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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #1052
    Aineoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    This is a very, a very emotive issue


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    #1053
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    The post was correct based on the information available at the time. The information was incorrect not the post.


    And you haven't updated your post because............?


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    #1054
    Aineoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    lazygal wrote: »
    I wonder how much help prolifers give the born. They're terrible concerned about the unborn, I wonder what campaigns they run for the born.

    Very good point.


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    #1055
    Aineoil
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    This thread shows you are either pro life or pro choice


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    #1056
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babies etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.


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    #1057
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    You do realise you don't have to believe in God to believe that it is wrong to kill a viable foetus.


    You also don't have to be an atheist to know that inflicting unnecessary suffering upon another human being is inhumane.


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    #1058
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babies etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.

    You do know that you can't just ask for a thread to be closed just because the debate takes a turn you disagree with right?


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    #1059
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babies etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.

    If you don't like the debate it's because you're probably losing the debate.


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    #1060
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,799 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babies etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.

    That misrepresentation of some posters on this thread does nothing to keep up the standard of the discussion. It's a good idea to post to the standards you desire in other posters.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1061
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it.

    How exactly do you expect talk about this legislation in Ireland to not feature the Catholic church? They're the whole reason our laws are so out of step with the developed world.


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    #1062
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Also lads what in the name of blue cheese is a donehy when its at home?


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    #1063
    takamichinoku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭takamichinoku


    SW wrote: »
    That misrepresentation of some posters on this thread does nothing to keep up the standard of the discussion. It's a good idea to post to the standards you desire in other posters.

    Part of me is beginning to enjoy her barely-holding-it-together extreme passive aggression ... you just know it's going to boil over eventually


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    #1064
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I wonder how often pro life people donate blood or bone marrow. Bone marrow is meant to be quite painful to extract but saving a life is worth it right? Or are they only pro life when it's not them that suffers.

    At least that's done voluntarily

    It is very painful


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    #1065
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    P_1 wrote: »
    Also lads what in the name of blue cheese is a donehy when its at home?

    Yer man in 30 Rock, innit? Always braying.


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    #1066
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babe s etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.

    I didn't see anyone posting to say they were disappointed the baby was saved. Moreso that they were disgusted that the woman's choices were undermined, despite her meeting the criteria for an abortion (seemingly).

    Typical that you'd try get one last dig in before the thread ends up closed, though.


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    #1067
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    To give the unborn human being it's chance at life it could be necessary. It's the least bad option when a foetus reaches a stage where it has feelings.

    The point here is that an abortion could have been allowed at a much earlier stage but this poor girl was forced to continue with the pregnancy until it became viable. That is simply outrageous and will have lasting consequences for the girl (who is no doubt extremely traumatised) and the baby who has been taken into care and will presumably face a lot of health issues as a result of such a premature birth.

    Seems to me that the c-section was done at such an early stage 'just in case' the girl might commit suicide. So the experts believed her to be suicidal. Therefore she should have been allowed an abortion as early as possible. The 'experts' made a complete balls of this and the result is suffering for both the girl and the child.


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    #1068
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    I believe abortion should be allowed in the early stages, past 20 weeks is far too late in my opinion.

    The lady in the articles asked for one at 8 weeks gestation, though.


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    #1069
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    To give the unborn human being it's chance at life it could be necessary. It's the least bad option when a foetus reaches a stage where it has feelings.


    No, it should never be necessary. There is enough human suffering in the world without making individuals endure more suffering so we can sleep easier at night. I certainly don't, knowing that the tragic events as reported having transpired in this specific case could so easily have been avoided if the human beings with the power to do so had shown this woman some compassion or some degree of humanity, instead of treating her like animal whose only purpose for existence was to incubate the life growing inside her, for as long as they deemed necessary, before she could be carved open and the unborn child removed from her womb.

    I've heard of Satanic Cults with more compassion for humanity ffs!


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    #1070
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Its damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    If this situation had gotten worse and mother took her own life then they'd both be dead, which could have been a potential outcome here.

    Would that have been a better outcome, rather than giving her an abortion and guaranteeing saving at least one of them?


    If this woman was genuinely suicidal, what makes you think an abortion would have "guaranteed" her survival?


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    #1071
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm asking the mods to close the thread now. The debate was good for a while
    despite one posters determination to bring RCC into it . But now there are shrieking nincompoops braying like donahies about prolifers not donating bone marrow or blood and selling babies etc. So I'll ask them to close it. I hope those so unhappy about the baby being saved will someday find peace and contentment. I hope the mother of the baby finds peace a safe home in Ireland and a long fulfilling life. Good night.

    You want your ball back?


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    #1072
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    The point here is that an abortion could have been allowed at a much earlier stage but this poor girl was forced to continue with the pregnancy until it became viable. That is simply outrageous and will have lasting consequences for the girl (who is no doubt extremely traumatised) and the baby who has been taken into care and will presumably face a lot of health issues as a result of such a premature birth.

    Seems to me that the c-section was done at such an early stage 'just in case' the girl might commit suicide. So the experts believed her to be suicidal. Therefore she should have been allowed an abortion as early as possible. The 'experts' made a complete balls of this and the result is suffering for both the girl and the child.
    Czarcasm wrote: »
    No, it should never be necessary. There is enough human suffering in the world without making individuals endure more suffering so we can sleep easier at night. I certainly don't, knowing that the tragic events as reported having transpired in this specific case could so easily have been avoided if the human beings with the power to do so had shown this woman some compassion or some degree of humanity, instead of treating her like animal whose only purpose for existence was to incubate the life growing inside her, for as long as they deemed necessary, before she could be carved open and the unborn child removed from her womb.

    I've heard of Satanic Cults with more compassion for humanity ffs!

    I'm as upset as anyone at how this case has apparently panned out, but we do not know that she could have had an abortion much earlier. That is speculation. The timeline is not at all clear. I think it's a bit premature to be blaming the 'experts' when we don't know for sure how much they were constrained by circumstances and the law. If we want to blame anything, we can first aim at the constitution. Only changing the constitution will stop this sort of thing happening again.

    green_screen wrote: »
    The lady in the articles asked for one at 8 weeks gestation, though.

    It seems she did ask for an abortion at 8 weeks, but there's no evidence that she was suicidal at that point. It appears from what we know that the application was made much much later, presumably when she was deemed to be suicidal. So according to our laws, she was not allowed an abortion when she first requested one.


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    #1073
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    ...shrieking nincompoops...

    Pot, I'd like to introduce you to kettle, I think you'd really get along.


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    #1074
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    It's not about sleeping easy at night, it's about protecting a foetus that doesn't have a voice in the matter. It's about morality.

    If you think the mother was treated like an animal how do you think a foetus is treated when it's aborted?
    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    Yes and I believe it should be legal at 8 weeks.

    I'm sorry but those two statements do not compute


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    #1075
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    opiniated wrote: »
    If this woman was genuinely suicidal, what makes you think an abortion would have "guaranteed" her survival?

    I would have thought it was obvious, but the reason she was suicidal was because she was pregnant by her rapist and didn't want to give birth to his child.


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    #1076
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Sierra Mountains wrote: »
    You do realise you don't have to believe in God to believe that it is wrong to kill a viable foetus.

    Is it wrong to force a woman to endure pregnancy until it is?


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    #1077
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    opiniated wrote: »
    If this woman was genuinely suicidal, what makes you think an abortion would have "guaranteed" her survival?

    Well keeping her in limbo until the foetus was barely viable outside the womb and then coercing her into a c-section certainly won't help in that regard.

    The cynic in me is wondering if something will now go wrong with her asylum claim as a result of this. Afterall, official Ireland does have form when it comes to exporting tricky social issues.


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    #1078
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ProfessorPlum wrote: »
    It seems she did ask for an abortion at 8 weeks, but there's no evidence that she was suicidal at that point. It appears from what we know that the application was made much much later, presumably when she was deemed to be suicidal. So according to our laws, she was not allowed an abortion when she first requested one.

    If that's the case, all the more reason for abortion to be allowed simply because the woman requests it, up to a certain time period. Indeed the constitution is the issue here, as is the weak government who would rather stick their fingers in their ears than show some leadership and put a referendum to the people.


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    #1079
    Penny Dreadful
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭Penny Dreadful


    green_screen wrote: »
    Except, it's a foetus. Not a child.

    Not if it was viable outside of the uterus. after 24 weeks the baby has a high chance of survival with medical intervention. Stops being a foetus then.


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    #1080
    Molester Stallone II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭Molester Stallone II


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    The post was correct based on the information available at the time. The information was incorrect not the post.

    No, the post was incorrect, you built your whole poor argument on misinformation & you tried to berate anyone who didn't accept it as "the gospel according to mrs byrne"


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    #1081
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Penny Dreadful wrote: »
    Not if it was viable outside of the uterus. after 24 weeks the baby has a high chance of survival with medical intervention. Stops being a foetus then.

    No, technically it's still a foetus. So long as it's not born, it's a foetus, even if it's post term infact.


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