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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #902
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    She has the same rights as everyone else, just like everyone else she isn't allowed to end the life of other human beings.

    That's what I said. She's not allowed to kill her unborn baby or whatever emotive label prolifers want to use. I think she should be allowed the option of deciding to kill her unborn child if she doesn't wish to remain pregnant. Like in most normal countries that don't force women to gestate foetuaes against their wishes.


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    #903
    beanie10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭beanie10


    Kiwi in IE wrote:
    That is pathetic, offensive and insensitive, this is a rape case as you well know. However in regard to other cases of unwanted pregnancies, if you and your ilk had your way, Irish women wouldn't have that option either!


    Your post makes no sense. It is not confirmed she was raped so you and all your "ilk" should reserve judgement until suh confirmation exists.


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    #904
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    beanie10 wrote: »
    Your post makes no sense. It is not confirmed she was raped so you and all your "ilk" should reserve judgement until suh confirmation exists.

    Do the circumstances of conception matter as to who can have an abortion?


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    #905
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Its Only Ray Parlour wrote: »
    No, it's a foetus. In its early stages, it's just a bunch of cells. If you are against aborting a bunch of cells, then you must consider women to be mass-murders every month when they're having their period.


    This sort of nonsense only demonstrates a piss poor understanding of basic biology. You do understand the difference between an unfertilised egg and a fertilised egg, right?

    There really is no such thing as just a little bit pregnant - a woman is either pregnant, or she isn't.

    Besides all that, we don't have enough natural resources for our population of 7 billion. When we run low on oil, you'll see plenty of killing when countries invade each other for the last drop.


    Not sure WTF this has to do with anything?


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    #906
    beanie10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭beanie10


    lazygal wrote:
    Do the circumstances of conception matter as to who can have an abortion?


    IMO yes. If she was raped its her choice. If conception ocurred naturally then my original posts stands ie. she should have used contraceptive to avoid all this.


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    #907
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    LiveIsLife wrote: »
    I know there are. But people here were saying the foetus should have been aborted when it was viable outside the womb. I'm asking if they think its acceptable to kill the baby once its outside the womb when a few earlier the before the C-Section the child was still in the womb and they think it should have been aborted. What is so different?

    No I think the point being made by most is that had the foetus been aborted at a much earlier stage, there would have been no need for that dilemma.
    This is what happens in most developed countries, and the situation where the foetus reaches more than 20 weeks rarely occurs.

    I think there is a need for a real referendum to change the constitution once and for all, not legal clauses and convoluted exceptions.
    People need to be asked once and for all if abortion should be legally available here or not, if what is in the constitution is really who they are now, after all the revelations and awakening of the past 50 years.
    Irish society has changed greatly, since the 1980s and before.

    I was reading an article mentioning last night that statistically, less women opt for abortion in countries where it is legally available than in countries where it is illegal, according to the World Health Organisation.
    There is a lot to read on the subject on the Who site, it is of great concern to them medically that abortion is still illegal in some parts of the world.

    How backwards and shameful Ireland is to be counted in that list of countries still denying women the right to choose. How even more shameful when cases like this emerge.


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    #908
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Do you pro lifers really think that a raped woman should be forced to gestate and give birth to a rapists child?

    I'm suprised you're not advocating that legally the rapist must marry her too. That's what the bible says after all!

    What century are you living in? Stop dragging this country into a position of international embarrassment. Not to mention the actual inhumane, barbaric treatment and the suffering of women who find themselves in these positions.


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    #909
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    beanie10 wrote: »
    IMO yes. If she was raped its her choice. If conception ocurred naturally then my original posts stands ie. she should have used contraceptive to avoid all this.

    And if she does use contraception but it fails?


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    #910
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    beanie10 wrote: »
    IMO yes. If she was raped its her choice. If conception ocurred naturally then my original posts stands ie. she should have used contraceptive to avoid all this.

    Why is the unborn allowed to be aborted because it's the product of a rape? Why can you kill that child but not the one conceived because a condom broke or the pill didn't work?


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    #911
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Do you pro lifers really think that a raped woman should be forced to gestate and give birth to a rapists child?

    I'm suprised you're not advocating that legally the rapist must marry her too. That's what the bible says after all!

    What century are you living in? Stop dragging this country into a position of international embarrassment. Not to mention the actual inhumane, barbaric treatment and the suffering of women who find themselves in these positions.
    At least then they're consistent. The ones who only think she should have a choice if she didn't have consenting sex are just anti women having sex and want them punished :rolleyes:


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    #912
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Berserker wrote: »
    Just a point from the medical perspective. If, and that is a MASSIVE if, the lady did not know what an abortion was, it would be explained to her in detail. I find it hard to believe that she didn't know what an abortion was but if she didn't, it would be explained to her, just like any other medical procedure.

    She said she didn't know an abortion would kill her unborn.

    It obviously was not explained.


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    #913
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    beanie10 wrote: »
    Your post makes no sense. It is not confirmed she was raped so you and all your "ilk" should reserve judgement until suh confirmation exists.

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/08/16/without-consent/

    It was also on the front of the Sunday Times. Not the Daily Mail, The Sunday Times.

    She was a rape victim and due to her being an asylum seeker, she was unable to leave the state for an abortion in her first trimester. She applied for permission to get an abortion under the new legislation and the powers that be took their time about it.


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    #914
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    She said she didn't know an abortion would kill her unborn.

    It obviously was not explained.

    [Citation needed]
    Did this woman get "help" from prolifers after her abortion?


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    #915
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    bluewolf wrote: »
    At least then they're consistent. The ones who only think she should have a choice if she didn't have consenting sex are just anti women having sex and want them punished :rolleyes:

    I would rather have a fingernail ripped out than to spend five minutes in a room with some failed abortion who opposes aborting pregnancies caused by rape. Their refrain is usually "The baby is innocent, why are you punishing it?" So is the mother, and you're sentencing her to at least nine months of suffering.

    And of course, what if she gives birth to a boy? He's going to grow up and resemble the man who raped her. Every time she looks at her son is a reminder of that moment her bodily integrity was violated for the first of two times.


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    #916
    beanie10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 466 ✭✭beanie10


    bumper234 wrote:
    And if she does use contraception but it fails?


    Your being pedantic. Using contraceptive will drastically reduce the chances.

    Contraceptives have a 1% failure rate. Out of this failure rate 99% of the its human error ie. taking antibiotics while on the pill, wrongly fitted condom, forgetting to take pill etc.


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    #917
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    beanie10 wrote: »
    Your being pedantic. Using contraceptive will drastically reduce the chances.

    Contraceptives have a 1% failure rate. Out of this failure rate 99% of the its human error ie. taking antibiotics while on the pill, wrongly fitted condom, forgetting to take pill etc.

    Citation needed. I think you'll find the actual failure rate to be much much higher.


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    #918
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Do you pro lifers really think that a raped woman should be forced to gestate and give birth to a rapists child?

    I'm suprised you're not advocating that legally the rapist must marry her too. That's what the bible says after all!

    What century are you living in? Stop dragging this country into a position of international embarrassment. Not to mention the actual inhumane, barbaric treatment and the suffering of women who find themselves in these positions.

    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.


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    #919
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.

    I wonder Robert, if you'd be inclined to blame a woman if they were to miscarry during a pregnancy


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    #920
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.

    Can an unviable fetuse be aborted?


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    #921
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    We could always go back to letting the church take and sell babies (wanted or unwanted) for profit. That's the way god likes it.

    And if they didn't measure up let them die of neglect and chuck their remains in a disused septic tank.

    Couldn't happen of course as the right to life rent a mob would be sure to prevent it and take poor crathurs home .


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    #922
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    [Citation needed]
    Did this woman get "help" from prolifers after her abortion?

    Hardly, she was in state care, she had to apply to escape from the clutches of the state when she turned 18.


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    #923
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Hardly, she was in state care, she had to apply to escape from the clutches of the state when she turned 18.

    How do you know so much about her? What about Caitlin Moran who said her abortion was an easier decision than picking work tops, is her experience as valid as a woman who regrets her abortion?


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    #924
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    beanie10 wrote: »
    Your being pedantic. Using contraceptive will drastically reduce the chances.

    Contraceptives have a 1% failure rate. Out of this failure rate 99% of the its human error ie. taking antibiotics while on the pill, wrongly fitted condom, forgetting to take pill etc.

    But it happens, so the question still stands, what about when contraception fails? A million women on the pill could still produce 10,000 unplanned pregnancies.


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    #925
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.

    This is what I find so gobsmackingly unreal !! So why not together do everything in our power to protect and defend the living instead of wasting our time on 'the unborn' ?


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    #926
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    beanie10 wrote: »
    Your being pedantic. Using contraceptive will drastically reduce the chances.

    Contraceptives have a 1% failure rate. Out of this failure rate 99% of the its human error ie. taking antibiotics while on the pill, wrongly fitted condom, forgetting to take pill etc.
    It's still an unwanted pregnancy that they tried to avoid that happened against her will (her will was to have set and not get pregnant)


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    #927
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    bumper234 wrote: »
    But it happens, so the question still stands, what about when contraception fails? A million women on the pill could still produce 10,000 unplanned pregnancies.

    Even men and women who've undergone sterilization can have a failure rate and conceive.


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    #928
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.

    I can pick list loads of progressive things quite unrelated to the point at hand here too. I won't, because it's silly.

    By the way, if you really want to battle the notion of having antiquated views, you should stick to regressive things, not just static ones or ones that are arguably much better than they were in the past.


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    #929
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    Can an unviable fetuse be aborted?

    Unviable is subjective, a family member of mine was told her unborn would die within hours of being born, it was hinted to her she should consider an abortion by a health worker in Dublin.
    Her own doctor was very supportive and told her once there is life there is hope.
    The child is 8 years old now and off medication, yet it was suggested to her an abortion should be considered given the baby would die just after birth.

    Life shouldn't be discarded like trash.


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    #930
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We are living in a century where millions of unborn lives are killed every year, where those alive in certain parts of the world are beheaded, buried alive, blown to bits, shot dead, throats slit, shooting sprees, slavery, kidnapping, sexual slavery, exploitation, famine, starvation, children dying from diarrhea...
    None of that is progressive, all of the above is wrong.

    This is the century we are living in.

    Lol. Have to love the absolute lack of perspective of the pro-lifers. Just go for broke and say it's the holocaust for god's sake.


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    #931
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Unviable is subjective, a family member of mine was told her unborn would die within hours of being born, it was hinted to her she should consider an abortion by a health worker in Dublin.
    Her own doctor was very supportive and told her once there is life there is hope.
    The child is 8 years old now and off medication, yet it was suggested to her an abortion should be considered given the baby would die just after birth.

    Life shouldn't be discarded like trash.

    How can a foetus with no brain survive outside the womb?


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