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Complaint upheld against Derek Mooney for 'supporting same-sex marriage' on air

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    #212
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Childen are always going to be born. Marriage evolved for mostly economic reasons to regulate their upbringing and their inheritance rights. Not every marriage produces children and some children are produced outside of marriage. With SSM couples who want to be biological parents it has no real equivalance in heterosexual marriage. One of the wives/husbands will be a biological parent, their other half won't be, the other biological parent will be a party outside of the marriage.

    The issue around children is a non issue in this referendum as there will be legislayion bought in beforehand.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #213
    sfcdub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭sfcdub


    LorMal wrote: »
    Five replies in rapid succession all slapping me down.
    Sheep.

    Nice of you to defend your point. Oh wait, you didn't. Maybe you can't. So insults instead.

    Pointing out your poor argument doesn't equal 'slapping you down'.


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    #214
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Marriage is a legal instrument. It might make some people happy or unhappy, you won't find that in the legislation. It will become very complicated when SSM couples want to become biological parents. If two wives agree that one of them should get pregnant would it be OK in law for the brother or the father of the other wife to father the child? This sort of thing and surrogacy generally will have to be legislated for.

    There will be legislation bought in well before the referendum.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #215
    loh_oro
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭loh_oro


    LorMal wrote: »
    Five replies in rapid succession all slapping me down.
    Sheep.

    So .... out of stupid reasons then and resorting to insults ?


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    #216
    A Neurotic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭A Neurotic


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    And everyone who does not support SSM is homphobic? Including the hundreds of thousands of people who will vote NO in the referendum?

    Oxford definition of homophobic: dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.

    You would contend that denying a specific group equal rights doesn't count as dislike of or prejudice against that group? Of course those hundreds of thousands are homophobic.
    Packrat wrote: »
    Atheist, Not Homophobic, Against proposed Same sex "marriage" here. We do exist despite yoh wishing that we didn't.

    Dont feel any need to justify my preference to anyone either, so won't be responding to any of the abuse and ridicule which will undoubtedly follow from the 'liberal, progressive, tolerant' majority here.

    What a joke. "I'm not racist but..."


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    #217
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There will be legislation bought in well before the referendum.

    What legislation? There is marriage legislation there already. Isn't that what the campaigners want, gay couples marrying under the existing legislation?


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    #218
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What is unique to SSM couples is that they cannot produce children without a third party, married or not. Heterosexual couples can, married or not. Campaigners for SSM want to have equal marriage rights. But the legislation will have to cover things which have no equivalance in heterosexual marriage.

    It is not simply a matter of allowing two people to be happy. Marriage law is complicated and other people apart from the happy couple can be affected by the legislation. Our friends in Westminster spent much time deciding the issue. Was that just to make two people happy?

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/text/130617-0002.htm

    Are all man and woman couples able to produce a child?
    What does a gay person having a child got to do with marriage?

    We have adam and steve. Amy is Adam's daughter but spent her entire life living with Adam and Steve. One day Adam dies in a tragic accident. Well uh oh, Steve isn't considered a guardian of Amy and she goes into state care as it is difficult to find a couple to adopt an older child. Why do you want Amy to suffer? Dont you care about the children?


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    #219
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Are all man and woman couples able to produce a child?
    What does a gay person having a child got to do with marriage?

    We have adam and steve. Amy is Adam's daughter but spent her entire life living with Adam and Steve. One day Adam dies in a tragic accident. Well uh oh, Steve isn't considered a guardian of Amy and she goes into state care as it is difficult to find a couple to adopt an older child. Why do you want Amy to suffer? Dont you care about the children?

    Who is Amy's mother?


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    #220
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What legislation? There is marriage legislation there already. Isn't that what the campaigners want, gay couples marrying under the existing legislation?

    The legislation you were told about the last time you tried to use this smoke screen.


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    #221
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Who is Amy's mother?

    What about the questions I asked?


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    #222
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    loh_oro wrote: »
    So .... out of stupid reasons then and resorting to insults ?


    Yes, I hate the bullying that goes on here. Group attack on anyone who dares to question the majority view.


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    #223
    loh_oro
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭loh_oro


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes, I hate bullies

    Bullies ?


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    #224
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    loh_oro wrote: »
    Bullies ?

    Don't you know, when people's opinions are in the minority it doesn't matter how wrong they are, fact is they're being bullied :rolleyes:

    Bullies, sheep, liberal media bias, suppressing debate, blah blah: all rolled out as sick-notes to avoid actually defending indefensible views. Taking your ball and going home when the other team is winning.


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    #225
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    So yeah, just after spending about an hour trying to find some fresh reasons people are against gay marriage outside of the usual five to ten reasons (including that whole fear of it leading to people marrying dogs and babies and liquorice allsorts) and it's just the same few over and over but rephrased differently.

    I can't see why anyone would even bother to oppose same sex marriage if they're unwilling to admit they're at least a little bit homophobic, it seems like such a tremendous waste of energy. Either commit full on or get a bit more comfortable with acknowledging your insecurities. I can fully imagine how disorienting it could be for such a major change in public opinion to happen over your lifetime but maybe if you can acknowledge it you might find it a lot easier to get past it all than whatever on earth it is you're doing with them now .


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    #226
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    takamichinoku wrote: »
    So yeah, just after spending about an hour trying to find some fresh reasons people are against gay marriage outside of the usual five to ten reasons (including that whole fear of it leading to people marrying dogs and babies and liquorice allsorts) and it's just the same few over and over but rephrased differently.

    I can't see why anyone would even bother to oppose same sex marriage if they're unwilling to admit they're at least a little bit homophobic, it seems like such a tremendous waste of energy. Either commit full on or get a bit more comfortable with acknowledging your insecurities. I can fully imagine how disorienting it could be for such a major change in public opinion to happen over your lifetime but maybe if you can acknowledge it you might find it a lot easier to get past it all than whatever on earth it is you're doing with them now .

    Is it possible to be a little bit homophobic? How would that work? Anyway this thread started off as a discussion on a ruling by the Broadcasting Authority on a listener complaint. Do you think the BA is homophobic for upholding the complaint?


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    #227
    loh_oro
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭loh_oro


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes, I hate the bullying that goes on here. Group attack on anyone who dares to question the majority view.

    I know its terri ..... oh wait you mean bullying like gay people have been receiving for being "different" and what you are doing by trying to deny them equal rights ? Thats not bullying is it ? Your starting to sound like the Iona institute now picking the "right" kind of bullying to suit your needs


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    #228
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I just find it very odd that the BAI has kind of morphed into some kind of censorship board.

    Do we actually need a Broadcasting Complaints Commission in the first place?

    Who is appointed to it, when did I get to vote for any of them? Why are they making decisions about what presenter can/can't say on air?

    Ireland has a very long and very dark history when it comes to censorship and I would really not like to see us slowly slipping back towards the days when we were pretty much like what Russia is now when it comes to all sorts of weird agencies and boards that banned books, films etc the state-church fusion didn't like.


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    #229
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I just find it very odd that the BAI has kind of morphed into some kind of censorship board.

    Do we actually need a Broadcasting Complaints Commission in the first place?

    Who is appointed to it, when did I get to vote for any of them? Why are they making decisions about what presenter can/can't say on air?

    Ireland has a very long and very dark history when it comes to censorship and I would really not like to see us slowly slipping back towards the days when we were pretty much like what Russia is now when it comes to all sorts of weird agencies and boards that banned books, films etc the state-church fusion didn't like.

    Have a look here.

    http://www.bai.ie/


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    #230
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    I think the impoverishment of this debate is shown by those who can put forward nothing more than "you're wrong",

    A poster who continually evades requests to provide logical, consistent reasons for barring gay couples from marriage shouldn't be throwing proverbial stones about the impoverishment of debate.
    Packrat wrote: »
    Atheist, Not Homophobic, Against proposed Same sex "marriage" here. We do exist despite yoh wishing that we didn't.

    Dont feel any need to justify my preference to anyone either, so won't be responding to any of the abuse and ridicule which will undoubtedly follow from the 'liberal, progressive, tolerant' majority here.

    So what are your reasons for opposing marriage equality?
    LorMal wrote: »
    Five replies in rapid succession all slapping me down.
    Sheep.
    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes, I hate the bullying that goes on here. Group attack on anyone who dares to question the majority view.

    If you think any of the replies you received qualify as "slapping you down" or "bullying", then I don't think you're cut out for debate in a public forum. Like it or not, your position will be challenged, and a certain standard of debate will be expected, even in After Hours.


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    #231
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    What legislation? There is marriage legislation there already. Isn't that what the campaigners want, gay couples marrying under the existing legislation?

    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2014/01/minister-shatter-publishes-general-scheme-of-children-and-family-relationships-bill-for-consultation/?cat=12

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #232
    sfcdub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 30 ✭sfcdub


    LorMal wrote: »
    Yes, I hate the bullying that goes on here. Group attack on anyone who dares to question the majority view.

    Bullying? You're the one who resorted to insults. Only one bully here who wants to get their own way and that's you.
    And denying a certain group of people the same rights because they're different is discrimination. Or bullying if you want to use your word.

    So basically:

    "I want to look down on a section of society for no apparent reason and anyone who tries to use reason against me to debunk my argument is a bully. Wah".


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    #233
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I just find it very odd that the BAI has kind of morphed into some kind of censorship board.

    Do we actually need a Broadcasting Complaints Commission in the first place?

    Who is appointed to it, when did I get to vote for any of them? Why are they making decisions about what presenter can/can't say on air?

    Ireland has a very long and very dark history when it comes to censorship and I would really not like to see us slowly slipping back towards the days when we were pretty much like what Russia is now when it comes to all sorts of weird agencies and boards that banned books, films etc the state-church fusion didn't like.

    This is just so over the top . The Authority ruled that the show had strayed over the line from human interest into currents affairs. We can debate the issue all we want as to its correctness ,but once they reached that conclusion what followed was inevitable .

    And to bring censorship into it in this way is mind boggling , it is the no side that was being censored.

    And the same would have been the case if it was any other current affairs topic. 'You can have all the free speech you want as long as you agree with me' is not free speech.


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    #234
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Packrat wrote: »
    Atheist, Not Homophobic, Against proposed Same sex "marriage" here. We do exist despite yoh wishing that we didn't.

    Dont feel any need to justify my preference to anyone either, so won't be responding to any of the abuse and ridicule which will undoubtedly follow from the 'liberal, progressive, tolerant' majority here.

    Would you mind verifying your atheism by personally denying the existence of the holy spirit?

    It's easy "I deny the existence of the holy spirit"


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    #235
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,046 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/index.php/2014/01/minister-shatter-publishes-general-scheme-of-children-and-family-relationships-bill-for-consultation/?cat=12

    A lot of countries have criminalised surrogacy, especially commercial surrogacy. Depending on the model legislated for here, it may the case that couples will have to get women living in places like Russia or India to carry their babies. Would many Irish women agree to be surrogates? Is there a male equivalent for woman woman marriages?

    I thought the idea was to let gay couples get married under the existing marriage legislation. This does not seem like equality at all.


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    #236
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,072 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    A lot of countries have criminalised surrogacy, especially commercial surrogacy. Depending on the model legislated for here, it may the case that couples will have to get women living in places like Russia or India to carry their babies. Would many Irish women agree to be surrogates? Is there a male equivalent for woman woman marriages?

    I thought the idea was to let gay couples get married under the existing marriage legislation. This does not seem like equality at all.

    You dont understand.

    The rough tinetable is this

    The children and family bill will be law by december 2014

    The equal civil marriage referendum will take place around April (ish) 2015

    So you bringing up the issue of children and adoption etc is completely irrelevant as regardless of the referendum gay couples will be able to adopt.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #237
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    A lot of countries have criminalised surrogacy, especially commercial surrogacy. Depending on the model legislated for here, it may the case that couples will have to get women living in places like Russia or India to carry their babies. Would many Irish women agree to be surrogates? Is there a male equivalent for woman woman marriages?

    I thought the idea was to let gay couples get married under the existing marriage legislation. This does not seem like equality at all.

    Who cares what legislation they get married under , just let them get married. What difference does it make to you or me ?


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    #238
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I thought the idea was to let gay couples get married under the existing marriage legislation. This does not seem like equality at all.

    That's exactly the idea. But existing marriage legislation doesn't account for situations where a child is being by one or more non-biological parent, and there are also gaps where a child is being raised by unmarried parents. Hence the need for the Child & Family Relationships Bill, which applies both to heterosexual couples and gay couples.


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    #239
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You dont understand.

    The rough tinetable is this

    The children and family bill will be law by december 2014

    The equal civil marriage referendum will take place around April (ish) 2015

    So you bringing up the issue of children and adoption etc is completely irrelevant as regardless of the referendum gay couples will be able to adopt.

    It is pointless posting this. This particular 'argument' is the favourite and unlikely to be relinquished due to mere facts. If these facts are acknowledged what 'reason' is left to oppose SSM?


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    #240
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Why are people making this into a religious argument? There are plenty of atheists against same sex marriage.

    Exactly but these are the things you hear again and again from the gay marriage crowd, im not at all religious and im against it.
    As another poster said these people are trying to social engineer peoples views.


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    #241
    loh_oro
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭loh_oro


    JONJO THE MISER wrote: »
    Exactly but these are the things you hear again and again from the gay marriage crowd, im not at all religious and im against it.
    As another poster said these people are trying to social engineer peoples views.

    and this is the crap that we hear from people like you again and again. Care to provide an actual reason ?


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