NPPR has not been declared

Arbiter of Good Taste

garhjw wrote: »

based on my previous experience with questions on the household charge, I think 2 weeks is optimistic. I was waiting almost 6 week earlier thus year!

:eek::eek::eek:

Arbiter of Good Taste

garhjw wrote: »

based on my previous experience with questions on the household charge, I think 2 weeks is optimistic. I was waiting almost 6 week earlier thus year!

In case anyone is still interested, I got a response from NPPR today (3 months after the original email). "Hurrah" you say? Not so fast.....The just emailed me to say:

"Please note we have received your email, however due to the large volume of enquiries there is a backlog. Your query will be dealt with in due course and as speedily as possible. It would be very much appreciated if you did not send any further emails unless requested by this office as this may delay the process of clearing the backlog".

Seriously? It's been three months already

ABajaninCork

lifestooshort wrote: »

But it may be of help to all the emigrants who lost their jobs and are trying to make a living for themselves in UK, Canada, Australia, Dubai etc and cannot afford to come home until 15 to 20 years time. I don't know how revenue can chase them outside of the Irish jurisdiction and at least its one less charge for them to worry about when they do return to retire?

Doesn't the LA have the authority to attach a charge to the property?

hfallada

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

That is the view I took because to me it is very clear from the legislation that you look at the position at 31 March 2013. I emailed DCC to confirm and I got an automated response telling me that they are busy and will reply in 2 weeks!!!!:eek:

Not good enough.

Most state bodies aim to get to you within 2 weeks. Its the norm in them. Like Dublin bus usually takes 2 weeks to get a response

Arbiter of Good Taste

hfallada wrote: »

Most state bodies aim to get to you within 2 weeks. Its the norm in them. Like Dublin bus usually takes 2 weeks to get a response

But three months just to say they will get back to me at some point?

garhjw

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

But three months just to say they will get back to me at some point?

I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.

Arbiter of Good Taste

garhjw wrote: »

I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.

Colleague of mine got a demand for €7,0000 for a property she didn't own at the time NPPR applied

garhjw

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Colleague of mine got a demand for €7,0000 for a property she didn't own at the time NPPR applied

I have heard a couple of similar stories. I get the impression they just sent letters hoping to get people as opposed to actually knowing what they were doing. Didn't give a sh*t about the stress and worry this could cause people.

Daintydoll1

garhjw wrote: »

I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.

Would anyone have any idea how I could find out about any such challenges?
I was subject to total backlog + fine 4220, had been mistakenly advised by an accountant that I was not liable for the charge as it was the only property I owned.
I know it's self assessment + my hard luck, and to be fair I don't mind paying the 5 yrs owed + some element of a fine (even 100%fine) but i do feel the fine of 3220 is punitive and unfair. I have had to enter a payment arrangement over 2.5 years as couldn't afford to pay any other way.
Having spoken to a solicitor and (new!) accountant they both say once there's one challenge the floodgates will open. They actually felt the LAs wouldn't let challenge go to court for fear they'd lose!
If anyone could shed light on how I could find out about challenges/ proposed challenges I'd be very grateful

Arbiter of Good Taste

Daintydoll1 wrote: »

Would anyone have any idea how I could find out about any such challenges?
I was subject to total backlog + fine 4220, had been mistakenly advised by an accountant that I was not liable for the charge as it was the only property I owned.
I know it's self assessment + my hard luck, and to be fair I don't mind paying the 5 yrs owed + some element of a fine (even 100%fine) but i do feel the fine of 3220 is punitive and unfair. I have had to enter a payment arrangement over 2.5 years as couldn't afford to pay any other way.
Having spoken to a solicitor and (new!) accountant they both say once there's one challenge the floodgates will open. They actually felt the LAs wouldn't let challenge go to court for fear they'd lose!
If anyone could shed light on how I could find out about challenges/ proposed challenges I'd be very grateful

What did your engagement letter with your old accountant say. I would be looking for compensation for his wrong advice

Daintydoll1

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

What did your engagement letter with your old accountant say. I would be looking for compensation for his wrong advice

The advice re nppr was verbal unfortunately so no recourse there...he brought it up when I was settling that years revenue bill, established that I owned no other property in Ireland + told me I had no liability.
Like I say, I accept it was my responsibility + error but a fine of 3.2k on a bill of 1k is astronomical and tbh causing a lot of financial pressure on me...it's completely wiping me out. I rang LA to see if I could appeal the fine and was told no, as nppr doesn't exist anymore there's no way to appeal it/ no dept dealing with it.
So I'd be interested to know of any challenges + how people are challenging it.

Sadler32

This has been a nightmare for me.
I bought my house in 2009. Its the only house I own and is my primary residence. Recently I decided to sell it as I am moving away.
That was fine until I was told by my solicitor that I required an NPPR exemption certificate.
Then the "fun" began.
How do you get a certificate? Well first I rang the council and they said to submit electricity bills and that would be enough. I did and got an email from them saying the bills were too low and it couldnt be my primary residence. I work away and lived on my own, I also conserve energy when I can, so my bills will always be lower then the average.
Anyway it took nearly 2 months for them to believe it was my primary residence. I ended up sending them bank statements (without the financials or account number), car tax records, car insurance records, every bill i ever got, tv licenses.
Eventually I got it sorted, so cant imagine how people would deal with it if it is their second or 3rd house.

Also what happens when people get married, and now the couple technically own 2 houses?????

Arbiter of Good Taste

Daintydoll1 wrote: »

The advice re nppr was verbal unfortunately so no recourse there...he brought it up when I was settling that years revenue bill, established that I owned no other property in Ireland + told me I had no liability.
Like I say, I accept it was my responsibility + error but a fine of 3.2k on a bill of 1k is astronomical and tbh causing a lot of financial pressure on me...it's completely wiping me out. I rang LA to see if I could appeal the fine and was told no, as nppr doesn't exist anymore there's no way to appeal it/ no dept dealing with it.
So I'd be interested to know of any challenges + how people are challenging it.

The other side of the coin is, if the department doesn't exist, then how can they enforce.

Unfortunately according to the letter of the law you are liable. I really feel for you as you had the good sense to have an accountant and look where it got you. Seriously, I would make an appointment with a solicitor and see if you gave any comeback.

MouseTail

I would seek legal advice too daintydoll, that is some shoddy accountant that did not know something so basic, if he prepared your return, and was aware of the facts of your case, he was negligent. Did you contact LA before deadline, as that froze the penalties?

Daintydoll1

Yeah I contacted them just to ensure I was compliant because as the nppr deadline approached and it was getting more airtime I began to doubt the accountants advice. So I am "fortunate" that my fine was 3.2k...had I waited it out the fine would now be 6k ish. On top of the 4or 5 years liability.
I'm really kicking myself that I took the accountants word for it at the time + didn't get his confirmation in writing. Without that from a legal perspective it's his word against mine really. An expensive lesson to learn.

Sadler32

On a slightly different note, it is worth check everything accountants tell you.
I am self assessed.
As I am not an accountant, I employed an accountant to do my returns. Everything was fine until one day I got a letter from revenue about something. I rang my accountant, but he was away and I couldnt get hold of him.
So I rang revenue, and found out that there was no accountant attached to my account, but checked and everything was up to date. Strange, but from then on I kept a close eye on things...
Anyway I decided that filing my tax return myself wasnt that difficult, as I knew the ins and outs by now, the only thing I didnt do was file it.
So I went to file online, and I couldnt quite get their auto fill to match my calculations, so I rang revenue. They were very helpful, and said they would send me out the previous years return. They thought it was strange I didnt have it on file. When I said my accountant does it, the same response of " There is no accountant attached to this file". Strange....
Anyway when the previous years return, arrived, everything made sense. And it turned out that the accoountant had been filling the return as me, forgeing my signature instead of filling out the part of the form as a "fileing accountant".

The guy I used was well respected, well known and cost alot. So my advice is to question everything and get written proof of everything. Doesnt matter who they are.....

The_Conductor

I had a similar experience with a local accountant- not in regard the NPPR- but with respect of income which should have been tax free (forestry grants) that the accountant consistently over a 5 year period declared as taxable income at the marginal rate on my tax return. Revenue would only revisit 4 years- so I was down about 6k. The accountant- well his comment was 'I'm an accountant, not a tax consultant'......... I was going to bring an action against him- when he hospitalised himself for stress (or something similar). The bollox is still practicing- and appears to be held in reasonably high regard locally. Obviously hes not my accountant anymore- I use a firm who also run a tax consultancy- its more expensive- but they're good- and they haven't screwed up.

You're unlikely to get anywhere chasing your accountant- unless its a copper fast case- which doesn't appear to be the case.

Arbiter of Good Taste

The_Conductor wrote: »

I had a similar experience with a local accountant- not in regard the NPPR- but with respect of income which should have been tax free (forestry grants) that the accountant consistently over a 5 year period declared as taxable income at the marginal rate on my tax return. Revenue would only revisit 4 years- so I was down about 6k. The accountant- well his comment was 'I'm an accountant, not a tax consultant'......... I was going to bring an action against him- when he hospitalised himself for stress (or something similar). The bollox is still practicing- and appears to be held in reasonably high regard locally. Obviously hes not my accountant anymore- I use a firm who also run a tax consultancy- its more expensive- but they're good- and they haven't screwed up.

You're unlikely to get anywhere chasing your accountant- unless its a copper fast case- which doesn't appear to be the case.

You've hit the nail on the head. Your average accountant is not a tax advisor. I cringe every time I hear someone say that their accountant is doing their tax return. There are plenty of good tax advisors out there who are reasonably priced - some of them big 4 trained who went out on their own.

Sadler32

Thats it, I agree there are.
The worrying thing is, In my case I specifically choose someone who was a tax consultant, due to the fact I work away at sea, and it can be abit messy. He still managed to blatantly managed to do things wrong.
I was lucky that the figures were all correct and I didnt end up oweing.

I do it all myself now and is pretty straight forward...

muggles

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head. Your average accountant is not a tax advisor. I cringe every time I hear someone say that their accountant is doing their tax return. There are plenty of good tax advisors out there who are reasonably priced - some of them big 4 trained who went out on their own.

But they have some brass neck then taking on engagements in areas in which they are clearly incompetent....and charging for it!! :eek: Taxing that grant was a really stupid error. I've trained in tax and work as a corporate accountant. I wouldn't have the cheek to offer to do anyone else's accounts or tax returns, bar my own, because the areas in which I trained and practice in have absolutely zero relevancy to personal taxation.

Arbiter of Good Taste

muggles wrote: »

But they have some brass neck then taking on engagements in areas in which they are clearly incompetent....and charging for it!! :eek: Taxing that grant was a really stupid error. I've trained in tax and work as a corporate accountant. I wouldn't have the cheek to offer to do anyone else's accounts or tax returns, bar my own, because the areas in which I trained and practice in have absolutely zero relevancy to personal taxation.

See the problem is a lot of accountants think tax is simple. I am a tax advisor with nearly 20 years experience in corporate tax. I would never try and advise an individual on their personal - non-corporate- tax affairs unless it was fairly straightforward. The problem is, unlike auditing, you actually don't need a formal qualification in order to call yourself a tax advisor.

I say to anyone looking for a tax advisor to make sure they have the AITI qualification to be safe. Or there are a couple of trustworthy former colleagues I recommend.