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woman refused abortion - Mod Note in first post.

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    #1262
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are you?

    And that "survey" was conducted by Patricia Casey and other anti choice cronies. No responsible psychiatrists bothered with it.

    I am simply reporting what the experts have said.

    I listened to a doctor on the radio last night who is pro-choice, even he said it is wrong to say abortion is the treatment given the lack of evidence one way or the other.

    You can dismiss to suit your pro-choice views, but you have no evidence to support your view.
    You can attack Patricia Casey but she is far more qualified than you or I with her opinion.


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    #1263
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Shenshen wrote: »
    So the RCC is happy to see both mother and child dead by simply refusing to accept that some women will choose to kill themselves rather than carry an unwanted pregnancy to term?

    Wow.


    So if a woman is suicidal, you get her pregnant so she can have an abortion to treat her suicidal ideation?


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    #1264
    Shenshen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I am simply reporting what the experts have said.

    I listened to a doctor on the radio last night who is pro-choice, even he said it is wrong to say abortion is the treatment given the lack of evidence one way or the other.

    You can dismiss to suit your pro-choice views, but you have no evidence to support your view.
    You can attack Patricia Casey but she is far more qualified than you or I with her opinion.

    Can you please point out what evidence they would be looking for?
    The number of women who actually have killed themselves rather than carry a pregnancy to term vs the number of women who haven't?

    Honestly, just when I thought this couldn't get any more cynical...


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    #1265
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    When should they have killed the child ?


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    #1266
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So if a woman is suicidal, you get her pregnant so she can have an abortion to treat her suicidal ideation?

    Oh wow.


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    #1267
    Shenshen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So if a woman is suicidal, you get her pregnant so she can have an abortion to treat her suicidal ideation?

    How twisted is your mind???

    If a woman becomes suicidal due to an unwanted pregnancy, removing the pregnancy is clearly the first step to get her to recover.
    If a woman is suicidal for other reasons, then your suggested course of action is going to be as efficient as removing the tonsils of a patient with appendicitis.


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    #1268
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    When should they have killed the child ?

    Oh you :rolleyes:


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    #1269
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Can you please point out what evidence they would be looking for?
    The number of women who actually have killed themselves rather than carry a pregnancy to term vs the number of women who haven't?

    Honestly, just when I thought this couldn't get any more cynical...


    Find a psychiatrist to ask this, I am just reporting what 113 psychiatrists out of 127 replied to a survey with.

    I am not an expert so will not pretend to be one just to answer your questions.


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    #1270
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Robert, are you gonna answer any of the questions you skipped out on last night, or was that just an escape tactic because you had no logical answers for them? :)


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    #1271
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Oh you :rolleyes:

    Do you know ?


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    #1272
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So are you a psychiatrist?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/psychiatrists-abortion-legislation-suicide-885632-Apr2013/

    Do you have any surveys that didn't breach best practice guidelines and get shredded by real phsychiatrists?


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    #1273
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    green_screen wrote: »
    Oh wow.

    Yes wow indeed.

    It seems the only treatment for a suicidal woman is an abortion if one was to believe pro-choice people.
    Sure there is no other treatment for suicidal ideation...


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    #1274
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Do you know ?

    No food for you, BAD BOY!


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    #1275
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Yes wow indeed.

    It seems the only treatment for a suicidal woman is an abortion if one was to believe pro-choice people.
    Sure there is no other treatment for suicidal ideation...

    It's nice to see you don't let reality get in the way of your ideas.


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    #1276
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Shenshen wrote: »
    If a woman becomes suicidal due to an unwanted pregnancy, removing the pregnancy is clearly the first step to get her to recover.
    If a woman is suicidal for other reasons, then your suggested course of action is going to be as efficient as removing the tonsils of a patient with appendicitis.

    If I theatened to kill myself unless you were killed, should you be ?


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    #1277
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Sarky wrote: »
    Do you have any surveys that didn't breach best practice guidelines and get shredded by real phsychiatrists?

    The Psychiatrists are fully qualified before you start questioning how real they are.

    Is best practice to have laws not based on evidence?


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    #1278
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    DeadHand wrote: »
    Is the RCC really such a force anymore?

    I think people underestimate the power that they have in this country. If you at the boards of the hospitals in this country, you will see a strong RCC presence. The chairman on the National Maternity hospital is a bishop, iirc. Amongst the political class they still have serious sway. Look at our education system and our media, in which they still have a strong influence. Granted given the percentage of the population the categorised themselves as RC (85%) in the last census, they have grounds to.
    DeadHand wrote: »
    To the majority of Irish politicians gaining and maintaining votes is more important than doing the right thing.

    Two different topics here. Firstly, the right thing in your eyes might not be/is not, in this case, the right things in many other people's eyes. There are many people who would think that not legalising abortion is the right thing. I would like to see euthanasia available; I think it is a persons right but that isn't going to happen.

    Don't get me started on parish pump politics. I would love to see the death of it but that is pure fantasy. Despite the faux-outrage we have witnessed over past few years, it is pretty clear that people still want their local TD at hand to take care of their medical card application, passport issues, council house application. TDs have to do this to get votes. They mightn't agree with it or like it; hell I'd say many of them are driven up the walls by it but it is an absolute must for them. Support for SF had rocketed over the past few years on the back of their parish work. Parish-pump politics is as healthy as it has ever been.


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    #1279
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    The only one instance where this could possibly have anything to do with the RCC is if the woman herself is RC and she chooses to allow that to influence her decision! Otherwise the views of the RCC, their bishops and anyone else representing them, should in an ideal world, be about as relevant to the issue as the views of the administration of Dunnes Stores!


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    #1280
    Shenshen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    If I theatened to kill myself unless you were killed, should you be ?

    Do I live in and off your own body?


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    #1281
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Do I live in and off your own body?

    Lots of people live off my taxes, I don't know if you're one or not. Should you be killed because you do, if I desire it ?


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    #1282
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    I wonder should I use the 'P' word again, like in the last abortion thread.... :D


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    #1283
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,749 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    green_screen wrote: »
    It's nice to see you don't let reality get in the way of your ideas.


    Reality is psychiatrists do a tough job and a majority do not see abortion as a treatment for suicidal ideation.


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    #1284
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    If I theatened to kill myself unless you were killed, should you be ?
    green_screen wrote: »
    I wonder should I use the 'P' word again, like in the last abortion thread.... :D

    You mean parasite?

    It's a valid question in response to him

    Should parasitic worms be allowed to live?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestinal_parasite


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    #1285
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    RobertKK wrote: »
    People voted to give the unborn the right to life.

    In a civilised progressive society this is what one would expect.

    Leaving aside the qualitative comment about civilisation - I'm not sure it is civilised to force people to be pregnant when they don't want to be but that's a wider discussion - the fact is that none of the people who can get pregnant today got to vote on whether the unborn should have the same right to life as their mothers. The relevant referendum from which other referenda were caused, was held in 1983.

    RobertKK wrote: »
    So if a woman is suicidal, you get her pregnant so she can have an abortion to treat her suicidal ideation?

    This is an asinine comment.


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    #1286
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean parasite?

    It's a valid question in response to him

    Should parasitic worms be allowed to live?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestinal_parasite

    Oh god, you've opened up a can of worms now (no pun intended).


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    #1287
    Shenshen
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    Lots of people live off my taxes, I don't know if you're one or not. Should you be killed because you do, if I desire it ?

    I'm not talking about taxes.
    I'm talking about making full use of your body, making you feel physically uncomfortable, using your nutrition, your organs, your blood to sustain my life.

    A corpse has more right to their physical integrity than a living woman in this country.


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    #1288
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I'm not talking about taxes.
    I'm talking about making full use of your body, making you feel physically uncomfortable, using your nutrition, your organs, your blood to sustain my life.

    A corpse has more right to thei physical integrity than a living woman in this country.

    A defenceless child, that has done nothing wrong, also has rights


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    #1289
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Ralphdejones wrote: »
    A defenceless child, that has done nothing wrong, also has rights

    While it's in the uterus, it is not a child.


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    #1290
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    green_screen wrote: »
    Robert, are you gonna answer any of the questions you skipped out on last night, or was that just an escape tactic because you had no logical answers for them? :)

    So, that's a no then?


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    #1291
    Ralphdejones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Ralphdejones


    green_screen wrote: »
    While it's in the uterus, it is not a child.

    So why was the child saved then ?


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