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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #812
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    The situation and her demands at the time were sworn, witnessed and attested to. The fact that she seems to have changed her story in the interim can be presumably put down to mental trauma, as theres no evidence whatsoever that your conspiracy theory has any basis in fact.


    There is no evidence you know more than the woman who was at the centre of the C case.


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    #813
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    She's still alive, so threat of suicide wasn't real.

    The law worked in this case.

    This sort of heartless gombeenery should have been left back in 1975.


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    #814
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    RobertKK wrote: »
    There is no evidence you know more than the woman who was at the centre of the C case.

    So, tell me. Why is it completely wrong to abort against a woman's will, but perfectly fine to make her have a child against her will?


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    #815
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/08/violation-after-violation-why-did-ireland-force-woman-hunger-strike-bear-her


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    #816
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    There is no evidence you know more than the woman who was at the centre of the C case.


    As above.


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    #817
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    This sort of heartless gombeenery should have been left back in 1975.


    Some things shouldn't be left, but dealt with.


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    #818
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭baldbear


    Why is this information in the public domain? It sounds to me the pro choice side are using this woman for maximum publicity.

    I hope the child involved has a good life.


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    #819
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    The way this woman was treated is a huge national shame. It disgusts me that our own country can be so backward.


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    #820
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    baldbear wrote: »
    Why is this information in the public domain?.


    No idea. I do get the notion that some people think the possibility of a rape victim being given the runaround for 16 Weeks until she could be bullied into a caesarean vile, disgusting and the worst kind of abuse, but that's probably the usual crew who have all them liberal notions.


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    #821
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    green_screen wrote: »
    So, tell me. Why is it completely wrong to abort against a woman's will, but perfectly fine to make her have a child against her will?

    Ask the child.


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    #822
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    baldbear wrote: »
    Why is this information in the public domain? It sounds to me the pro choice side are using this woman for maximum publicity.

    I hope the child involved has a good life.

    What about the woman???


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    #823
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Nodin wrote: »
    No idea. I do get the notion that some people think the possibility of a rape victim being given the runaround for 16 Weeks until she could be bullied into a caesarean vile, disgusting and the worst kind of abuse, but that's probably the usual crew who have all them liberal notions.

    But hey, thank GOD nobody had to deal with the upset of not having full control over someone else's uterus.


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    #824
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    baldbear wrote: »
    Why is this information in the public domain? It sounds to me the pro choice side are using this woman for maximum publicity.

    I hope the child involved has a good life.

    Yeah it would be much better if disgusting mistreatment like this is hidden so pro-lifers don't have to confront reality.


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    #825
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Ask the child.

    I was speaking about the woman, not the foetus/child. AFAIK, I can't ask the foetus/child because he/she/it cannot speak.


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    #826
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    efb wrote: »
    What about the woman???

    In terms of numbers -

    Woman/Girl Value = -20 (base value, may sink)

    De lovely Baby = One Billion

    Therefore yes, 'What about the woman' indeed.


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    #827
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,769 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    green_screen wrote: »
    I was speaking about the woman, not the foetus/child. AFAIK, I can't ask the foetus/child because he/she/it cannot speak.

    Can't speak-doesn't matter.

    Got it.


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    #828
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Ask the child.

    Do you think the child will answer ...?

    It's quite possible that, as a result of being dragged into the world, against its mothers will, when barely viable, the kid could be so badly disabled that they'll never be able to either hear or speak.

    What sort of a life is that? It's certainly not one I'd choose.

    Don't fool yourself by thinking that prospective parents will be queuing up to adopt a physically and mentally disabled child, either. It's sad but it's the way it is.

    And it would be statistically unlikely for a baby born at that early gestation to survive without any long-term disability.

    But sure, who cares (on the anti-choice side?) The poor child may be facing into a lifetime of constant uncertainty and instability and poor health and ongoing medical procedures - the mother might commit suicide a week after getting home from hospital - but who cares, once both mother and baby got through the birth alive, they can forget all about it and move on to the next high-profile case. Forgetting about those real people left behind to deal with the aftermath.


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    #829
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    To the rest of the EU this is just a case of look at those religious maniac Irish living in the 1600s.

    I'd actually point out that being out of line with 99% of the developed world on issues like this has economic implications too.

    If you are the CEO of some IT company and you're thinking about EU HQ locations you may not know an awful lot about Ireland.

    What do you see : rape victims being denied abortions, stories about women being locked up for being pregnant in the 1970s and 80s... Google a little further : contraception illegal in the 1980s...

    I know Ireland's moved to a far more liberal position on most things except abortion where we're mostly in line with Africa and some Latin American quasi dictatorships, however when it comes to selecting a place to live and do business this kind of this is a big red flag for some individuals and companies.

    We're trying to attract some of the world's most talented IT people (many of whom come from outside the EU and and may initially not be able to just hop over to England or continental Europe BTW) yet we're sending out a message by our actions that we've social policies that would make the US Bible Belt look like a bunch of hippies.

    A few years ago we had a government actually implementing blasphemy legislation while asking Google etc to come locate your lovely data centres and operational HQ here...

    You can't be a modern Western European democracy and continue with this church-state corporatism that infringes severely on things that are considered human rights issues in most other similar countries.


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    #830
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Can't speak-doesn't matter.

    Got it.


    You wilfully ignore the opinion of a woman who CAN speak, so you really can't fault someone else for being unable to ascertain the opinion of an unborn child who cannot communicate their opinion at all.


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    #831
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    You wilfully ignore the opinion of a woman who CAN speak, so you really can't fault someone else for being unable to ascertain the opinion of an unborn child who cannot communicate their opinion at all.

    Particularly when its brain is underdeveloped enough it doesnt have one :confused:


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    #832
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Particularly when its brain is underdeveloped enough it doesnt have one :confused:

    Predicted response:
    Oh so what you're saying is you don't care about the disabled? :mad:


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    #833
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Particularly when its brain is underdeveloped enough it doesnt have one :confused:


    Even allowing for the fact that the brain of the unborn child develops to the point where they are capable of consciousness, they still have no awareness of what it is to be born, what the outside world is, what growth and development actually mean, what it even means to exist. They are completely unaware of all these things, yet people who claim to have the ability to speak for the unborn, will ignore the will of the person who is able to speak to them directly.

    If that's not treating a woman merely as an incubation vessel, I don't know what is!


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    #834
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    As above.

    You are saying the woman is telling lies. Even though she has only ever given the same story to the media.


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    #835
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Can't speak-doesn't matter.

    Got it.

    Please tell me where I said the latter part of that misquote.


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    #836
    Derrydoc
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Derrydoc


    This whole case is horrific, I am not particularly pro-life however I have issues with aborting a foetus that is capable of surviving outside of the womb. This lady should have been able to get a termination before she reached this stage.


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    #837
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You are saying the woman is telling lies. Even though she has only ever given the same story to the media.


    She gave a rather different story at the time. Unless you've evidence of mass perjury before the courts, you haven't a leg to stand on.


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    #838
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    baldbear wrote: »
    Why is this information in the public domain? It sounds to me the pro choice side are using this woman for maximum publicity.

    I hope the child involved has a good life.
    Pfft, both sides are obviously going to cite actual cases. What would be the benefit of this case not getting public exposure? The issues with the ambiguities in the current legislation which have arisen here being addressed seems pretty important to both sides imo.

    All that's saying nothing of the "facts" pedaled by numerous pro life groups. I read a load of pro life propaganda against terminating foetuses with fatal abnormalities and other exceptional circumstances last night and some of the misleading statistics and manipulative sstatements disgusted me.


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    #839
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    She gave a rather different story at the time. Unless you've evidence of mass perjury before the courts, you haven't a leg to stand on.

    She was 13 years of age, are you saying she was speaking to the media then?

    Her parents tried to stop the abortion, the state decided for her. She said she didn't want the baby. The state presumed wrongly this meant she wanted to kill her unborn rather than have her born alive.

    You are simply presuming and saying this woman told lies. She knows herself what she meant.


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    #840
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Derrydoc wrote: »
    This whole case is horrific, I am not particularly pro-life however I have issues with aborting a foetus that is capable of surviving outside of the womb. This lady should have been able to get a termination before she reached this stage.

    I'd have grave reservations on inflicting the type of life on somebody that, in all probability, this baby is going to have to endure. I know that some folk will say that all life is precious but is it humane to force such a life on somebody. Either abort before the cutting off point or allow the foetus to develop a bit more than it would at 25 weeks. Delivering the child at 25 weeks when the opportunity was there to abort weeks before is something that strikes me as being particularly barbaric.


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    #841
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    She was 13 years of age, are you saying she was speaking to the media then?

    .

    She had a legal team, it was before the courts numerous times. Stop talking baseless cack or come up with evidence of perjury.


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