuvers. Easy to lock up the rear wheel in an emergency stop.

If you need to stop fast, then use the the front brake.

Cienciano

I pretty much never use the back brake. Probably touched the pedal twice in 18 months!
Always use clutch control at slow speed, on the GS it was way easier. Not as easy on the Ducati, but still easier than the back brake

Wonda-Boy

Bike will be alot smoother using the back brake over the clutch, especially for learning.

Paulw

According to the RSA, in the dry you should use 70% front to 30% rear. In the wet, 50:50. Of course, in slow moving traffic, using just the rear is fine and works well.

But, with the GS, when you use the front brake, most of the time, the nose dives. More to do with the front suspension than just the braking. Very soft front suspension.

Most of the time, I use the rear, and a little front. Of course, for emergency braking, which I have not had to do a lot of, thankfully, it's mostly front with some rear.

Pugzilla

If you're accustomed to using the rear brake more than the front, chances are you'll do the same in an emergency where your braking is based on muscle memory rather than conscious decision making.

Hotblack Desiato

Cienciano wrote: »

I pretty much never use the back brake. Probably touched the pedal twice in 18 months!

In fairness there's not much point when the back wheel is in the air

Paulw wrote: »

According to the RSA, in the dry you should use 70% front to 30% rear. In the wet, 50:50. Of course, in slow moving traffic, using just the rear is fine and works well.

I talked over this at length with my instructor friend a good ten years ago, it is misleading as it might make people think they can use more rear brake in the wet than in the dry!

Of course you have less grip at BOTH ends, but overdoing it with the front brake is more catastrophic, so the "50:50 in the wet" mantra is designed to make riders fear the front brake in the wet. I don't buy it though.

Tyres are getting better all the time, noticeably better for road riders every 3 years or so, compared to when I started 20 years ago it's like night and day, today's boring long-life touring tyres are better than the out and out sports tyres of 10 or 15 years ago.

I would also argue that well maintained front brakes have good feel and it's easier for a rider to use the available braking power without overdoing it. Compared to a lot of rear brakes with little feel, and it's your foot operating it, it's got to be easier to accidentally overdo it.

I know I've several crashes due to locking up the rear, none due to locking up the front!

Yet riders are practically taught to fear the front brake.

Anyway what my instructor agreed with me was 80:20 front:rear in the dry - 40:15 or maybe 30:10 in the wet. Yes they don't add up to 100. That's the point. There is less braking power available.

But, with the GS, when you use the front brake, most of the time, the nose dives. More to do with the front suspension than just the braking. Very soft front suspension.

They actually designed it to have dive so that riders used to telescopic fork suspension wouldn't freak out and think the brakes weren't working. They could just as easily have designed the telelever front end to have no dive at all.

Edited to add: I actually own a bike which had "anti-dive" in its early 80s versions, thankfully not by the 1990 model as it was a plumbing and maintenance nightmare and didn't work well anyway. By the end of the 80s the Japanese factories had discovered the meaning of the word damping :rolleyes: if the suspension is designed properly it doesn't need gimmicks like anti-dive (or, indeed, telelever ) to work well.

Richard tea

I dont use brakes. Mods you may close this thread:p

Paulw

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I know I've several crashes due to locking up the rear, none due to locking up the front!

Yet riders are practically taught to fear the front brake.

Easy to find Youtube video clips of crashes due to people locking up the front.

I don't think people are taught to fear the front brake. I was taught how to use it on my IBT, but also taught that for best emergency braking, you should use both back and front. I was shown how to use just back brake, just front brake and then combined front and back.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They actually designed it to have dive so that riders used to telescopic fork suspension wouldn't freak out and think the brakes weren't working. They could just as easily have designed the telelever front end to have no dive at all.

Actually, I thought it was more to do with off-road riding and suspension, rather than anything to do with braking.

It's an interesting discussion and topic though. Respect the brakes and just use them properly, with the right pressure, in the right situations.

prunudo

I didn't know that's the way the suspension on the gs worked, every day is a school day. Is it like that on all bmw's?

Pugzilla

You're more likely to crash by not using the front brake rather than locking it up.
It takes much further to stop at anything above walking speed if you're mainly using the rear brake.

gerrowadat

jvan wrote: »

I didn't know that's the way the suspension on the gs worked, every day is a school day. Is it like that on all bmw's?

Not all BMWs, just the ones with telelever. It is a bit mad coming off another bike, you grab a load of front brake and the bike just slows down.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Really enjoyed reading this PaulW.

I'm about three months into learning. Did the IBT and bought the bike soon after in July. Been commuting through City Centre daily since. Absolutely loving it and hoping to book the test soon

TeaBagMania

Yes it’s a good thread indeed.

Paul, your Beemer should be the same as mine with linked brakes so if you grab front brakes the abs pump applies appropriate pressure to the rear.

As far as this front brake talk, everyone should know their machines well enough to judge how much pressure to apply, whether in slow speed maneuvers or pulling down from high speed

Paulw

Well, I thought I might as well update the thread.

Today I passed my test!!!

Now to fill in the form, and send off for the full license. I will also have a well used L-vest, should anyone want it?

See you on the roads boys.

Lumen

Paulw wrote: »

I will also have a well used L-vest, should anyone want it?

Yes please!

...and well done :-)

gerrowadat

Job. Seeya on the road!

TeaBagMania

Nice one Paul, so how about some details, how was the road test, did the examiner follow you in a car or did he have a bike, issues?

Congrats!!!

Paulw

TeaBagMania wrote: »

so how about some details, how was the road test, did the examiner follow you in a car or did he have a bike, issues?

The weather was a bit hit and miss. Some rain at the start. The riding was fairly short, about 30 min on the road. I did the test in Finglas. Tester was in a car. Initial checks of the bike, and he asked about checking tyres and checking oil and front brake fluid.

Route was fine. Got a few marks - observation on turn (one left turn, one right turn), and my slow ride was a little faster than he liked. Otherwise, he said my control was good. No problems with u-turn.

Personally, I felt that my normal riding is more relaxed and better. I guess it was the pressure of someone watching you so closely. But, no major hiccups. No cutting corners, no clipping kerbs or anything. The ride home after was a lot more relaxed.

Glad I don't have to do it again. I nearly expected that I would have to.

GrumpyMe

Paulw wrote: »

...Glad I don't have to do it again. I nearly expected that I would have to...

Actually you are supposed to do it each time you go out - you just don't have an allocated stalker following you...:D

Pugzilla

How did you handle having the examiner as a pillion?

Paulw

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Actually you are supposed to do it each time you go out - you just don't have an allocated stalker following you...:D

I feel I do it better without the stalker. I think the stalker pressure makes you overthink and overreact on things. I tend to take things handy enough normally.

landmarkjohn

gerrowadat wrote: »

My daunting first recently was laying the GS down in a car park. Zero damage thankfully :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-U4St9RtGo

LOL, did this myself the other day on VFR at home, drove up to the garage door, thought I put down side stand and ended up rolling around the lawn 1998 bike so I didn't get over excited about the damage, just a quick 360 scan to see if anyone spotted me and then wondered "how the fk did I manage that"?