Treat them mean and keep them keen

starlit

diveout wrote: »

That is the exact opposite in my experience, as in COMPLETE reversal in my own series of experiences. Funny that.

The most promiscuous men I have known, and of that ONE was entirely fraudulent and deceptive in how he went about this, the other two were just weak really- hall had their hair, ostensibly low testosterone, didn't like sports, very female brained in some ways. And the friends of mine who are more ostensibly high testosterone, balding, like violent movies, play high risk adrenaline sports, need aggressive outlets, are incredibly loyal fathers and husbands. Weird.

That is weird! So its to do with the brain/testosterone and his interests? A guy can stray for no apparent reason though or stay loyal.

Maximus Alexander

diveout wrote: »

That is the exact opposite in my experience, as in COMPLETE reversal in my own series of experiences. Funny that.

The most promiscuous men I have known, and of that ONE was entirely fraudulent and deceptive in how he went about this, the other two were just weak really- hall had their hair, ostensibly low testosterone, didn't like sports, very female brained in some ways. And the friends of mine who are more ostensibly high testosterone, balding, like violent movies, play high risk adrenaline sports, need aggressive outlets, are incredibly loyal fathers and husbands. Weird.

I'd say that's because all the complexities that make up a modern human personality can't just be boiled down to testosterone levels.

HazDanz

Be honest with what you feel and think towards most people and things will end up okay for you.

That's not being a bad boy or a nice guy - it's just being assertive. It's unfair label this bad boy, nice guy stuff. Makes people out to be caricatures.

diveout

doovdela wrote: »

That is weird! So its to do with the brain/testosterone and his interests? A guy can stray for no apparent reason though or stay loyal.

I have no idea, I was just responding to what Wibbs's said about the studies that were done and how my own experience is very different to that.

Wibbs

diveout wrote: »

I dunno Wibbs, when I was growing up we all wanted to be Linda Carter in Wonder Woman and played it in the playground. We'd spin around and grab a rope and try to lasso someone.

Showing your age... and mine. Plus there are differences between childhood and adult fantasy figures, even of the differences are addons. I mean as a kid I wanted to be James Bond minus the kissing Euuuuggghhh Well I wanted to be an Apollo astronaut. No kissing there, unless Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin are hiding something...

Sex and the City just looks like Jane Austen wrapped up in Dolce and Gabbana.

Very much. Shows hoe long stories have legs.

I really don't know what happened between now and then.

Not much I'd reckon D. More equality, more blurring of roles in daily life so as part of that more "kickass" roles for women in films and media?

steddyeddy

Guys not liking sport does not necessarily equal having low testosterone.

Wibbs

diveout wrote: »

That is the exact opposite in my experience, as in COMPLETE reversal in my own series of experiences. Funny that.

The most promiscuous men I have known, and of that ONE was entirely fraudulent and deceptive in how he went about this, the other two were just weak really- hall had their hair, ostensibly low testosterone, didn't like sports, very female brained in some ways. And the friends of mine who are more ostensibly high testosterone, balding, like violent movies, play high risk adrenaline sports, need aggressive outlets, are incredibly loyal fathers and husbands. Weird.

Oh sure D and as Maximus Alexander said it's far more complex than that. It's just a part of a greater whole.

Plus contrary to popular you can't tell a high testosterone male by using the criteria you mentioned. Male pattern baldness while caused by testosterone, is down to the genetic response of the individuals follicles to the testosterone. A man can have medically low testosterone and still go bald by 20, whereas another man with very high levels can retain his hair into old age. Women can suffer from a form of male pattern baldness after the menopause and their test levels are tiny by comparison(but vitally important). Liking sports and action films isn't a tell either. Plenty of women adore sports, including high risk sports and action films and again have much lower testosterone levels than even the lowest testosterone man. Some general external tells would be in the face. Bigger features, jaw, skull kinda thing. Muscularity would be some part of it, but again not a given. So the non sporty skinny guy with the head of hair in the pub may be running more testosterone than the huge balding bouncer at the door.

You never know, but the promiscuous guys you knew may well have tested higher than average for testosterone. Horniness and the risk taking involved could be an indicator.

Still as was pointed out if it's a factor it's but one of many and depends on the individual.

Gandalph

steddyeddy wrote: »

Guys not liking sport does not necessarily equal having low testosterone.

Biological psychology 101.

diveout

diveout wrote: »

Liking bad boys means you get to be a bitch and not feel bad about it. And you can be commitment/intimacy phobe and hide it. Or you can be a victim. Or you can indulge your pain and deprivation is a virtue complex and feel morally superior. Lots of plusses to bad boys!

Or maybe the girl is just a bit immature or thick or lacking the self esteem to realise they deserve better. Or all of those or some in combination etc.

steddyeddy wrote: »

She works in the lab. Why would I want her to stop sending me naked photos? I like naked women.

Because it's the action of a childish attention seeker, and by giving her the audience she craves, you're validating and perpetuating the behaviour.

And because if you're her superior in work it can wind up looking pretty murky if there's a power imbalance in the workplace.

Or because someone should assume the mantel of the grown-up, and especially so if they want to make moral judgements.

Or enjoy the pictures and the ego boost they give you. Just like her lapdog friend gives her the ego boost she enjoys.

In which case you're playing the same game she is for your own personal gain and should expect to be judged in the same manner that she is.

diveout

Candie wrote: »

Or maybe the girl is just a bit immature or thick or lacking the self esteem to realise they deserve better. Or all of those or some in combination etc.



.

My point was not about labelling her with a judypants morally superior stance, but that if she is sticking around for some mean treatment, there is something in it for her. And that it's worth investigating.

diveout

diveout wrote: »

My point was not about labelling her with a judypants morally superior stance, but that if you are sticking around for some mean treatment, there is something in it for you. And that it's worth investigating.

It's not always something positive (or apparently positive). It can be a reinforcing of a negative self image as well as a validation of a willingness to abdicate responsibility for one's own happiness or well being.

Xios

What ever happened to being a well rounded independant individual who happens to enjoy the company of another well round independant individual

Maximus Alexander

Xios wrote: »

What ever happened to being a well rounded independant individual who happens to enjoy the company of another well round independant individual

Sounds too nice. Hope you're comfortable with last place. :P

Barely There

Xios wrote: »

What ever happened to being a well rounded independant individual who happens to enjoy the company of another well round independant individual

Yeah, like they hang around on the internet.:rolleyes:

Czarcasm

diveout wrote: »

My point was not about labelling her with a judypants morally superior stance, but that if she is sticking around for some mean treatment, there is something in it for her. And that it's worth investigating.

There's not that much to investigate really. Some people thrive on the attention they receive for playing the martyr. This idea that indeed they are morally justified in allowing themselves to be treated like crap because they're working under the misguided impression that people will think they're 'great' for staying in a relationship that's destroying them from the inside out. This is why so often people that think this way will distance themselves from anyone who doesn't shower them with sympathy and doesn't share their martyrdom complex, but rather holds a mirror up to them. These people's need for validation overrides their common sense.

Gandalph

Xios wrote: »

What ever happened to being a well rounded independant individual who happens to enjoy the company of another well round independant individual

That only happens in movies.

AudreyHepburn

If the only way you think you can keep your partner, male or female, keen on you and the relationship is to treat him or her badly than that is a very unhealthy relationship and you both need to get out.

As for the nice guy finishing last....I don't know to be honest.

I do think that nowadays the people who seem get their way all time and get given everything they want are those who kick and scream and treat others so badly that to stop them you just have to bow to their pressure.

Xios

Barely There wrote: »

Yeah, like they hang around on the internet.:rolleyes:

She doesn't, but i'm slowly converting her to the higher path.

timmy880

I once read a quote "nice guys don't finish last boring guys do"

I think it sums it up nicely... I've never like the idea that you've to be an ass to find someone (although you do see alot of unlikeable fellas with absolute worldies) but if you stand in the corner and never make the effort then you will have a tough time finding someone

As for the whole treat them mean thing, well if thats what you have to do to make the relationship be a success, chances are it will fall apart sooner rather than later

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

I wonder how much of this whole thing of "assholes/bitches get the good ones" is down jealousy though? Like you see a guy with a great girl and your initial thought is "you jammy prick"

timmy880

Ya I think there is something in that jealousy thing alright... I can't speak for everyone else but I know I can have a tendency to get jealous of others thinking "lucky bastard" - certainly when I was younger! Working on it though! And quitting Facebook helped

thegreatgonzo

timmy880 wrote: »

I once read a quote "nice guys don't finish last boring guys do"

I think it sums it up nicely... I've never like the idea that you've to be an ass to find someone (although you do see alot of unlikeable fellas with absolute worldies)

Me too. I'm not going to spend my time with someone who bores me, why would anyone?

But a few years ago I met someone through some voluntary work I was doing. He was all about helping the kids and working for the community etc. If you looked nice guy up in the dictionary he'd be the definition. I gave him a chance because he seemed kind and decent. Turned out he was cheating on his girlfriend with me. You can't always spot the bad boy.

timmy880

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Me too. I'm not going to spend my time with someone who bores me, why would anyone?

But a few years ago I met someone through some voluntary work I was doing. He was all about helping the kids and working for the community etc. If you looked nice guy up in the dictionary he'd be the definition. I gave him a chance because he seemed kind and decent. Turned out he was cheating on his girlfriend with me. You can't always spot the bad boy.

Wow......

What an ass!

Peist2007

Gracelyn Enough Robe wrote: »

I wonder how much of this whole thing of "assholes/bitches get the good ones" is down jealousy though? Like you see a guy with a great girl and your initial thought is "you jammy prick"

Genuinely my experience across the board has been that, if you act completely uninterested with a woman, it is easier to get with them. I have gone out with girls from all types of backgrounds and countries and it is the same with them. The lads who laugh at everything they say and nod in agreement etc do a lot worse in my experience.

I think that us men sometimes dont give women enough credit. Most of the girls i am friends with can spot the ass-kissing friendzone dwellers a mile off.

thegreatgonzo

timmy880 wrote: »

Wow......

What an ass!

Yes he was and probably still is. His girlfriend was going through an extremely difficult time that made it an even worse betrayal, I was sickened. Even after it all came out he still tried it on with me for months. Some people think they can justify any sort of bad behaviour.

Czarcasm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Genuinely my experience across the board has been that, if you act completely uninterested with a woman, it is easier to get with them. I have gone out with girls from all types of backgrounds and countries and it is the same with them. The lads who laugh at everything they say and nod in agreement etc do a lot worse in my experience.

I think that us men sometimes dont give women enough credit.

What's this 'us' business? You don't seem to be giving men much credit at all. You also ignore the irony that in your first sentence in which you aren't giving women much credit either.

Most of the girls i am friends with can spot the ass-kissing friendzone dwellers a mile off.

Really?

steddyeddy

Women are far smarter than me when it comes to relationships in fairness. Look at the last two threads I started. I didn't intend this thread to be a moral high ground thread. I don't think being a nice guy or bad guy is wrong. I don't think you can label such carry on with moral terms. I think they fall under human nature which is interesting to me. We are animals at the end of the day.

steddyeddy

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

Me too. I'm not going to spend my time with someone who bores me, why would anyone?

But a few years ago I met someone through some voluntary work I was doing. He was all about helping the kids and working for the community etc. If you looked nice guy up in the dictionary he'd be the definition. I gave him a chance because he seemed kind and decent. Turned out he was cheating on his girlfriend with me. You can't always spot the bad boy.

So true. A lot of the "nice guys" I know are complete players.

Peist2007

Czarcasm wrote: »

What's this 'us' business? You don't seem to be giving men much credit at all. You also ignore the irony that in your first sentence in which you aren't giving women much credit either.

Not necessarily. My earlier posts clearly state my belief that this is more biological than anything else. Women cannot help what they are hardwired to respond to. I wasnt having a go in any shape or form. But hey, knock yourself out.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Really?

Are you being ironic ironically? Give this man a star. Or a life, whichever.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Peist2007 wrote: »

Genuinely my experience across the board has been that, if you act completely uninterested with a woman, it is easier to get with them. I have gone out with girls from all types of backgrounds and countries and it is the same with them. The lads who laugh at everything they say and nod in agreement etc do a lot worse in my experience.

I think that us men sometimes dont give women enough credit. Most of the girls i am friends with can spot the ass-kissing friendzone dwellers a mile off.

Dude, there's a lot of middle ground.

Maximus Alexander

Gracelyn Enough Robe wrote: »

Dude, there's a lot of middle ground.

Are you suggesting healthy and balanced social interaction? That sort of crazy talk is not welcome on the internet!

Peist2007

Gracelyn Enough Robe wrote: »

Dude, there's a lot of middle ground.

There is middle ground yes and i shouldnt have used the word "completely" in hindsight.

SaoirseRose

There's being a 'nice guy' and there's being a doormat, just as there's being assertive and being an asshole.

Doormats aren't hot. Assholes don't last.

A nice guy who is fair but won't take too much **** either is what works for me.

livemusic4life

steddyeddy wrote: »

So true. A lot of the "nice guys" I know are complete players.

My ex = Tall, handsome, educated, well mannered, hard working, lovely family. Turned out to be an insanely jealous, cold, perfectionist, cheating S.O.B.
He always said i was "ridiculous". As Marilyn Monroe said "Its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring".
The girl he cheated on me with, has now dumped him too for being controlling :pac:

No way am I perfect though. I am a volcano when pushed far enough. I'll raise my concerns a few times and if they're dismissed or ignored, then I can't control myself and verbally erupt. That tends to mean that my break ups in the past have ended quite badly, barr two. But i really do have to be pushed to that point. So treating them mean to keep them keen does not work on all women. Some just get to the point where they realise that game playing isn't worth it. If people have to play games to get a girls attention, then they're getting attention for the wrong reasons, and how do they plan to keep the girls attention in the long run? Its just like a child getting attention for negative behaviour. Probably something their mothers should have whalloped out of them when they were kids.

sun structures

Quoting Marilyn Monroe and saying how amazing Adele is are things to watch out for.

Czarcasm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Not necessarily. My earlier posts clearly state my belief that this is more biological than anything else. Women cannot help what they are hardwired to respond to. I wasnt having a go in any shape or form. But hey, knock yourself out.

I know you're not having a go, I'm just surprised you didn't spot the irony is all. I've read your earlier posts and I can see why you might have formed the opinion that all this stuff is biologically "hard wired". I would simply disagree with this assertion. Human beings aren't hard wired for anything, otherwise we would never have adapted and evolved. You make it sound like women are unable to control themselves with your "cannot help what they are hard wired to respond to". They very much can, like any human being who is self-aware. They can choose whether or not to behave in a certain way towards another human being, whereas your 'hard wired' theory allows for the fact that some people can't help but be arse holes - it's not their fault they were 'born that way'. We make allowances for children when their brains aren't matured enough to understand the consequences of their actions, but mature adults, or people who should be expected to behave like mature adults? We expect them to know better. That's why your hard wired theory falls flat on it's arse -

If human beings were hard wired, we'd still be crawling on all fours and I'd just club you over the head rather than listen to your argument. I can choose to override my urges though, because I'm not hard-wired to respond with the first instinct that comes to mind.

Are you being ironic ironically? Give this man a star. Or a life, whichever.

Are you hard-wired to respond in a childish manner when your opinion is challenged? You had the option to respond in a mature fashion, yet you went with your first instinct. I can see why you might think other people cannot help their behaviour, but you'd be wrong.

steddyeddy

I think the shocking thing from this thread is the sexist assertion that men who don't like sports have low testosterone and therefore have "feminine" brains. I presume that women who don't like barbie have high testosterone?

calanus

calanus wrote: »

Mo Farrah seems like a nice guy but he is coming first in all the races so I don't know what to make of it

Please don't bring race into it

aqn29swlgbmiu4

I hate those mind games.
One of my friends would win a gold medal in mind games, the sheer torture she puts lads through.
If the mental abuse could equate to physical abuse, she would go to prison for GBH!

steddyeddy

Florence Colossal Poultry wrote: »

I hate those mind games.
One of my friends would win a gold medal in mind games, the sheer torture she puts lads through.
If the mental abuse could equate to physical abuse, she would go to prison for GBH!

She cleary has issues and is probably hurting herself more.

Wibbs

steddyeddy wrote: »

She cleary has issues and is probably hurting herself more.

Maybe in the long term SE when her charms fade, but currently she's hurting others more.

IME these narcissistic types have fewer issues than you might imagine. Issues in the childhood/background sense I mean.

steddyeddy

Wibbs wrote: »

Maybe in the long term SE when her charms fade, but currently she's hurting others more.

IME these narcissistic types have fewer issues than you might imagine. Issues in the childhood/background sense I mean.

I met two people who I took to be narcissists in my life bother people had nearly caused people who work with them to have breakdowns. Hard hard people to be around.

Wibbs

And that Ed is why they should be scraped off with extreme prejudice. They're wastes of time, soul vampires who need a metaphoric stake through their heart. Let others be sucked dry.

suicide_circus

Women frequently respond well to discipline dispensed by a strict authoritarian.

Maximus Alexander

suicide_circus wrote: »

Women frequently respond well to discipline dispensed by a strict authoritarian.

As indeed do men.

Peist2007

Czarcasm wrote: »

I know you're not having a go, I'm just surprised you didn't spot the irony is all. I've read your earlier posts and I can see why you might have formed the opinion that all this stuff is biologically "hard wired". I would simply disagree with this assertion. Human beings aren't hard wired for anything, otherwise we would never have adapted and evolved. You make it sound like women are unable to control themselves with your "cannot help what they are hard wired to respond to". They very much can, like any human being who is self-aware. They can choose whether or not to behave in a certain way towards another human being, whereas your 'hard wired' theory allows for the fact that some people can't help but be arse holes - it's not their fault they were 'born that way'. We make allowances for children when their brains aren't matured enough to understand the consequences of their actions, but mature adults, or people who should be expected to behave like mature adults? We expect them to know better. That's why your hard wired theory falls flat on it's arse -

If human beings were hard wired, we'd still be crawling on all fours and I'd just club you over the head rather than listen to your argument. I can choose to override my urges though, because I'm not hard-wired to respond with the first instinct that comes to mind.





Are you hard-wired to respond in a childish manner when your opinion is challenged? You had the option to respond in a mature fashion, yet you went with your first instinct. I can see why you might think other people cannot help their behaviour, but you'd be wrong.

I'm sorry but the "still clubbing ourselves over the head" argument is missing the point. In terms of human physical attraction, it is biological. Men and women are hardwired to attract to certain things. I appreciate there is a huge element of nurture that follows the nature but the source of the behaviour will be biological.

With regard to your last point, you inquired in an incredulous tone to a very simple statement. And got your response. So please dont try to be the adult after the rocking horse has bolted

sun structures

After no luck whatsoever with online dating i've taken it upon myself to approach a few girls in public settings. Will report back.

steddyeddy

Wibbs wrote: »

And that Ed is why they should be scraped off with extreme prejudice. They're wastes of time, soul vampires who need a metaphoric stake through their heart. Let others be sucked dry.

Not sucked dry in a good way right?

catallus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not sucked dry in a good way right?

If only!

smash

sun structures wrote: »

After no luck whatsoever with online dating i've taken it upon myself to approach a few girls in public settings. Will report back.

Rember to slap em on the ass and bite your lip as they walk away!