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Complaint upheld against Derek Mooney for 'supporting same-sex marriage' on air

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    #662
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    On what planet is Mooney a journalist?


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    #663
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    On what planet is Mooney a journalist?

    Suppose NUJ are going on the basis that broadcasters & journalists are similiar in that they are a medium of providing news & stories to the public.


    Could also ask the question "On what planet is Mooney a broadcaster?"


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    #664
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    It's a bit odd that the the organisation that the complaint was lodged on behalf of appears to have been dissolved on 23/11/2012 according to published, searchable information from the Companies Registration Office (www.cro.ie)


    FAMILY AND MEDIA ASSOCIATION
    LIMITED
    Registered 04/11/2005
    Status Dissolved
    Effective Date 23/11/2012

    Last AR Date 03/08/2010
    Next AR Date 03/08/2011
    Last Accounts to Date 31/12/2009

    I'm not sure but if the complaint was from a corporate body that doesn't exist, wouldn't that render it invalid anyway ?


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    #665
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,071 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Jake1 wrote: »
    When and where, do you know?

    I'd like to go.

    Thanks
    http://www.activelink.ie/content/community-exchange/events/16780

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #666
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    On what planet is Mooney a journalist?

    On the same planet that any other current affairs / speech based programming broadcaster is deemed to be a journalist. The definition of journalism isn't limited to hard current affairs.

    Their show covers a wide range of issues and is certainly falling into the category of 'current affairs' in the scope of this ruling by the BAI. One could easily describe the team on that show including Derek Mooney as amongst Ireland's most prominent nature/wildlife/environmental journalists and broadcasters, so I can't really see why they wouldn't be covered by the NUJ's remit.

    It's also quite likely that he, or some of his production team are members of the NUJ too.

    I'd also add that the NUJ will generally step in to protect media freedoms.

    I'm sure this ruling will see Ireland slip down the Press Freedom Index too. I'm very disappointed to see the way we've slipped down from a position where we used to be at the very top of that index a few years ago to a rather more mediocre position (still ahead of the UK, France and US, but even so a downward trend isn't good).

    The 'establishment' in Ireland still has a tendency towards censorship that is quite unhealthy in a democracy. I think this overregulation of broadcast is just going to drive more nails into the coffin of TV and radio and push more current affairs online.

    If you look back on the history of broadcasting here in Ireland, until the late 1980s the official attitude was that the Government must control everything. Then it allowed commercial stations but only subject to incredibly tight oversight in case they might undermine the fabric of society or something...

    That's actually the pattern in many EU countries, the UK included.


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    #667
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    It was a silly complaint -move on and get ready for the real fight-the referendum but I might not bother voting if I dont see movement on other issues already outlined


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    #668
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    It was a silly complaint -move on and get ready for the real fight-the referendum but I might not bother voting if I dont see movement on other issues already outlined

    What is important, enormously important, is the principle involved and I think this issue needs to be pursued.


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    #669
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,071 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    It was a silly complaint -move on and get ready for the real fight-the referendum but I might not bother voting if I dont see movement on other issues already outlined

    what? movement on issues such as divorce? fathers custody?

    I dont understand why you would link those unrelated issues.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #670
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    what? movement on issues such as divorce? fathers custody?

    I dont understand why you would link those unrelated issues.

    I dont think they are unrelated. You are about to extend the rights of marriage and that will involve custody of children. the whole institution is flawed . I just might not bother voting . I wouldnt vote no. I would not worry too much-I see this being easily carried.


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    #671
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭Daith


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    I dont think they are unrelated. You are about to extend the rights of marriage and that will involve custody of children. the whole institution is flawed . I just might not bother voting . I wouldnt vote no. I would not worry too much-I see this being easily carried.

    Custody of children in same sex relationships will be dealt with before the referendum.


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    #672
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The 'establishment' in Ireland still has a tendency towards censorship that is quite unhealthy in a democracy. I think this overregulation of broadcast is just going to drive more nails into the coffin of TV and radio and push more current affairs online.
    On what planet is Derek Mooney not part of the establishment.


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    #673
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    On what planet is Derek Mooney not part of the establishment.

    If he is, I would love to know what you think establishment means ...


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    #674
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    To be fair-we are all forced to Pay for Mooneys inflated salary whether we decide to listen to him or not. So he is de facto part of the establishment which is largely right of centre. Bar his sexuality he aint much different from kenny et al in outlook.


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    #675
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    On what planet is Derek Mooney not part of the establishment.

    Being on RTE doesn't make you automatically 'the establishment'


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    #676
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    To be fair-we are all forced to Pay for Mooneys inflated salary whether we decide to listen to him or not. So he is de facto part of the establishment which is largely right of centre. Bar his sexuality he aint much different from kenny et al in outlook.

    So people's 'outlook' makes them part of the establishment ? really ? how odd.

    And on what basis is his salary 'inflated' ?


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    #677
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    Can you name one left wing presenter on RTE? Mooney has access to RTE airwaves-that de facto makes him part of the establishment. The fact trhat he has a huge thread is evidence enough.


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    #678
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Many RTE presenters are pretty left wing in their politics. On air, they are required to be apolitical though to ensure impartiality and to be fair, they do that pretty well almost all the time.

    Also, many RTE presenters (Mooney being an exception as it's a top-rated show in terms of audience reach) are actually paid quite badly and are on rolling contracts. In many cases they're just paid for a specific show and that's it. There are loads of freelancers with no pensions and no guarantee of much at all in all of those organisations.

    The way money's 'divvied up' in RTE isn't really very good, but that's kind of the industry norm in radio and television. Some of the pay rates in radio in general are absolutely abysmal these days. You'd literally want to be doing it for fun and not care about money in a lot of cases.

    RTE's major spend is on permanent staff, most of whom are not presenters or producers. It's very bloated in terms of administration layers.

    I'm not trying to defend RTE's over the top salaries for certain people, but all I'm saying is that the entire media is not 'the establishment' nor is it particularly well paid either.


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    #679
    MrJones1973
    Closed Accounts Posts: 997 ✭✭✭MrJones1973


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Many RTE presenters are pretty left wing in their politics. On air, they are required to be apolitical though to ensure impartiality and to be fair, they do that pretty well almost all the time.

    Also, many RTE presenters (Mooney being an exception as it's a top-rated show in terms of audience reach) are actually paid quite badly and are on rolling contracts. In many cases they're just paid for a specific show and that's it. There are loads of freelancers with no pensions and no guarantee of much at all in all of those organisations.

    The way money's 'divvied up' in RTE isn't really very good, but that's kind of the industry norm in radio and television. Some of the pay rates in radio in general are absolutely abysmal these days. You'd literally want to be doing it for fun and not care about money in a lot of cases.

    RTE's major spend is on permanent staff, most of whom are not presenters or producers. It's very bloated in terms of administration layers.

    I'm not trying to defend RTE's over the top salaries for certain people, but all I'm saying is that the entire media is not 'the establishment' nor is it particularly well paid either.


    Point taken but what left wngers do you note?


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    #680
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    Can you name one left wing presenter on RTE? Mooney has access to RTE airwaves-that de facto makes him part of the establishment. The fact trhat he has a huge thread is evidence enough.

    Ah right ...so if someone is right wing THAT makes them part of the establishment too ?


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    #681
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Mrwhite1970 wrote: »
    Can you name one left wing presenter on RTE? Mooney has access to RTE airwaves-that de facto makes him part of the establishment. The fact trhat he has a huge thread is evidence enough.

    Joe Duffy was President of the USI...that left wing?


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    #682
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Many RTE presenters are pretty left wing in their politics. On air, they are required to be apolitical though to ensure impartiality and to be fair, they do that pretty well almost all the time.

    Also, many RTE presenters (Mooney being an exception as it's a top-rated show in terms of audience reach) are actually paid quite badly and are on rolling contracts. In many cases they're just paid for a specific show and that's it. There are loads of freelancers with no pensions and no guarantee of much at all in all of those organisations.

    The way money's 'divvied up' in RTE isn't really very good, but that's kind of the industry norm in radio and television. Some of the pay rates in radio in general are absolutely abysmal these days. You'd literally want to be doing it for fun and not care about money in a lot of cases.

    RTE's major spend is on permanent staff, most of whom are not presenters or producers. It's very bloated in terms of administration layers.

    I'm not trying to defend RTE's over the top salaries for certain people, but all I'm saying is that the entire media is not 'the establishment' nor is it particularly well paid either.

    You're right. Most 'talent' in RTE are not overpaid at all. The real inflated salaries are in the middle management, which is also hugely bloated and 90% left wing nationalist. That feeds into RTE's news and current affairs which has been distinctly left wing since it's inception.

    The reason radio pays so badly in comparison is firstly because radio has always paid badly and because RTE actually has a lot of competition, so salaries are actuall market rate salaries.


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    #683
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Not to get way off topic, but there is an actual market rate too, as can be seen with RTE Radio 1's loss of Pat Kenny to Newstalk.

    If someone's willing to pay what their agent demands, they'll jump ship.

    At the end of the day, the on air talent is only as good as their last JNLR figures. If they're floundering, they'll get shown the door fairly quickly. That's how it is in the media in general. The other side of it is that if they are pulling in big audiences they'll demand big money and get it or they'll be off somewhere else.


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    #684
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Not to get way off topic, but there is an actual market rate too, as can be seen with RTE Radio 1's loss of Pat Kenny to Newstalk.

    If someone's willing to pay what their agent demands, they'll jump ship.

    At the end of the day, the on air talent is only as good as their last JNLR figures. If they're floundering, they'll get shown the door fairly quickly. That's how it is in the media in general. The other side of it is that if they are pulling in big audiences they'll demand big money and get it or they'll be off somewhere else.

    Mooney loses listeners every month. Is that not floundering? Your set of claims ignore the stickiness of just being on RTE 1.
    There are many people who have the radio tuned to RTE 1 and never change the station. That's one reason why Pat Kenny is has 200,000 fewer listeners than Sean O'Rourke.
    You could put Kim Jong Il on Mooney's slot and he would get more listeners.

    Mooney has more listeners than Moncrieff for example (about 100,000 more) that means that Sean O'Rourke (never a high paid 'star' of RTE) is twice as good as Mooney and that Moncrieff is twice as good as Pat Kenny.

    The real drive to inflate 'star' salaries on RTE is the informal benchmarking of senior management salaries against 'star' salaries.


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    #685
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Piliger wrote: »
    What is important, enormously important, is the principle involved and I think this issue needs to be pursued.

    What principle?


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    #686
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Piliger wrote: »
    If he is, I would love to know what you think establishment means ...

    He is a state employee on a fat salary not connected with merit and it is his job to reassure middle Ireland that all is rosy in the garden. All RTE 'stars' are part of the establishment. What do you imagine that the establishment is?


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    #687
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    He is a state employee on a fat salary not connected with merit and it is his job to reassure middle Ireland that all is rosy in the garden.

    Even if Mooney's job were to mollify listeners, which it isn't, surely he's doing it well?

    If he's doing it well, he's there on merit. What else is it based on?

    To return to my initial point, Mooney is a light entertainment programme, involving cash prizes and some strange 'odd couple' sketch with some wagon who used to be on the Gerry Ryan show. A handful of socially-banjaxed science nerds are occasionally thrown in.

    He's sandwiched between programs that often get people's backs up, because of their political content: Liveline and Drivetime.

    You can't reasonably deny that sometimes light entertainment is just that; a break from more serious material, of which RTE broadcasts plenty.


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    #688
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    He is not entertaining and loses listeners to Moncrieff almost every month. He is just rubbish. I don't know anything about his family but I assume they are connected sort of insider people like Tubridy's. He is without merit as a broadcaster. However though I personally find him annoying he has saved at least two people's lives.
    conorh91 wrote: »
    Even if Mooney's job were to mollify listeners, which it isn't, surely he's doing it well?

    If he's doing it well, he's there on merit. What else is it based on?

    To return to my initial point, Mooney is a light entertainment programme, involving cash prizes and some strange 'odd couple' sketch with some wagon who used to be on the Gerry Ryan show. A handful of socially-banjaxed science nerds are occasionally thrown in.

    He's sandwiched between programs that often get people's backs up, because of their political content: Liveline and Drivetime.

    You can't reasonably deny that sometimes light entertainment is just that; a break from more serious material, of which RTE broadcasts plenty.


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    #689
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    He is a state employee on a fat salary not connected with merit and it is his job to reassure middle Ireland that all is rosy in the garden. All RTE 'stars' are part of the establishment. What do you imagine that the establishment is?
    I find that whole post quite comical from beginning to end.


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    #690
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    We have gone off topic somewhat but just as some people made up their own version of the BAI ruling without feeling the need to read the actual determination, we now have some people making up listenership statistics without referring to the actual real figures.

    http://www.bai.ie/?page_id=142

    I don't see any figure in there for some number of listeners who have their radios stuck permanently on RTE Radio One.


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    #691
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    He is not entertaining and loses listeners to Moncrieff almost every month. He is just rubbish. I don't know anything about his family but I assume they are connected sort of insider people like Tubridy's.
    I don't think he does; he regularly talks about them on the show. Apparently he started in RTE at the bottom of the ladder, and double-jobbed in local radio stations.

    His show has had a substantial net increase in listenership over the past few years; it's been down a bit in the last year or so alright.

    I'm not really a fan of his show, i'm an accidental listener, but some people are fans. I have no idea why. I don't think things are quite as dramatic as you're making out.


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