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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #992
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    RobertKK wrote: »
    That is always used, very rare, making law based on rare cases leads to bad law.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don't know, Dr Gosnell didn't seem to care.

    ...........?


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    #993
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don't know, Dr Gosnell didn't seem to care.
    and that's why he's in prison.

    I also thought that using exceptions/rarities to legislate made for bad laws according to you.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #994
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    RobertKK wrote: »
    An unwanted pregnancy is only a disaster if one makes it a disaster.

    Wow.

    I am a mother. I became pregnant in March/April 2013, gave birth in January 2014.

    It was an unplanned pregnancy, but I wouldn't describe it as an unwanted pregnancy. Although it wasn't planned, the baby was born into a very loving relationship, and was very much loved from the start.

    But I can categorically state that, while the pregnancy itself was quite happy and smooth, the birth itself has had major consequences for my mental health. And I had no prior issues whatsoever. And I didn't even have anything as traumatic as a C Section or a dangerously premature birth.

    I didn't "make" it a "disaster". The fact that the medical services in this country failed me badly is no fault of my own.

    I honestly can't believe that you're implying that a woman who was violently raped and ended up pregnant, begged for an abortion, was forced to carry the baby to - no, not term - to viability weeks, and then was injected with all kinds of shít to keep the baby alive, was force-fed against her will, was given major abdominal surgery all against her will ... you're saying you think this is OK?

    You're f*cked up.


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    #995
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    'Dr Gosnell' is relevant to this discussion how?

    I wonder if people like him are in the stats, given it is illegal and I assume the stats only cover the legal abortions.


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    #996
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Very rare and using such cases for law equals bad law.

    Just like the X case legislation which is backward where it allows termination of pregnancy for 9 months.
    Bad law means some argue the unborn should be killed as in the current case, that argument means a baby that is a day before being born naturally could be killed in the womb.

    This is what we got from people who thought legislation for the X case was a good idea, it is backward law.


    If you're referring to current irish law, it does not allow for 'killing a baby a day before being born naturally'. But that is precisely the kind of clap trap that was doled out when the government was trying to bring in legislation.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    There are very often natural abortions, not legally allowed by medics under current law.


    I'm sorry, what? What are 'natural abortions'? Are you referring to spontaneous abortions - commonly referred to as miscarriage? What has 'medics allowing' them or the law got to do with it?


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    #997
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I wonder if people like him are in the stats, given it is illegal and I assume the stats only cover the legal abortions.

    My arse. You're just throwing him in to muddy the waters.


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    #998
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Chattastrophe! wrote: »
    Wow.

    I am a mother. I became pregnant in March/April 2013, gave birth in January 2014.

    It was an unplanned pregnancy, but I wouldn't describe it as an unwanted pregnancy. Although it wasn't planned, the baby was born into a very loving relationship, and was very much loved from the start.

    But I can categorically state that, while the pregnancy itself was quite happy and smooth, the birth itself has had major consequences for my mental health. And I had no prior issues whatsoever. And I didn't even have anything as traumatic as a C Section or a dangerously premature birth.

    I didn't "make" it a "disaster". The fact that the medical services in this country failed me badly is no fault of my own.

    I honestly can't believe that you're implying that a woman who was violently raped and ended up pregnant, begged for an abortion, was forced to carry the baby to - no, not term - to viability weeks, and then was injected with all kinds of shít to keep the baby alive, was force-fed against her will, was given major abdominal surgery all against her will ... you're saying you think this is OK?

    You're f*cked up.

    The outcome is two lives and some are making that out to be the bad.
    That is what your last comment should be directed at, the rules are attack the post not the poster.


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    #999
    Awkward Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Awkward Badger


    The guardian picking up the story.

    As pointed out earlier in the thread stuff like this isn't painting Ireland as the modern state it tries to market itself as.

    Edit: Second article on it.

    This bit is particularly interesting.
    The UN's Human Rights Commission described the process of putting a suicidal pregnant woman through a panel of up to seven doctors as "additional mental torture".


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    #1000
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.


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    #1001
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.

    Can you not actually read?


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    #1002
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The outcome is two lives and some are making that out to be the bad.
    That is what your last comment should be directed at, the rules are attack the post not the poster.

    How many times have you been pregnant Robert that you can say it's easier to deal with than an abortion?


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    #1003
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The outcome is two lives and some are making that out to be the bad.
    ...what kind of value do you place on quality of life?


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    #1004
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Sorry if this has been dealt with already, I haven't been in the house all day.

    But I read the Sunday Times today, and am curious to know whether anything new turned up in the Sindo.

    There's no way I'm buying the Sindo, but if any of you have taken that plunge, are they making any divergent claims about this story?


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    #1005
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    My arse. You're just throwing him in to muddy the waters.

    Do the stats cover illegal abortions, he wasn't the only case discovered and one can be sure this safe and legal is just the rubbish it is, safe and legal didn't prevent unsafe and illegal.


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    #1006
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.

    The psychs agreed she was suicidal the medic said the baby could be delivered


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    #1007
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Do the stats cover illegal abortions, he wasn't the only case discovered and one can be sure this safe and legal is just the rubbish it is, safe and legal didn't prevent unsafe and illegal.

    Making them all illegal doesn't prevent unsafe and illegal either


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    #1008
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    takamichinoku wrote: »
    ...what kind of value do you place on quality of life?

    We should do the best for every life to make it as good as possible.

    Killing a life gives it no quality of life...


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    #1009
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We should do the best for every life to make it as good as possible.

    Killing a life gives it no quality of life...

    I take it you are against euthanasia then also


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    #1010
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.

    She was. Hence the story.maybe you should read it?


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    #1011
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,943 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.

    She WAS suicidal! She went on a hunger strike but was forcibly hydrated and THEN they cut her open!


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    #1012
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    I wish everyone well, finished posting in AH for today. Just in case one is expecting a reply.


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    #1013
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Do the stats cover illegal abortions, he wasn't the only case discovered and one can be sure this safe and legal is just the rubbish it is, safe and legal didn't prevent unsafe and illegal.


    More guff?


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    #1014
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.


    She was diagnosed as suicidal.


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    #1015
    Aineoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    RobertKK wrote: »
    We should do the best for every life to make it as good as possible.

    What about the mother's life? What was best for her?


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    #1016
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I wish everyone well, finished posting in AH for today. Just in case one is expecting a reply.

    Not one that answers a question posed anyway.


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    #1017
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.
    So, are you saying that the only people who are actually suicidal are those who successfully kill themselves?

    Good thing Stephen Fry wasn't suicidal when he overdosed on pills a while back.
    "I took a huge number of pills and a huge amount of vodka. The mixture of them made my body convulse so much that I broke four ribs – but I was still unconscious."
    .
    And that time Owen Wilson slit his wrists, he was just spoofing.

    Robin Williams, though. Properly suicidal, right?


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    #1018
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.

    Looking forward to seeing your evidence otherwise you have just won idiotic post of the day


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    #1019
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yet how many are humans killing after the time period you have given?

    Progress is only progress if we learn something from it.


    Robert you're the eternal pessimist when it suits you. How many human beings have survived in the time period I have given that would previously have died in the womb, or died while giving birth, or simply died of natural causes before their 60th birthday?

    I agree with you that progress is only progress if we learn something from it, so what have you learned from this specific case where a pregnant woman who was assessed as a suicide risk was denied an abortion when she asked for it, and was instead forcefully hydrated to keep her alive until her pregnancy became viable, and using modern technology they were able to open her up and remove the child from her womb. The child was then taken into the care of the HSE.

    That doesn't sound like much in the way of progress to me Robert tbh. In fact, it's as if politicians and the HSE have learned nothing from their monstrous fcuk ups of the past.

    Do you find it acceptable that Frances Fitzgerald and Leo Vradkar have said they are "monitoring the situation", " awaiting reports", "cannot comment on individual cases". The only thing they seem to have learned from the past is how to read a cue card, and cover their collective arses.

    That's not progress Robert. That's keeping Ireland stuck in the Dark Ages for as long as they possibly can.


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    #1020
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    The salient point is that the mother wasn't suicidal. She was a spoofer and exactly the kind of person that psychiatric assessment is designed to weed out.

    Great that the baby was born.
    Yeah... you've read none of it, but sure you were too giddy about the possibility of provoking a reaction to do that; no clue why else you'd use the word "spoofer" in a case like this.


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    #1021
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Nodin wrote: »
    She was diagnosed as suicidal.

    In the very first post in this thread, it's stated that the psyches deemed that she was not suicidal.


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